ExH wants more access than I want to give

[SuiteHarmony]

I name-changed a few weeks back ....

I am having a 'family conference' with exH soon to discuss the children, and I am anxious and concerned about how it will go.

I was a SAHM since my eldest was born in 2006. Four kids. I asked H to leave when I found out about his affair in 2014.

At that time, we arranged access 3/14 days, being every second Fri-Mon.

Since early this year, I got a job, and an au pair.

Access is now 4/14, every second Fri-Tues. As H has long holidays (think university terms) he also has approx 5x7 days additional exclusive access.

He wants more. As my children are all 10 and under (youngest is 3), I don't feel that increased overnights are appropriate. I admit that this is tied up with the fact that I feel I have relinquished a huge amount of time with my children due to his selfishness and stupidity.

The job I have enables me to do school drop-offs every morning, and be home by 3.30/4 most days. His doesn't (self-employed).

By choice, I spend my kid nights with the kids. By choice, he would still go out 2/4 of his contact nights.

I have no idea how to communicate in a reasonable way that I have lost enough, and don't want to give more. And that I genuinely feel the kids would have a better outcome from the stability and time I provide. Plus I reared them pretty much single-handedly in the early, demanding years and feel I know them better and they need me more.

I don't know what to do.

boney the issue is he wants more contact and the OP doesn't want this.

She shouldn't have to agree to something she is unhappy with just to stop his unwelcome visits

I agree: the nature of his self employment is ad hoc. His availability to clients is critical to his work. He has periods of intense and urgent activity. Therefore if he had a meeting cancelled, he will text and say, can I do school drop off, and I always say yes - the only exception was about two weeks ago when I had holidays from work and it was a treat for me to walk rather than drive the kids to school.

Do not back down repeatedly when he issues edicts over visits. You can say no.
Please don't be offended but I am sensing you are a doormat. Your time should be your time. You are no longer together. Boundaries are essential.

Sorry, cross post.

The very simple answer is:
He should not be coming into your home. It is unsettling and confusing for the children.
You get a timetable for contact, and stick to it, with a weeks notice at least to vary it.
You do not provide him with childcare during his contact time - he has to pay just as you pay for your Au pair if he needs it.

He probably wants 50:50 to reduce child support, but doesn't want the reality of child care etc.
I know parents who do have 50:50 shared care and it involves a lot of work and compromises (career and where they live) to make it work. He doesn't sound as if he is really up for it.

I think it's obvious you have been and are being reasonable. You've never tried to stop him seeing them (and plenty do) and you are not trying to reduce their time with him. You've also been really flexible in agreeing to extra drop-offs etc so no one could ever say you have been unreasonable and not acted in the best interests of the children.

You're more than entitled to draw the line and stop the home visits and you don't have to concede any more time if you don't feel it is in the best interests of the children.

broodybrooder
She shouldn't have to agree to something she is unhappy with just to stop his unwelcome visits

But this isn't about her its about the children seeing their father, which they seem to want to do (by what the OP posts).

The OP may be upset by "losing time" but that may be a compromise that she has to make.

Sorry to have cross-posted and I'm not good at this phone lark.

To Boney and Broody: I suppose the situation has moved on since my op, in that agreed contact timd has been changed. The holiday season has no doubt heightened tensions for both me and ex. And where I struggle is when non-agreed contact time during 'my scheduled time' such as additional hanging out at Christmas (bearable to a degree) or occasional offers to do school drops (often very helpful) are on occasion welcome to me and on occasion not welcome to me. The issue is that if I express the opinion 'no thanks very much' or 'yes that's great', the only right answer in ExH's eyes is 'yes that's great.' I have not been able to find a 'no thanks' that is acceptable to him.

suite sorry, in my first post I had missed your update but the reason I continued to post was I thought from what you had said you'd agreed to something you didn't want.

boney you're right it's not just about what the OP wants, but just because she is upset about it, it doesn't mean it's all about her. And I haven't seen anywhere in her posts that says they have asked for more time with their dad.

OP has shown that although she really doesn't want to lose time with her children (who does?) she has continued to put their needs first and has facilitated lots of contact with their father and has also been flexible to a point it's made her extremely uncomfortable. That is not a parent putting their needs first, if she's unhappy with the arrangement there's a good chance it's because it's not what she feels is best FOR THEM. Just because he's a great father and has equal parental responsibility, it doesn't mean the children have to divide their time equally. Maybe the father, who destroyed the family, should accept the compromise - one that means he gets his kids for a third of their time during term and half in the holidays.

They are young children who already have lots of time with their father. He's self employed and his work is of an ad hoc nature, there doesn't seem a need to further reduce their time with their mother to suit him.

OP, apologies if I missed the point and you are in fact happy with the new arrangement.

Also, I really do feel for you, I had exactly the same problems saying no to my ex. He was never happy unless I agreed to what he wanted and for a long time I felt that in order to fend off a bid for 50:50 there was no way I could say no to him in other things. I hope you get to a point soon where you realise, you'll never be able to please him unless it's at your own expense and he doesn't need to agree with your 'no' but that really is all you need to say. It's hard at first to just say 'no' and disengage but you get really good with practice.

Good luck, I hope it works out

I think broody is right to be honest. You will never find a way of saying 'no thanks' that is acceptable. Therefore you need to draw clear boundaries around who does what when. You do not have to say yes just because he asks. I don't think he is putting DC needs first, because children need stability and consistency, and he is the one who is having a second life to them, not you (though you are not supposed to say that). Equally it would be helpful to decide what your boundaries are - because saying yes and then no is not helpful either. You are having to decide on requests as they come in (in itself stressful) whereas clarity in advance would help all around. You need to get on without his help in your time if it comes at too high a price for your wellbeing, as DC depend on your wellbeing.

If the dad here wants 50:50, he needs to go to a court and ask for it. It would be premature because he has no idea how the third of term time will work, and as stated, it is not clear it is what DC want or in their interests or how they will settle to the new arrangement.

And reflecting on it boney, you are seeking to condone harassment of the OP. You are not sure what the problem with him is actually? OP said no to a last minute ad hoc request on reasonable grounds, having facilitated extensive contact over the Christmas period and believing she had now some time alone with DC. Not unreasonable.

Dad could have said, okay, thanks, have enjoyed the time already had, see you on the 3rd, have a good New Year. And if he was not happy, sought to regularise holiday contact through family consult. But he already has half the holidays, I think, so already fair. OP has gone over and above what she needed to.

Instead he phones OP five times (three missed calls, two phone conversations) and texts twice. That is, he communicates SEVEN times after the OP has said no to try to get her to change her mind. She posts on here at 2.40 because she is upset and seeking opinions. Instead of being asleep.

OP says it feels like harassment because it is harassment. That in itself, regardless of the wider issues which can be addressed through due process is a problem. Seriously. To be on the receiving end of that kind of behaviour when you say no is a problem.

Do you think he is asking for 50:50 because you won't always agree with him calling in to visit in your home, is it to emotional blackmail or does he genuinely want them 50% of the time?

You are very lucky the au pair is willing to be shared, not sure many would agree to that.

Well said CocoaX

Completely agree CoCoaX

The op is very clear with what the issue is, him asking for ad hoc during her scheduled time and him not accepting that SOMETIMES the answer will be "no". Hence back to what I originally said, no more ad hoc at all - he needs to accept it's not his right to have ad hoc as and when it works for him.

I had complete ad hoc arrangements with my Ex-H and it worked for us because we were both very reasonable about what worked and what didn't, things weren't booked without checking dates first etc. However it was clear that DD lived with me and I was default carer. No controlling, point scoring, maintenance issues went on. It wasn't all plain sailing but I'm grateful we were able to co-parent so well.

Looking at it from the DC point of view, i think that they would be happiest if you and ex could get on well.

that your hand overs were pleasant and about them and not about you/ex

Celaena

That would be nice, wouldn't it?
I just wish someone would convince the twats on the other side.

My experience has been that you stick to your guns, don't let them run over you, and everything becomes more reliable (also better for the children) and respectful and amiable. You agree to everything in the name of peace and it's mayhem because they're never satisfied.

CocoaX
And reflecting on it boney, you are seeking to condone harassment of the OP.

I'm not condoning harassment at all.

You are not sure what the problem with him is actually?

It seems that he is doing what posters are saying (and have said that dads should do) he is going to court to get appointed times to see his children.

This will stop the "harassment" and will stop the "ad hoc" contact.

He's being unreasonable op.

I think you need to tell him that he's welcome to ask to see the kids on an as hoc basis but only if he accepts when you say no. If he carries on harassing you then he will not see them outside of his time .

*ad hoc

contacting OP seven times when she says no is not going to court, though, is it?

I missed the bit where OP said he was going to court. I need to re-read her updates.

I am not finding anything which says he is asking a court to regulate adhoc and informal time, rather than expecting OP to provide and not liking her saying no.

Family conference - additional term time overnights were agreed and he has half the holidays. The discussion above was about him assuming it was okay to intrude on her family time with DC - and then harassing her when she said no. But I don't see where he is seeking extra holiday time through due legal process, rather than seven phone calls and as hoc arrangements.

Though I suspect you don't want to engage with a version of events which does not support your reasonable and wronged unproblematic father narrative.

Anyway, there is lots of good and balanced advice in this thread, and a New Year for new boundaries, which will help both parties, I think.

CocoaX
Though I suspect you don't want to engage with a version of events which does not support your reasonable and wronged unproblematic father narrative.

Ah yes the shutdown clause.

I don't think either is being particularly reasonable.

The OP's view of "I have given up enough"
and the Ex's view of Ad hoc (the OP's terminology) at any time.

IMHO, the way to sort it is going to go through court and get set times that they both stick to.

think you need to tell him that he's welcome to ask to see the kids on an as hoc basis but only if he accepts when you say no. If he carries on harassing you then he will not see them outside of his time .

I had to do exactly that with my exH for a while - We agreed a 50:50 arrangement and he wanted to maintain flexibility to be able to drop off later, see her midweek if there was something he wanted to share etc.

But soon learnt that what he actually wanted was for me to agree to extra time when he asked for it and he had no respect for my own arrangements with DD.

We stuck rigidly to an agreed schedule for several years - down to the minute - which was ridiculous, but the alternative was too much resentment and hostility on both sides.

It was the least worst solution for DD.

Maybe yes, the shut down clause because your logic is somewhat crazy-making.

You say he is going to court, but you mean it is your opinion that is what he should do. Those are different things.

You say you don't see a problem in his behaviour but you are not condoning harassment. Harassment IS the problem with his behaviour.

So yep, shut down as it is spaghetti logic. But in the spirit of peace and goodwill, I think we nonetheless agree that due legal process is the best way forward in such cases.

The above was to boney just to be clear.