ExH wants more access than I want to give

[SuiteHarmony]

I name-changed a few weeks back ....

I am having a 'family conference' with exH soon to discuss the children, and I am anxious and concerned about how it will go.

I was a SAHM since my eldest was born in 2006. Four kids. I asked H to leave when I found out about his affair in 2014.

At that time, we arranged access 3/14 days, being every second Fri-Mon.

Since early this year, I got a job, and an au pair.

Access is now 4/14, every second Fri-Tues. As H has long holidays (think university terms) he also has approx 5x7 days additional exclusive access.

He wants more. As my children are all 10 and under (youngest is 3), I don't feel that increased overnights are appropriate. I admit that this is tied up with the fact that I feel I have relinquished a huge amount of time with my children due to his selfishness and stupidity.

The job I have enables me to do school drop-offs every morning, and be home by 3.30/4 most days. His doesn't (self-employed).

By choice, I spend my kid nights with the kids. By choice, he would still go out 2/4 of his contact nights.

I have no idea how to communicate in a reasonable way that I have lost enough, and don't want to give more. And that I genuinely feel the kids would have a better outcome from the stability and time I provide. Plus I reared them pretty much single-handedly in the early, demanding years and feel I know them better and they need me more.

I don't know what to do.

Maintenance is completely irrelevant. And do not ask the children what they want or feel; that is grotesquely unfair on them because it puts them in an invidious situation, where they have to choose between their parents.

Well perhaps, but don't you think holding them to a prior arrangement, until a proper judgement can be made, is, effectively, treating them equally? Otherwise, the court would be picking one over the other, surely.

OP here again.

Thanks for all the insights. I appreciate the posters who acknowledged this is hard for me, because it is genuinely hard for me. It is hard to be selfless and to park my personal issues. It is hard to witness the children's upset. It is hard to find myself negotiating with someone who is a professional negotiator (lawyer) and to fear being out-argued. I am really not trying to make this about me, but I do genuinely find it hard to reconcile the demands of marriage breakup and co-parenting. So I appreciate the thoughts that have been presented to me, and I really am grateful to those who recognise my personal difficulty. I do also appreciate the input of those who see things differently to me, because I find it hard to hear those opinions from ExH but can listen to them more objectively from non-involved parties.

I feel for you. I really do.

Perhaps this is a wake-up call to deal with your resentment towards him. Because it is the most awful thing to bring into our lives, a real killer (and not just figuratively).

I'm not saying burning, justifiable, resentment is easy to get rid of. We all have innate sense of justice; it's one faulty step that shackles us to wanting to see justice done. = resentment. I have a PhD in resentment, so it's not as if I don't know how difficult it is to tackle it. But I do know (now) to work towards getting it out of my life. It really isn't worth the catastrophic damage it does.

It's a process though. Just head in that direction and take it a day at a time. Perhaps this horrible situation has forced a kick-start

I really appreciate your empathy, springydaffs. I don't find this easy.

I am not sure about the issue if 50/50 but I do think that the current arrangement is not as beneficial for the children as it could've. They need to see both parents each week. It is about what is best for them. Not what you will let him have/have had taken from you. I think he should have them for 1 or two nights in the week and EOW. That surely would facilitate a better relationship with their dad. And that is really important.

You are obviously very upset and angry. I totally understand that but I do think it may help if you had some out if house activities. Your worth and self seem wholly wrapped up in your children. That isn't always healthy. Perhaps going out to a group or activity on one of his nights might bring you some relaxation or distraction.

And I would struggle SO MUCH being selfless and not grudge bearing or becoming bitter. I genuinely am not trying to kick you when you are down

You can potentially use it to your advantage. If he has them overnight on the night of your hobby, you have no problem going. He will need to provide cover and cannot be inconsistent, as he is the primary care giver on that night.

Op I know this is hard.
I've been there
But for a minute reverse the roles.
Let's say he had been the sahp in the early days .

Would you consider his current access acceptable to YOU?

My kids live 50 50 with their dad. It works brilliantly. They changeover every Sunday night. Everyone is happy and it couldn't be fairer.

Please don't rule it out .
Good luck x

Can I ask why you think he wants to increase access?

Is there a compromise in here... An overnight midweek on the week he doesn't have them.

My other half has Thursday nights as well as EOW. It works well as there isn't too much going backwards and forwards, which is nice for the children. They have one night one week and a long weekend the other week. It is a good compromise set up that seems to be the right balance for his children.

Just wanted to give an update:

We had a meeting at which I agreed that from February the children would stay with him every second Friday - Wednesday morning.

The loss I feel is very substantial. But I suck it up.

Over the Christmas holidays, the children have been staying in my house but exdh had had extensive contact 23-29th Dec, in that either he had brought the kids out or he has been here on all bar one of these days. By extensive, I mean 4-8 hours depending on the day, including shared visits to the beach and panto.

Tonight I got a text:
I'm going to be away for a few days...would it be OK if I came up tomorrow morning and had breakfast with the children?

Me at the end of my tether replied:

I really want a bit of time on my own with them if it's okay with you. We have had a lot of shared time over the last week.

Cue three missed calls and two texts and two phone calls over my obstinance. He had ample opportunity to arrange this in advance, but did not say so (we had only parted company at about 6.30pn.)

So I reacted negatively and defensively. For perspective, he has the children away on a holiday from 3-8 Jan. So 'his' time I do not intrude upon, but when the children are with me, I end up fitting him into our plans. The thing is, I like our plans to be fluid, something Exdh cannot understand therefore assumes we are doing 'nothing.'

No matter what I say, I feel I am the bad guy if I do not facilitate access time on 'my' time. I feel stressed and awkward when we have pretend happy family time; he thinks it is lovely.

I just want to be let alone and to find my feet with the kids while I'm off work.

I have read this thread with interest as I also work in this area. It can help to remember there is no "right" arrangement. Yes lots do 50/50 or eow but for your family another permutation may work better. The Friday to Wednesday every second week isn't something you're comfortable with obviously, and it's a long time away from you: and equally it may be that his popping over all the time and getting in your hair signals he is needing to see them in between fortnights. I wonder if you've turned your minds to something like 3/4/4/3 which gives less of a gap and could work well if you live nearby each other. For smaller children 3 to 4 days max between visits is long enough. Some families manage it quite well with Monday Tuesday with Mum, Wednesday Thursday with dad, and alternating weekends. That way you can schedule clubs on days they are always with you, etc.

Why has he had so much contact with you 23-29 when he has the children 3-8 January, presumably as his holiday contact? I understand Christmas Eve OR Christmas Day, but 23-29 is a week.

Why are you doing shared visits if you want time and contact to yourself?

Okay, he is probably very persuasive and says it is in the best interests of the children, and you probably fear a court action where he will get 50:50 rather than 6/14 - but you are separated and the holiday contact should be regulated in the same way as the term time contact. He has 5 days, if he wants more, that should be properly discussed and agreed in advance. Otherwise, you should be able to pop along 4-8 hours a day 3-8 January.

Deep breath. Work out what you believe would work best for the children and you in terms of their day to day life. If it is regular contact with their dad, then there are many options to be creative with time whilst maintaining a secure base for DC. But if you are happy with the agreed contact bar the holiday situation then you need to go back and negotiate that issue. If he bombards you with correspondence when he does not get his own way, then I suggest you need something watertight.

He put his own needs first with the affair. You cannot bring that to the table as it is not DC fault. But you can argue that separated means separated and you have a right to family and holiday time which does not include him. Agree holiday plans which you both commit to in advance and then it is clear.

Good luck

And next time leave out the 'if it is okay with you'.

You are not asking his permission for time alone with the children. It IS your time alone with the children, as his is! Set boundaries. He sounds like the type of person who will take every opportunity to have things his way.

Wow that's controlling. He got more time yet a few hours later he's insisting on having more adhoc time to inconvenience you? Sod that.

Stick to your boundaries. Not the "reasonable for him" boundary but the "reasonable for you" boundary.

Log the calls and texts and everything else which comes your way when you start to stand up to him and say no. Note that the stress kept you awake till at least 2.40 (presuming that you are in the U.K.). Keep a journal so you can demonstrate, if you need to, the impact of his bullying. Saying no, as you did, was reasonable. He does not have a right to come and go in your house as he pleases, if you do not wish this.

Sorry for the multiple messages

Put yourself and your children's needs first. ExH sounds rather manipulative and entitled

You don't need to share your time with the kids or your space with him. That is stepping over the boundaries if you don't want him to, and to not want him to is perfectly reasonable. I split from my dds dad when she was 6 months old and there was no way I would have had him popping in and out at dinner and bath times and whatever else (and we had been together nearly 7 years living together before that etc). Nope he had his times of contact, I would get her ready to go and he would pick her up and take her off. That's normal. So on your contact times you're perfectly entitled to say no, sorry this is my time with the dc it's not convenient. He has a lot of time with them compared to a lot of non resident parents.

I think the OP sounds like she is concerned for the children, not point scoring.

Would it work if he had some of the children some of the time, allowing each of you some more focused time with the remaining children? It could end up fifty fifty, but they would not all go at the same time. You could do things more age appropriately then.

That would be a good thing for the children, as well as what he wants.

Rather than every second Fri - through Wed, the same amount of nights would be Fri- Mon EOW, and then one night in the week (say Wed overnight) where he picks up from school /nursery and takes on the Thursday morning. Then he is seeing them each week so not having a huge gap without seeing them, and you can arrange an activity Wed evening which you know will be covered. This worked very well for me when my DC's small. I enjoyed having the Wed evening, and the kids enjoyed going to their Dads.

I left my husband a few years ago , when I left he said I'd never see my children again.
Having to fight through courts to see my kids was utterly soul destroying , to me it wasn't about taking time away from him it was about me seeing my kids. To him it was about punishing me for leaving him.
9 years on things are still strained with him although one child now lives with me as he wanted his own time once he got the first of many girlfriends.
Eldest child is now an adult and I see him as and when , he knows his dad went out of his way to be as difficult and he also knows I adore him.

Please try to be as kind as you can towards the other parent , I've been on the other side and it's heart breaking xx

I think there have been some pretty harsh comments here op. One size fits all does not work, children are individuals and only you know how your children will react to increased contact. We are not talking about someone else's children.

I know how hard it is to be under pressure to agree to arrangements you (and your children before anyone jumps on this) feel uncomfortable with. I have been in a situation where a solicitor actually agreed with the other parties representative an arrangement we could not adhere to. He was fuming when I told him to go back and start again. It would have been easier to walk away because the pressure is so great. Anyone who has not been in that situation would find it very hard to understand.

I am a gp carer with both parents wanting contact time so it is doubly complex.

The father of one gs has eow contact. This has not changed for ten years even though he has been back to court countless times which has truly damaged the sense of security of my poor gs who has been terrified he would be forced into more contact.

Contact is the right of the child we are always told, but what about miserable, cold, enforced contact year in year out when a child is very unhappy, a gifted child who has turned down opportunities because he knows of the uproar it would cause on the contact front.

In our case it was about "winning" contact and he frequently absents himself at contact times when anything more important crops up.

Whilst you have been told op that it is not about you, well yes it is. As a Circuit Judge stated in our case when refusing extra contact and changing the terms of the original order (not on our application by the way) an issue which causes enormous stress to a primary carer does pass to the children and therefore can be a factor in balancing the outcome of the case.

There is also the issue of not really knowing where you are with arrangements. I think ad hoc contact for say his birthday is fine but it has to be reciprocal. You are struggling to maintain your boundaries and feel very pressured by someone whose negotiating skills you believe are greater than your own.

Could a good friend or family member who understands that you want the best for your family be present at your family discussion? I wish you luck.

Fairylea: "He has a lot of time with them compared to a lot of non resident parents."

So bloody what?! You're going to compare based on the worst case (which, let's face it, is pretty grim)? I doubt any halfway decent parent would be happy with the & one week night arrangement which has been the norm for so long. Try putting yourself into the other parent's shoes - they're just as miserable at not seeing their kids for the little stuff (bath times, homework, clubs, school pick up, having friends round, putting them to bed etc) as you are when the kids are away from you for a two week holiday. How you feel during those two weeks is, for a non-RP, exactly what they go through EVERY week.

OP - it sounds like you're at least trying to be empathetic, which is a big step up from some RPs. If "your" time with the children has got too blurred for your liking then you're perfectly within your rights to tell him so, but I doubt very much that he's doing it to cause you problems, and please don't knee-jerk into a situation where there's absolutely no flexibility at all. You're still getting the lion's share of time with (both of) your children, after all.

Sorry I missed your update op. Please remember that you can also "request" to change arrangements and they are not set in stone.