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Original poster

Is being cajoled into having sex rape?

108 replies

ThomasRichard · 06/12/2016 20:26

I'm just looking for opinions as I think through what happened in my marriage (now over). I don't want to minimise anyone's experiences of sexual assault but I was wondering whether what exH used to do was rape or not so I have it straight in my own head. He was emotionally and financially abusive and as a result I didn't feel like sleeping with him very often, although still at least once a week. He didn't think this was enough and used to get into bed when I was trying to read a book or go to sleep and cajole me into having sex with him. It didn't matter what I said, he just wouldn't leave me alone unless I either gave in and had sex just to stop the nagging (which was the outcome most of the time) or snapped at him, at which point he'd sulk and go on about how I wasn't being fair. I didn't want to have sex on any of those occasions but was my 'giving in' consent, even though I'd made it clear that I didn't want to?

OP posts:
5000candlesinthewind · 06/12/2016 20:28

Technically it wasn't rape in my opinion.
Still really shitty and abusive of him though.

Hassled · 06/12/2016 20:29

No, your "giving in" wasn't consent. It's sex by coercion. I'm sorry this happened to you.

BobbieDog · 06/12/2016 20:30

Its not rape in my opinion but it wasnt very nice of him to do.

6demandingchildren · 06/12/2016 20:31

Someone I know is in prison for this as the cps said it was rape

ALaughAMinute · 06/12/2016 20:31

I would say that "giving in" was a form of consent whether you wanted it or not, so no, I don't think it was rape.

BumDNC · 06/12/2016 20:34

The rape I experienced was a bit like this. I was under the age of consent and he was an older boyfriend. It wasn't violent. He didn't hurt me. But I said I didn't want to over and over and over and nothing I said made him stop trying, he was just cajoling and cajoling so I gave in - I couldn't leave because i was in a car. There was no other option I felt at that moment. The whole time I just lay there hoping for it to be over.
It wasn't until a long time later I really remembered quite how awful I felt just with my eyes closed but then I made sure I never saw him again so I can't imagine how it would feel to be living with that person and it happen over and over for years. I thought that it was my own fault for getting in the car and after all he was my boyfriend, why not have sex with him but I said no repeatedly, and he made it impossible to say no. So it wasn't sex with consent for either of us really was it? I realise now that abuse isn't always violent. But it's violating

Smartleatherbag · 06/12/2016 20:36

Legally, I do not know. But yes, I'd say that it was rape. My first boyfriend was like this.

stitchglitched · 06/12/2016 20:37

The law states that your husband had to have reasonable belief that you were consenting. The fact that he was harrassing you until you gave in shows that he knew you didn't want to do it. Therefore no reasonable belief, therefore rape IMO.

stitchglitched · 06/12/2016 20:38

Just to add, really sorry for what you went through.

BumDNC · 06/12/2016 20:39

I think a misconception is that all sexual assaults are violent and this is why consent is so blurry. Coercion is awful, when you know someone and you trusted them and you know they will not give up until they get it, you can find yourself in an impossible situation. You give in and you are giving them the green light but if you don't, the idea at the back of my mind was will he hurt me? What if he kills me? He could easily.

Original poster
ThomasRichard · 06/12/2016 20:55

So sorry you others who have experienced this Flowers

A quick google of sexual coercion came up with this site which explains very clearly what I experienced. This site says that sexual coercion is rape in U.K. law but I can't verify it.

Thankyou Hassled for the terminology.

OP posts:
Trifleorbust · 06/12/2016 21:19

No. Cajoling isn't coercion.

whatminniedidnext · 06/12/2016 22:34

ThomasRichard my ex was exactly the same (and emotionally and financially abusive). Technically I find it hard to use the word "rape" to describe it, as I did consent, and he was not violent during sex. However, I think it is sexual coercion and so I think it is sexually abusive. Not rape but certainly inappropriate. No means no! They should back off.

It hasn't put me off sex going forward, but I used to dread it. Ultimately sex is another way abusive men control you.

BumDNC · 06/12/2016 22:47

Possibly legally I think it would hinge on things such as:
Did you feel trapped
Did you feel threatened (underlying threat even if not verbalised)
Were you afraid of using physical force or a forceful no
Then possibly there is a distinction between sexual abuse and rape but they are both unacceptable even if not equitable. I was trapped and scared but I said yes to get it to be over. Any man who ignores even one signal or verbal cue of 'no' has abused a woman IMO - even if she later gives in. It's not a game

RolfsBabyGrand · 06/12/2016 23:01

My ex was the same. Constant pestering. Always mistook a hug or kiss for invitation to have sex. Sulked if I didn't want to and hinted at leaving me. I would dread holidays cos I knew he'd expect sex every day or ruin whole time with mood. I loved the week of my period cos he wouldn't come near me. I would literally lie there with my eyes tight shut hoping it'd be over. He did leave for OW after all - still tries to initiate sex when he collects DS, I never would but feel like I have to let him down gently in case he starts using DS as a weapon. So he's still manipulating me. He was the only man I ever slept with so now the thought of sex makes me cringe.

2rebecca · 07/12/2016 08:46

I wouldn't say it was rape but it was sexually abusive behaviour.
You could have just told him that sex once a week was enough for you and had a proper discussion about your mismatched sex drives though.
It's difficult if the one who wants sex least always gets their own way, particularly if this isn't properly discussed.
To me sex is an important part of marriage.
Some people seem to think marriage can just change in to an asexual friendship without any proper discussion.
In this case it sounds as though you didn't want sex with him any more because you didn't like him as a person any more. This is the discussion you should have been having with him rather than making it all about sex.
I think that if you view sex as a chore you probably should end the relationship.
Expecting to have an exclusive sexual relationship with someone with very little sex is unrealistic.

Original poster
ThomasRichard · 07/12/2016 08:56

2rebecca I'd had the conversation with him - and counselling - about why I didn't really feel like sleeping with someone who treated me with such a lack of respect but as so many women are I felt trapped in an abusive relationship and it took me a long time to see that it wasn't ever going to change. I agree with you that sex is an important part of marriage and there were plenty of times when I wasn't really up for it but willingly agreed to have sex because of that. I'm not talking about those times but the other times when I really didn't want to have sex and was pestered and pawed until it was easier and quicker just to let him have his way so that he would leave me alone and I could go to sleep.

From the 'love is respect' website I linked to earlier, these are some of the examples of sexual coercion and what I experienced (bold):

Make you feel like you owe them — ex. Because you’re in a relationship, because you’ve had sex before, because they spent money on you or bought you a gift, because you go home with them yes*
•Give you compliments that sound extreme or insincere as an attempt to get you to agree to something yes
•Badger you, yell at you or hold you down yes
•Give you drugs and alcohol to loosen up your inhibitions no
•Play on the fact that you’re in a relationship, saying things such as: “Sex is the way to prove your love for me” or “If I don’t get sex from you I’ll get it somewhere else” yes
•React negatively (with sadness, anger or resentment) if you say no or don’t immediately agree to something yes
•Continue to pressure you after you say no yes
•Make you feel threatened or afraid of what might happen if you say no no
•Try to normalize their sexual expectations: ex. “I need it, I’m a guy.” yes

OP posts:
2rebecca · 07/12/2016 09:03

What difference does it make to you if you decide it was rape? Is turning yourself in to a victim important? Are you going to prosecute him?
I'm not sure what the point of this is.
It wasn't a good relationship for many reasons by the sound of it. I'm not sure what good focussing on the times when you had sex with him but didn't really want to does.
The relationship is over.

PoldarksBreeches · 07/12/2016 09:11

Lots of misunderstandings of consent on this thread
Cajoling absolutely is coercion if the cajoling includes refusing to allow the victim to go to sleep or being emotionally abusive if the victim doesn't give in.
Coerced consent, i.e. Consent which is only given because the alternative is worse than unwanted sex isn't consent. Sex without consent is rape. It's not that difficult to understand.

OnTheRise · 07/12/2016 09:29

No. Cajoling isn't coercion.

Actually, that's exactly what it is.

What difference does it make to you if you decide it was rape? Is turning yourself in to a victim important?

Seriously? "Turning yourself into a victim"? The OP wants to understand what happened. She's not turning herself into a victim: her ex-partner did that when he raped her, by coercing her into having sex. The OP is not at fault for anything.

Itwasthenandstillis · 07/12/2016 09:44

I had a very similar experience to BumDMC
Same emotions about blaming myself.
I was cajoled/coerced/a stronger word would be more appropriate (whatever you want to call it) into having sex with a boy I went out with once or twice when I was about 18. I didn't consider it to be rape at the time, but the impact it had on me emotionally - and still has today - makes it clear in my mind that it was rape. I was raped even though he didn't physically force himself on me. I had repeatedly said no and clearly I didn't want it. I do remember though being at the point where I was feeling frightened about what would happen if I didn't give in. To the OP - if you feel raped then it was rape. If you want to take some legal action then you need to get legal advice.

MrsBertBibby · 07/12/2016 09:47

It's pretty staggering to accuse someone of turning themselves into a victim of rape. Only rapists make you into a victim of rape, and to my mind, if you have to wonder whether sex was rape, then you have all the answer you need.

Enthusiastic consent is the minimum any decent person should require for sex.

I think "cajole" is the wrong word to use. Cajoling, to me, is about enticing, encouraging. It isn't about acting like some entitled fucking freak, which is what the OP describes.

Itwasthenandstillis · 07/12/2016 09:49

RolfsBabyGrand - so sorry to read your post. It sounds as if he is still trying to control you. Can you organise the hand over of DS without having contact with him?

Itwasthenandstillis · 07/12/2016 09:50

I am still trying to process what 2rebeca has said in her post......... Shock Sad

Inthenick · 07/12/2016 09:57

It's a very tricky one because I quite like to be cajoled. There is usually a gap while you get warmed up where you're half thinking no thanks if you are not the instigator. But I've never felt harassed. If I actually outright said, sorry babe, not now, he would back off instantly. Maybe that is the difference. I know I have the power to make him stop anytime.