i am worried my mother has a sadistic streak

[Elasticbandaided]

I had what anyone would think was a normal, happy childhood. Yet I have been diagnosed as an adult with attachment disorder, depression and phobias. I have memories of mainly emotional and (some) physical abuse which does not match any of the recollections of my parents.

One of the main things I recall from my childhood is my mother deliberately frightening me as a toddler and throughout childhood. If she knew that something frightened me, it seemed like she would cause it to happen, then shame me when I had a frightened, panic attack or anxious response to it. As I got older I used to challenge her and she would laugh - "why would I do that to you? I'm your mother." But she would do it over and over again until I had to try very hard to pretend it didn't frighten me anymore, just so she would stop doing it. I just dealt with the feelings of terror / helplessness by myself, turned them inward and dissociated.

This was very hard to understand and very confusing as a child. It's hard to believe that your own mother wants to cause you fear and emotional pain, so you and everyone else put it down to something else, or a series of accidents or crossed wires. And I have always thought that maybe I was mistaken? Or maybe I was just an overly sensitive child who needed to toughen up, or "get a grip" as my mother would say.

This has all come to a head today when I had one of those experiences where everything dawns on you at once : I watched my mother deliberately frightening my own child until she was shaking and crying and trying to run away. Neither of them could see that I was watching, but I saw the whole thing. When DD did get away, saw me and came running to me, my mother appeared and told me that my DD had got herself into the situation and that she wasn't able to stop her, despite her best efforts.

This is not true, as I watched the whole thing. My mother created it all, and was fascinated watching my dd's fear response and repeating it to get a further reaction. I confronted my mother and she told me again that I was mistaken, that she would never do anything to scare DD. My DF came later too and said I was ridiculous for accusing my DM of something like that. But I know I was not mistaken. I know what I saw with my adult eyes.

Obviously I am not going to let her be alone with my DD again. Of course my DD is my main concern here and I know what to do to protect her, but the help I'm looking to get from you is about me.

Why would my mother do this? I have no doubt she loves me and DD in her own way, so why would she do this? She was a perfectly good mother in most other respects.

What kind of effect is that likely to have had on a child (me?)

What can I do to help myself get over my phobias and anxiety now I know that this sort of behaviour was the cause and that they didn't just happen because I am not "tough enough" as a person.

Your DD might have been permanently disfigured thanks to your mother. LC at least and never ever second guess yourself why. Tell them it's not up for discussion " I saw what you did" and repeat. Somebody earlier on this board said " honest person keeps apologising,liar gets defensive".

Does your DH actually disbelieve you? Does he think you would make something like this up?

How anyone could treat a 2 year old like that is beyond me. I'm very sorry for what you went through in childhood, OP.

I'm really sorry what you've gone through as a child. It's horrible when the person who should be closest,caring and protective fails as a parent. I'm shocked at your mother's behaviour towards helpless distressed 2 year old girl.

Can I ask a question please? If you saw this was happening to uour child, why did uou watch it play out? Why did you not step in and put a stop to it?

Everything else makes sense to me, but that. If you were close enough to watch, your were close enough to shout out or step in and stop it, especially as you were close enough that your daughter could run to you afterwards.

I can sort of understand someone doing this sort of thing as a joke? Or a misguided therapy? but the fact that she denies it means that that was not the reason, she knew she was doing wrong.

I am so sorry you and your dd have suffered this, but it is great that after all these years you now know the truth.

She reminds me a bit of Jekyll and Hyde.

With regard to your husband, it can be very hard for people who have had 'normal' family interactions, in which mums are always caring and loving, to believe that people can be nasty, uncaring or even evil towards small children. I used to disbelieve my husband, or minimise what he was saying by saying things like 'I'm sure your mum loves you really' or 'perhaps she wasn't deliberately trying to hurt you'. Sadly, he was right and I was wrong, she can be extremely nasty and it's only seeing it over time, seeing it happen in my own children that I realize that a two hour supervised visit once or twice a year is more than enough. Perhaps show him this thread? I feel very guilty I didn't listen more when my husband was trying to tell me his mum was selfish and would actually hurt him to get attention (emotionally and occasionally physically). There really are people like this unfortunately.

bluntness100 I didn't step in because 1. I was in denial about my mums behaviour, convinced she only had good intentions and for a vast majority of the time while it played out I was confused about what was actually going on it was so bizarre. And 2. It proved everything to me.

I did actually step into the scene to stop it and that's when my DD came running to me.

Bluntness when it happened in front of my eyes, I froze. My father/grandfather had a method of playing/play fighting that was scary and rough. I hated it, similar to how OP would feel but as it wasn't my mother, I was not often alone with these men and if it did happen with other people present I would scream and scream and scream until they intervened.

I just sat at watched it. I realised at some point that I felt the urge to go get my children - and I did, but for a period of time I just stared and I don't even know what was going on in my head. I then became angry and it all came to a head.

I think OP didn't go over for the reason of a frozen fear, that grips you.

If I go NC or LC or anything (which I plan to do) it will be met with utter bafflement by my parents. And probably tears and telling me I am delusional and ungrateful and spoiled. I really need to be careful to remember this fully.

Your mum won't be baffled.

She knows exactly what she did and she knows that you know. You just have to be firm and stand your ground and not let her tell you that you imagined or misinterpreted the situation.

Just don't phone them. If you aren't going to confront or discuss it with your mum, then don't go round there.

I'd make my mum admit and get help or she can forget she has a daughter called Sandy and she'd never see me again.

Ive left my DC with my umum for a weekend when they were younger, with full trust. If for one moment she did anything to deliberately harm them like your mum did, that would be the end of it.

She either confesses that she did this, or the relationship is done. Stand firm and don't let your DD down. You don't know what's going on in her little mind when she has to visit her nan.

It might be helpful to show your dh this thread- it can be excruciatingly difficult to put some things into words.

for you x

After reading your update, I would go no contact. None at all what so ever.

I'm reading your posts and, correct me if I'm wrong, you want your mum to acknowledge what she has done as wrong and for her to be sorry.

She won't acknowledge it and she won't ever be sorry. It's hard to accept but she won't.

You could cut contact down to just phone calls and never give in. Explain why over and over again.

But I wouldn't give her the satisfaction of yours or your dd's company. Never again after that.

I will add - I've gone to minimal contact with my mum. It's too long to go into but I never visit her, I only text or ring. She will never see my dcs and that was a hard decision but now I've made it and stuck to it it feels right.

I've worked in MH for many years but that doesn't mean a lot on an anonymous forum!

Your Mum may genuinely have a sadistic streak in that she enjoys the fear and pain of other people. Or she may gain from this kind of behaviour in terms of 'rescuing' and making it all better - even though she caused the fear and pain. I've worked with both scenarios.

To be honest though, that is irrelevant to you. That is something for your Mum to deal with in therapy if she would be willing to do that. But at this stage in her life I doubt she would engage with that.

What is important is you and your child. This is entrenched and seriously disordered behaviour which won't change unless she gains insight into the behaviour and wants to change. From what you've said, this will not happen.

All you can do at this stage is cut contact - and it is extremely rare that I would suggest that.

And there will be a backlash and you need to understand this will be focused on you being delusional. For what it's worth, I do believe in false memory syndrome and have worked with it. I've also worked with many people who have been victimized and abused throughout childhood and a skilled and disordered manipulator has made them believe this was all in their head. It's called gaslighting.

Without knowing you, I'm inclined to believe your experiences are more likely to be the latter.

Hells bells! She sounds Iike a complete psycho! Is there anyway you can film it if it happens again? That way when people don't believe you there is evidence. Maybe she is trying to help (aversion therapy) but that doesn't make what she is doing right!

I don't think there is room in your life for people who don't believe you OP. This was your normal when you were a child. You obviously adapted yourself to believe that you were the problem and when you saw it happen to your daughter, it must have been both very familiar and yet like seeing it clearly for the first time. Your mother is cruel and I think you were right when you said sadistic. I hope you will find love and support. You must think about your own emotional safety. Your daughter's is very important too. But this is what you went through many many times. I believe you

I'm NC with my abusive mother, absolutely the right decision and I'm so much happier. It was hard at first but when the panic attacks and anxiety stopped it made it all worth it. Luckily she hasn't met my son so can't have a toxic effect on him.
It sounds like it's time to go NC with yours, if anyone did that to my little boy they wouldn't be seeing him again.
I know it's a tough decision and it's heartbreaking, even when you know it's the right decision.

I am so sorry you were the victim of abuse and now you've been abused again by witnessing your mother abusing your child.

Please seek professional help and support immediately for both you and DD

Take heart that you are a different mother to yours and your first instinct is to protect your child. Well done for having the courage to confront her

What may happen now is pressure from family to toe the line and not challenge reality which is why low contact may beneficial at this stage to allow you to process and heal.

Unfortunately this will not be what the abuser wants.

Does she have contact with any other children or vulnerable people?

My mum would be dead to me if she did this to my DD.

I'm sorry you are going through this OP. I'm no contact with abusive elderly parents at the moment. They've been trying their manipulation on ds via letters, since walking out in a huff months ago. Outwardly my childhood needs were met in a material sense but my parents were emotionally aloof and controlled us. You seem like a lovely person and a loving Mum. I'm sorry you are going through this.

Sadly this is all very familiar to me OP and I am completely NC with my mother.

Is this the only odd thing she does? I am wondering if she narcissistic personality disorder? Have a quick look at this - it's a bullet point list www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/characteristics-of-narcissistic-mothers/

Your DH probably has a perfectly normal, if flawed family and just won't understand how your mother could deliberately want to harm their own daughter or grandchild. It's so awful it is easier to not believe it. And please don't forget, your father has spent your life enabling her behaviour.

I understand

Bloody hell. That is beyond understanding. The only explanation is perhaps this was done to her as a child and thinks you have to confront your fears...but to a 2 year old? Unforgiveable and may have made your little girl even more frightened of dogs. Hugs to you and your daughter.

I'm so sorry for you and your DDs experiences OP. The 'confronting fears' thing can work, but only if done well. For example, my nieces were terrified by their other uncle's dog when they first met him (Labrador) and ran away. When they came back, he showed them how to stroke him and said that he hardly ever barks and how to look after him, but to be careful etc etc. 10 mins later, they're happily petting him and throwing balls for him to fetch. BUT they were 8 and 10, NOT 2, and it wasn't forced.

Now you've seen her donthese things, you can see she's in the wrong ... personally I'd have had it out with her, but you're under a different spell she's created in your childhood, but everyone here is telling you what you know, she's bonkers and can't be allowed to do that
To your child - pull her up, don't allow her to squirm
Out of it

Your DH says - She (DD) is your mother's whole life."

Too right, she (DD) is putty in your mums hands.

Your mum now has a new victim. A young innocent victim, like you once were.

you can & will STOP her from terrorising your DD.