ADVICE NEEDED. NC with toxic parents..dad is now sick

[aubs427]

I recently wrote in about my situation. Here's the link. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2726749-Going-NC-with-toxic-parents-aftermath-Need-Advice-Support

Their efforts in a letter and generic birthday gift have not 'weakened' me. Thankfully, I have my husband who has been one of my strongest support system through all this.

However, my sister has just recently messaged me on facebook last night stating that my dad is now in the hospital due to either a minor stroke or a bad reaction to the flu shot. They will be conducting an MRI on Monday.

My question to you guys is, if it is something serious, do I go visit them? My husband is highly against this option and feels that it will just be ammunition to use against me. They clearly have not changed and will not change. He fears that I will undo all the progress I have made in the last few months. I'm not in anyway rushing over there. However, if there is limited time or he's only got so much time left, do I go to visit just to say I did? Will nothing good come out if it?

I feel conflicted as I have always been 'good-hearted'. Except, I know the reality of my situation as based off the letter my dad wrote to me in July was one of blame. There was no acknowledgement of the abuse and basically he spent a page and a half putting all the blame on me and spent two paragraphs comparing me to my sister, as in "your sister went down the right path and you should have followed". My husband feels that my mom will unleash hell on me if I show up.

All I have said to my sister so far is "okay keep me posted".
Please help. :( I don't know what to do.

Am I the only one who thinks your OH is in danger of being too controlling too?

I would be careful op that you haven't just gone from one controlling person (your mother) to another (your husband). Of course there's no suggestion he's physically abusive etc. But make sure how you interact with your parents is how YOU decide not his - he shouldn't be stopping you reading the email if you truly wanted to read it

Strawberry I looked back at OP's replies. She stated that she handed the phone to him and after he read the email he said she could read it but didn't think she should. I saw this as protective rather than abusive.

Update for everyone here regarding the letter and blocking my sister, my husband forwarded the letter to my best friend (who is well aware of thr situation) and she agreed as well that I should not read it. She, too, also summarized the letter for me and confirmed there were no awknowledgements/apologies or any "addressed" issues from my initial NC letter I sent them back in June.

At Strawberry's concern, my husband is far far far from controlling. He did give me the option to read it and in no way held my email captive or anything like that of sorts. I had the option to read it, and i decided not to read it. He always encourages me to make my own decisions, except in this case, he knows that I will more than likely end in a downward spiral because the "abuse is basically continuing from them."

To CookieDoughKid's response, I myself am in shock when I read your story and in all honesty, that is the battle. My parents, growing up, always tried to make our family seem to be the "family" that "stuck together". Even abuse that directly happened to her was brushed under the very lumpy rug.

To CookieDoughKid, would you, yourself, see me as a bad person, being that you are from the same culture and have basically had the samr experiences as I had? I do think there is a strong correlation between the culture and my "struggle" in letting go.

Do you/anyone else have any further tips regarding following/going against your culture's expectations/standards?

Strawberry90

Interesting deflection.

I would agree - OP could have opened the email - she chose to ask her DH to be a barrier - good move - he recommended she didn't read it - not stopped her from reading it

Has DH met your parents? What's his view on them as people?

Hi Astro! Yes he has met them many times and he thinks theyre evil. Pure evil. He never has a nice thing to say and actually wants them to suffer due to the amount of damage they have inflicted on me.

When him and I had just celebrated our one year of being together, i was still living at home. I had told him of most, but not all of the abuse that had occurred. He felt the negative energy from them immediately from just being in their house. On top of that, my dad had gone nuts on me several times calling my husband "a mexican trash".

My husband urged me to move out with him early on in our relationship because he saw how they were. I did try to, but unfortunately failed due to circumstances out of my control.

For the next following 4 years, they made their opinion very strong. Even at some point yelling at me saying I "wasnt allowed to live a Western lifestyle".

Theyd always try to "lecture" me into thinking I wasnt good enough for him or if that didnt work, theyd say things like "you know it isnt going to last anyway." He absolutely thinks they are the worst people hes ever met in his life.

Strawberry When my BFF was divorcing her (then)STBX sent her the most vile emails I'd ever seen. Interspersed in the bile were statements regarding child pick-ups, division of property etc., things she had to respond to. She asked me to read the emails first and let her know if she needed to respond to anything. 99% of the time I told her 'you don't want to see this' and would just delete it after telling her anything she needed to know.

I guess I will have to apologize to her for 'being so controlling'.

Hi aubs. Sorry for delayed reply. Half term week!

I'm quite a bit older than you so have had a lot of time to reflect. When I was your age I always felt angry and bitter. Traumatised. My brain went into shut down to be honest and even now, there are huge parts of my childhood that I simply don't remember. Especially details. All I remember is pain, being shouted at, feeling afraid. Compared to my siblings whom they remember a lot of growing up i.e. what the house was like, family events we went to. I simply can't remember much at all and I really think it's my way of coping.
For sure, I received far more flak than my siblings did. I was the oldest and that's probably why.

Fast forward to today, being a parent, I am hugely more appreciative of what I parent differently. Things are a gazillion times better for my kids than it was for me. But as a result of my parents temper, I do find myself rising quickly and being short tempered too and I struggle with more patient methods of discipline. I don't beat my kids but I can be verbally sharp.

What you need to realise is that you have choices now. To stop living in the past and let go all the truama. Much harder to do than say - I know. But as you are no longer living at home with your parents, you can be in control of your own happiness and destiny. You are much stronger than you think. One example is that I might be on the phone to my mum and very quickly her temper can rise (over something extremely mundane) or I may voice an opinion which isn't too her liking (recent example is that I tell her I think it's great sister is dating XXX (who is black). I can either - quickly get into a fight on the phone and end up feeling hurt or I can end the call quickly and politely whilst she is banging on and I cut her off mid-sentence. Yes it's rude but really, I no longer have time for her bullocks and disengaging from her vitriol is hugely damning (to her). (Although in my head, I am saying 'yeah whatever - fuck you, you self centred narcissistic bitch. You can rot in your own shoes thank you very much).

I am with an English (white) man. The shock can you imagine?! And I'm not even married (even more shocking) yet we have been together for over 10 years with beautiful children. Over time my parents have no mellowed out in their opinions and attitude. And keeping my distance really helps. I don't ask for their support, money or opinion because I don't need it and I certainly don't give them detail ammunition about my life. We don't talk or joke around like in so many other families. Our relationship is superficial, formal and my conduct with them is very planned.

Not mellowed not no mellowed. This is a very personal post for me too :) I really hope that my experience can help you move on and be stronger.

I don't see you as a bad person. Not at all. You may not conform to your parents ideals but your parents ideals were never positive anyway. I mean, you seriously think that living up to your parents ideals makes you a nicer, kinder, loving and more considerate person? I seriously don't think so.

For me, I would be ok to see my parents on their deathbed -if only to be sure they will be dead. I know if they did die, I really don't think I would even cry. I KNOW I wouldn't cry as I've pictured them dead a very very long time ago when I stopped needing them. Does that make me a bad person? In my opinion, no. (See how highly I think of myself now :)

If you ever do see your family again know that you have a choice. Walk out if they get shitty with you. or you can blast them some back with their own medicine (but I prefer to walk out and do the fuck you business in my own head). That goes the same for your sister. But one thing you must really really have to realise. Is that you are now in control and really, you don't need them (or their shitty emails so just press delete).

Your parents are monsters, OP. I don't say this lightly. You owe them absolutely nothing.

CookieDoughKid, that is EXACTLY how I felt when I was still in contact with them. When I first moved out, I didnt speak to them for a whole week, which at the time honestly felt gut wrenching as the night I left home...things were very bad.

My now-husband and I basically sat down with them in hopes to be the "adults" and show them, for lack of a better word, that we are okay. Except, they took it as betrayal. My dad spent an hour talking my husband up and putting me down, saying things like "You're going to get sick of her. You will eventually leave her. You'll see." He said he would never visit us basically "washing their hands" of me. Of course, their arms were wide open when I had to decided to call a week later...

I spent the next year going to their house, first almost every weekend. I wanted to hope that things would get better. That theyll "simmer down" from their verbal and emotional abuse, but they never did. I eventually went to only seeing them once a month and contacting them maybe twice a month. And, as you can see eventually NC, which I put in my letter as "I have to cut all communication with you unless you can be the supportive, loving parents I deserve." I havent spoken to them since.

Instead of putting myself in the line of fire, I have to stay away. I tried to set boundaries many, many times. Both my parents will outshout me and when I have attempted to just "get up and leave" or walk away...or even threaten to leave; they try to get physical. Which, i have had to try to stop myself MANY times.

My mother tried beating me when I was 20 years old for my 401k at my job. Why? I have no clue...but I stopped her by grabbing her arm and pushing her back and nearly yelling,"YOU CANNOT DO THAT ANYMORE!" And her response? "WHY NOT?"

Sadly, it only made her angrier... my point is, there ARE no boundaries with them. I mean, what the hell else am I supposed to do? Would you be able to handle possibly going through that every single time you see your parents? It is honestly exhausting.

I also really hated the fakeness. And, I didnt even realize it until I started reducing contact less and less.

I can say that your post does help tremendously. To me, NC is NC. I honestly dont want to deal with my parents negative crap and certainly, after having done all this already...dont need to hear from them how I've betrayed them. CookieDoughKid, don't you think, instead, that THEY are the ones who betrayed me? In your opinion?

I plan to remain NC for good. No ifs, ands, or buts. I tried for so long to bring some genuine kindness and love into their lives and instead, they shit all over it. I'd rather close the door on that part of my life COMPLETELY and spread my love and kindness towards people (like my husband) who deserve it. I read this interesting article and it said, "toxic parents will reap what they sow" and I guess...my parents have reaped what they sowed and me not being a part of their lives, even in death, is a price.

I am no contact with my sister. She is a hypochondriac and told my other sister she had uteran cancer. So I called. Of corse there was no cancer (I can truly say thankfully) but it made me feel like a fool; I was played. So, that would be a "no" don't get in touch.

I do not have the amount awful history with my sister that you carry from your parents.

The idea I have for you, especially since your last post sounding very strong in your resolve, is to go ahead and have your own private memorial service for your parents now, even though they have not passed on yet. You can decide what/how to do it, but it would be a tangible line in the sand for you psychologically: you have "buried" them...they cease to exist to you. Spread ashes, float some flowers, release balloons, etc. whatever you think is appropriate for you. This will serve as a function for you to "honor" your parents (check the box of cultural obligation). You may loathe doing something "nice", no requirements or guidelines here-do what would be satisfying to you. Burn every object that is a reminder of them and spread those ashes, for example.

Then you have no need to know. Not when, not how, no details or drama of it when it does inevitably happen. You have already passed that milepost. Like a previous poster said, the detachment will be established so the event would be as a distant uncle/relative that you hardly knew and generate a simplistic and disservedly dismissive "Oh. Oh well."

I agree with others regarding your sister. Keep away.

Your sister has also been part of this warped toxic family. she is probably Brainwashed & damaged .
Has she never stood up for you or witnessed the violence & hate they threw at you constantly. Hasn't she never denounced it in private?
I am assuming not, so She needs keeping as far away as possible too

I believe that the Chinese community can be extremely insular and non-inclusive. Our parents would not have had much exposure to cultural differences (they would have but refuse to engage) and different parenting methods. The way our parents used to parent would really have been seen as the norm in my opinion by other Chinese. Yes, they are horrific methods but the Chinese culture is steeped with 'towing the line', conformity and obedience. Things like free speech and democracy is still a very long long way off for many countries in Asia. It's no excuse, absolutely not however - I am extremely thankful to the UK for allowing me the freedom to break the mould and to live my potential . I am thankful to the UK society for which I mean education, culture, employment etc and friendships from all cultures - which have been my rock and without I would have probably never of survived. Culturally, we western Chinese (2nd generation etc) have assimilated many attributes that have really challenged the Chinese ideals and this makes it difficult to hold relationships with our families. Their idea of love and kindness is brutal. Ours is not.

Agree with Bandplayed - you won't realise it but you may feel a lot of sadness and depression as you come to terms over the next few months. You'll be grieving going NC but what this really means, is that you'll be grieving their ''deaths''.

It sounds like you have made up your mind, you know what you need to do. and that NC is NC. That's absolutely OK because your conscious and unconscious mind is telling you what you need to do. If you ever wobble, go back and read this thread.

Feel free to PM anytime if you need to talk. Let it all go and live your with people who love you and care for you and pour your energies to those that deserve it. You truly will be OK :)

bandplayed, last night I heeded your advice and held a 'funeral' for both my parents. I thought of printing out a picture of the two of them and burning it, but thought it was too much work (especially for night time). The next best thing was I had some left-over unused cat litter and pretended they were ashes instead. I had a quiet moment to 'weep' and threw cat litter over my balcony twice (for both parents). It was cathartic. I honestly haven't slept this well in the last week, so I'm grateful for that.

Mix56 My sister knows that some abuse happened. She did throughout my lifetime see the rage and tantrum fits my dad threw as her and I even had some common ground on that "Dad is insane". However, at the end of the day, regardless of how angry or 'insane' he was, she would still be loyal to him in a way. As CookieDoughKid says, more than likely due to the culture we've been raised in and being the golden child, she's embraced it. Furthermore, her and I have never fully sat down in private one on one to talk about what's occurred in my childhood as I feel she may 'excuse' their behavior. Even about minuscule details about my life were never really talked about. It was a very 'formal' and very 'superficial' relationship.

CookieDoughKid My sister is more than likely on a flight to here, as I write this. I'm REALLY hoping she doesn't show up at my door. Thankfully, my husband has a plan set in place, so I'm not worried. I suppose what I fail to understand about our parents is, they immigrated to a different country to 'supposedly' give us a better life...yet, won't allow us to live those aspects. I remember it confused me terribly when my dad went on one of his rage tantrums again yelling at me saying I wasn't allowed to live a Western lifestyle. If I wasn't so damn terrified of him, I might have said something like, "Then why do we live in the U.S.????"

I've always felt different growing up, not just because I was being abused and cowering in fear 24/7, but just as a person. I even had 'fantasies' of hoping that they'd one day tell me I was adopted or something because then it'd maybe explain why I wasn't like the rest of my family (extended family included).

CookieDoughKid I had one last question, do you have some good coping tips regarding extended family members? I don't have a close relationship with any of them at all (as most of them don't even know when my birthday even is...), but can imagine they will use some of that cultural excuse against me for, let's say, when they realize I didn't go to the funeral... What are some things YOU would say to them if they came at you with, "How can you just leave your family like that?" or "but they were/are your parents" and the guilt trip comments... How would you combat them both, verbally to them, and mentally in your mind?

Thank you again to everyone who helped me through the most difficult time of my life. I'm forever grateful for this forum/thread and the people that have voiced their opinions and advices.

I read your previous thread - it was horrific, and my heart aches for you.

I think just what Astro said - especially
"Do you want to go"

I have a feeling that you will be blamed for your father's ill-heath - effectively for "killing" him.

Quite frankly, you are in a situation where you cannot win. You just cannot.

To go would be to be loaded with all of the blame for things that are not your fault, to be emotionally sent back to the horrible days which will bring back the feelings you experienced then, and will leave you depressed and distressed for months

Not to go would be to be castigated for not giving a damn, and if your father doesn't survive, or becomes very ill indeed, you will be blamed for that too and may blame yourself.

And don't think that you will feel less grief if anything happens to your father - you will feel a huge onslaught of emotions. You will grieve for the life that you should have had as their beloved daughter, and which will now never be; you will feel again all of the pain you once went through, and you will be crushed by guilt.

Whatever you do, you are going to be torn apart, so do what is going t cause you the least harm, and allow you to be best supported by your DH.

Only you can decide what that is. Your DH seems very supportive - explain to him how you feel and I'm sure he'll be there for you no matter what your decision is.

If you decide to go, though - ask DH to go with you. You will need physical as well as emotional support - someone who, if they start berating you, will physically stand up and make them leave you alone, and if necessary get you out of the room (because there is a chance you will be so upset and intimidated that you will freeze and be unable to defend yourself).

Whatever you decide, may God go with you. There are people here who will give you emotional and spiritual support - and remember - your decision is YOUR decision. Whichever one you make it is the right one for you at the time. Do NOT be browbeaten by relatives, and do NOT take on the responsibility for anyone's health.

Emotions are enormously complex - we rarely appreciate how strongly we feel about someone until there is a crisis. You may be shocked and frightened at the depth of your feelings. In this situation, you must put yourself - your own physical, mental, emotional and physical health - first.

Yes they were your parents, & they beat you & emotionally deprived you of the basic love nurture that even a dog would show it's young.
refusing any individual growth & using you as their punching ball in their miserable marriage.
I realise they came from another generation in another culture, with many complicated customs & prohibitions. Which they chose to leave by emigrating.
But you grew up & discovered you don't have to take their punishments & bile anymore.
I guess that is the reply to any judgemental relative

The reasons for deciding to keep your distance from your parents have not changed. You do not need them in your life.

If you were not in contact with them over a squabble, then this would be the time to bury the hatchet; but your suffering at their hands is in a different league and I think that you should stick to your original decision.

Hi aubs
I am glad my suggestion helped. cookiedoughkid is right about the grieving process.

Extended family will have their opinions, no doubt. (Remember the little gem: opinions are like assholes: everybody has one.) This would generally be a speak to the hand moment- that is speak to the hand because no other part of you is listening.

On the other hand, and you'd probably only have to do this once, you could let said shaming relative have it with both barrels: put the shame right back on them for not offering you any protection or help or getting you the hell away from the incessant torture your parents put you through. and leave no doubt that you won't attend their funeral either

As for guilt in your mind...my counsellor advised me to understand that no one can make me feel guilty except myself. It took awhile for me to get my head around this, but it is true. You can make an executive decision to simply not feel guilty about any of this. The guilt lies with them, not you- which is the fact of the matter.

I have found that I do not do well with the past. I get triggered into the hamster wheel of sadness, stab-in-the-heart hurts, frustration, memories of humiliations and the mental film reel gets going again and, and, well, you know- there is a downward spiral that takes X amount of time to recover again. So I try to stay in the present and look ahead.

Good luck to you.
for CookieDoughKid too.

Hello Aubs. You asked do I have some good coping tips regarding extended family members? First of all if these extended ''well meaning family'' say anything negative about you - you know they don't have your best interest at heart. I know what these elders can be like. They revel in gossip, make comparisons, denounce the slightest thing you do different because their lives are so empty and shallow and they have nothing better to do. So first up - you really ought to start caring less on what they think and more about what you think.

I wouldn't put myself in a position to be interrogated like that - I simply wouldn't bother meet with them. But if you must see them - you will just have to put your bitch face on and say it like you mean it in the nicest manner possible. Answer : 'It's none of your business about the way I live my life but if you really want to know, my parents were and still XYZ (let's be extremely blunt here - XYZ = abusive, cruel, dictatorial, uncompromising, small minded - whatever adjective you want to use) who failed their children and so why should I who didn't even ask to be born in this family nevermind suffer X no. of years at their hands pay my respects to them?'. Give it to them with both barrels and walk off, leave the room. This isn't even a discussion. This is telling them how it is. Don't get yourself into a fight. Don't bother - disengage and they will be floored.

Because these fuckers of Chinese 'family' - and I say this as a Chinese person, you have to get into their mindset 'being ''nice'' and concerning on the face of it but no substance underneath - they absolutely do not have your welfare at heart. And really, do they give a fig about your sister and your parents? REALLY? Correct me if I'm wrong but they likely only care about themselves.

If your sister was my sister and she flew in demanding to see me. I wouldn't even answer the door or even see her again until I heard the words 'I'm so sorry. I acknowledge all that went on'. Because to deny it is to normalise it. And what hope have your children got when you become a parent one day if you give in and normalise it? I wouldn't even have my kids go near your sister or your parents if they were my family.

So stand your ground. Leave the past behind and to hell what other people think. Be strong.

Thank you BandPlayedOn. All the best to you too. [Flowers]

BandPlayedOn My therapist gave me the same advice, too. I'm looking to continue moving forward as well and just enjoy all the things me and my husband have planned for our future. I used to stress and constantly worry about what my parents would think about things I did or even places I went. They had judgements on something as small as a puppy and even me renewing my lease. But, now...I don't have those worries and I am making decisions free of stress. I, too, do not do well with the past and have all those same concerns about getting stuck in an abyss of sadness.

CookieDoughKid That is so absolutely true what you said about the gossip, making comparisons, and all the other things typical Chinese families do. It's kind of disgusting! My mom spent all of 2011-2015 talking so much crap on her niece (my cousin) over something SO incredibly petty. Yet, was super super nice to her when it came to getting the two families together...I hated it! Thank you for that advice you provided and I'll definitely heed it. It's absolutely refreshing to hear from another Chinese person who's gone through VERY VERY similar experiences to FINALLY understand the 'Chinese' experience.

My biggest struggle going through all this was mainly about the fact that I've just completely disappeared from my family's life until their death. I'd never thought I'd find myself in this position and honestly didn't think you or anyone else for that matter would 'respect' or 'take kindly' to someone who would do that, especially to parents.

Mix56 I do feel that my parents were incredibly unhappy in their marriage. I'm no longer taking the blame. For the first time, I'm finally learning to put myself first and not worry about what my parents think or how they're going to react, since I've also already mourned their death...

EVERYONE'S advice has helped me SO tremendously. Each and every single person that has provided their input has given me strength, courage, and hope for a more fulfilling life. All of you are such an amazing bunch. :)

Your parents are far worse than mine.

But I am nc with mine and exactly this happened to me. Phone call from sister about dying father. I went to see him. I shouldn't have.

He didn't die and I ended up in touch with him and didn't want to be. I ended up under pressure to see my mum.

Then having turned all our lives upside down, introduced my children to cousins and let them hope for a relationship with her, sister decided to go nc with me if I wouldn't "leave the past in the past" and resume contact with parents.

One day I will get the same phone call again and I won't go. We are nc for a reason.

Ah. You may laugh about it one day. After it all stops hurting. Youtube have so many comedies about how the Chinese treat beat their offspring! You'll be fine. Stand strong and live your life amazing because you only have one life! Fill it with joy and surround yourself with goodness. Not energy sappers!!