Kicked him out this morning. Hand hold please.

[EndOfLongTether]

Long term poster (from before the Moldies saga) namechanged because there are friends on here who know my regular NN.

DH has been drinking in binges for a very long time. I suffered it for years and tried to keep a normal facade for the benefit of DC, but now the oldest understands what is going on. After last night when he showed up drunk, aggressed her, then banged the door and went out without a word, she said "Mummy, I don't feel good in this house anymore. I never know if he will come home like this in the evening" He stumbled home at 5 AM.

I woke him up earlier and told him to pack a bag and leave. He was still laughing and said I was exaggerating, it was all a bit of fun. It's not fun at all for me & DC. He left. I don't know if he took a bag.

I'm feeling wobbly.

[Whooptydoo1]

He will try and make you feel bad, because the world is against him and it's not his fault because (insert random excuse), it will be hurtful when he does this, but it's not about u, its because it's harder for him to blame himself and realise what he's done than think it's something you have done to him that he has no control over. Until he takes full responsibility he isn't going to get better. I was consciously aware of tension etc from being around 3, I was 5/6 when I realised that other people's parents weren't like mine. Please don't think your children are scared for life or anything, he may well get the help he needs and make it up to them, and most importantly they have too

[Whooptydoo1]

*they have you!

[Whooptydoo1]

I forgot to say too that it's up to u to decide what/when to tell people, but please don't let the motivation for keeping quiet be some misplaced shame or guilt. You have done nothing to be embarrassed about, you have done something incredibly brave and selfless to protect your children, that is something to be proud of, if ppl disagree then they need to take a long hard fucking look at themselves

[EndOfLongTether]

Yes, you are right. It's not my fault that he continues with his destructive behaviour that has us all on edge every day. I have to do this for my children's wellbeing.

I haven't told anyone that I've kicked him out yet, but not out of shame. I fear that if I do, he will take that as the point of no return and won't continue with the effort that he is (apparently) starting to make now.

Next time we speak, I will insist that he tells everyone (friends, colleagues, family) that he has stopped drinking and will never drink again. I want this declaration to happen so people start to treat him differently, and also so he can't then take out his whole team for boozy lunches and after-work drinks.

What do you think?

[Stormtreader]

Starting is easy - I've started a diet hundreds of times.
Sticking to it though after the first few weeks or months or years? Thats the challenge.

Hes already promised he'd change at least once, that lasted right up to until he got his feet back under the table.

[Whooptydoo1]

Yes, I think him telling people is a good step towards him taking it seriously and accepting responsibility, he may be inclined to vastly understate things and put it across like it's not that big of a deal, not sure it sounds like he's really understanding the impact this is having on your family, it's not necessarily about how much he drinks or when, it's about how it makes you all feel, living with the tension/stress/anxiety and unpredictability is just awful. Does he know what your DC said about him?

[EndOfLongTether]

"Hes already promised he'd change at least once, that lasted right up to until he got his feet back under the table."

Many more times than once, and yes, lasted not very long at all.

[EndOfLongTether]

"not sure it sounds like he's really understanding the impact this is having on your family"

You are right, he isn't. Always tries to minimise when I tell him what he said/did the night before. Some of that is because he genuinely doesn't remember and thinks I make stuff up

"Does he know what your DC said about him?"

Yes, I told him when I kicked him out but I don't know if it registered. He was still groggy as had just woken up after a long bender.

[tribpot]

marfisa has said everything I was going to say I think. In response to your question is it best to let him sort it out in private, without losing face to his friends & colleagues, if there is a chance of that happening? the answer is: absolutely not. Addiction thrives on secrecy and the best thing you can do for him, and more importantly for yourself, is it put it out there in a way that can't be hidden or denied or covered up later. This is the situation, it isn't normal, and you're not prepared to put up with it.

I would contact Al Anon and start your own journey of recovery. Whether he sticks to his (if he ever even makes it to AA) is up to him.

I would tell people you have separated due to his drinking but that he claims to be starting to work on his problem and you will wait to see what happens before making any longer term decisions. If you put off telling people because you think he will treat it as carte blanche to get hammered then you already know he's not serious about giving up drinking. You didn't make this happen, and you can't stop it from happening either.

I wouldn't bargain with him, i.e. he tells everyone and then you'll let him back. He tells everyone because it's part of his recovery process. Not because you're controlling the narrative.

Always keep the three Cs in mind:

• you didn't cause it
  
• you can't control it
  
• you can't cure it

[EndOfLongTether]

You are right, ikea. I need to detach and let him do what he will. Which will not be my fault or my responsibility.

My responsibility is DC. End of.

[EndOfLongTether]

tripbot, those 3Cs are great. Thank you.

A found an Al Anon near us that meets Thursday mornings. Too late for today but I'll try to get there next week.

[Whooptydoo1]

Hope you're doing ok endof ,find some help in AlAnon, and have some real life support, just remember that we on MN are here if u need us too

[OliviaBenson]

Sorry for the slow reply.

I don't have any relationship with my dad at all. He's very poorly now, all he lives for is alcohol.

I just want to pick up on what you said earlier about making him tell everyone he isn't drinking. Only he can make the changes. You can't do it for him. I almost feel like you would be prepared to take him back if he does x,y and z. It won't happen though until he is ready to face it.

You should tell people though- it is not your shame.

[EndOfLongTether]

I saw him briefly today, and he said AA was going to call him to meet one-on-one in the afternoon. Is that done?

Then he asked "So, can I come home tonight?" I think you are all right. He expects to flash a smile and come back, pick up his life from where he left off.

[EndOfLongTether]

I have a question, though. What do you do when DC say they miss daddy? I am thinking of meeting up over the weekend, early in the day. Maybe for lunch.

[EndOfLongTether]

That came out soft and mushy I'm not giving in, just don't want to say "No you can't see him" to DC.

DD asked tonight how long he will stay away and if that means we can't see him at all during this time.

[skyyequake]

I think if your DD is old enough then you should tell her the truth. That the split is indefinite, and maybe if he really gets his drinking sorted then there might be a possibility of sorting things out but you can't promise because he has hurt you and the DC very badly by behaving as he has.

I think for the younger DC, maybe just say that daddy will be gone for a long time as he's made himself very unwell and he needs to work to get himself better.

But obviously make it clear that they can see their dad regularly, but he is very unwell so if he flakes on them then it's not their fault.

[Whooptydoo1]

Oh bloody hell love, I think you need to do what you feel most comfortable with, of course they miss him but he needs to stay away so that he can get better so that he can be the best daddy he can be, you don't know how long that will be, but if they're missing him, want to talk about it him with you then that's ok (I know this will be painful for u tho). If you're comfortable perhaps go for something to eat together at a coffee shop or similar and go to the park afterwards maybe? They could also speak to
Daddy on the phone (if u ring first and make sure he's "well" enough) when they're missing him. If going out together becomes too hard is there a friend/family member who could take the kids to see him? That said he needs to understand that for the time being your relationship as spouses is off, you're separated, you are not playing happy families for him to feel better. Your relationship is not going to change until he makes real, concrete changes - actions not words. If you feel u need to keep the children from seeing him at the moment that's your choice, the only problem is that it could be a long time before he gets his shit together. I wish I could be more help, I think you're amazing tho x

[Whooptydoo1]

Also I've never heard of aa calling to arrange a one on one, but I'm not an expert

[EndOfLongTether]

We haven't been "happy families" for a long time. I doubt if he would be under that illusion. He seems to think he'll just waltz back into our lives, though, which isn't going to happen.

I'm OK with meeting up with him for a lunch with the kids. I think I'd rather avoid him taking the kids on his own, not because he'll be drinking but because it will set a precedent like we are already divorced and that's his time with the kids.

[EndOfLongTether]

sky - No, DD isn't old enough to hear the blunt truth, either. I do tell her the truth, just in a way she can comfortably absorb and not be anxious about.

Tonight she asked if daddy had been to the doctor. I said no, not the doctor, but he called and went to a club where they help each other stop drinking. Everyone there used to drink too much and be mean like daddy gets, but then they stopped and they don't drink at all anymore. So now they help others stop drinking.

I left it open-ended (Don't know when he can be back) but hopeful (It's OK, don't worry, daddy wants to stop drinking and is trying now).

I don't know what else to do

[tribpot]

It's very hard, because when she next sees him drunk she will feel that you lied to her about him trying to stop drinking. There's no way to explain to a child that he might (despite scant evidence) want to stop but isn't actually doing it. Did he actually go to AA? I wouldn't say he has been if you don't know that he has. It sounds like he's called them and they've arranged to meet one-to-one, if his story is true. On the face of it that sounds like a convenient lie to get him out of the 'shame' of having to go to a meeting.

I think his reaction is very telling. I assume you did say 'no you can't come home tonight'. He feels no true remorse for what he's done. At least, he doesn't yet. Not least because he hasn't been sober long enough to feel it.

A book that's really worth reading is Rachel's Holiday by Marian Keyes. MK is a recovering alcoholic herself and RH is about as good a description of addiction can you get in a book that's also hilarious and acutely well-observed.

[ohforfoxsake]

There comes a point where you have to say it out loud to the children.

It sounds as though they are confused and don't understand what is going on. They probably don't need to know that its about 'daddy's drinking' but is it the time to tell them that you 'don't love each other anymore and can't stay married?'

They will miss their DF, but he is STILL their dad and that can be reinforced. Because he doesn't live there, doesn't mean he has stopped being their dad, loves them very much etc.

Theres a useful book called 'Parenting Apart'. It was recommended by my mediator, and it covers all sorts of scenarios. I found it really helpful.