Kicked him out this morning. Hand hold please.

[EndOfLongTether]

Long term poster (from before the Moldies saga) namechanged because there are friends on here who know my regular NN.

DH has been drinking in binges for a very long time. I suffered it for years and tried to keep a normal facade for the benefit of DC, but now the oldest understands what is going on. After last night when he showed up drunk, aggressed her, then banged the door and went out without a word, she said "Mummy, I don't feel good in this house anymore. I never know if he will come home like this in the evening" He stumbled home at 5 AM.

I woke him up earlier and told him to pack a bag and leave. He was still laughing and said I was exaggerating, it was all a bit of fun. It's not fun at all for me & DC. He left. I don't know if he took a bag.

I'm feeling wobbly.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

Yes, me too - how are you, Endof?

[Fender1]

How did your talk go yesterday Endof...? Been thinking of you all day

[TheLegendOfBeans]

I'll meet him tomorrow to talk. He isn't interested in talking to me apparently hmm but I insisted.

Whilst I understand that you are desperate for the family unit not to fracture this is ridiculously cock-eyed behaviour.

As harsh as it sounds, the only way you have to go forward right now is by assuming that you are now two separate parents and that your life is now your own with only your concerns to worry about (and the children's obviously).

That way, if you reunite then he's been given the message loud and clear you don't need him and that you choose to be with him and should the relationship dissolve then you're mentally braced, and getting ready for your new life.

Easy for strangers on an Internet forum to say but it sounds like he doesn't want you and is behaving like a petulant arsehole taking the path of least resistance, "treatment" or no treatment.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

I'm going to add to the "why do you need to ask him?" chorus here - he's playing you, IMO.

Last time he tried the kicked puppy motif, and it worked, you let him back. This time, he's going for the "mortally offended, if this is what YOU want then fine, this is what YOU get, it's all YOUR fault that our family is broken" option.

And if you're not careful, you'll take that on and you won't want to be the one who "broke the family". This will, eventually, allow him both the moral highground (as in "well I wasn't the one who broke up the family") AND allow him back to carry on drinking, because you don't want him to leave.

So you know what - tell him you've changed your mind, you DON'T want to see him actually and what he does in regards to stopping drinking is entirely down to him. Make him realise that this is entirely HIS responsibility, NOT yours. Because that's how it has to be.

Remember again:
You did not cause this
You cannot control this
You cannot cure this

You're trying to control it by pushing him for answers that he probably doesn't even have. Stop.

[Kidnapped]

Why do you need to know all this?

Genuine question. Let him sort himself out and then maybe a few months down the line you can think about where you both are.

You are still too involved and no offence but you are 'mothering' him. He needs to get control of it himself.

What if he comes back too soon, he relaxes back into his old routines and his old triggers and starts drinking again? Could be the absolutely worst thing for him to come back right now.

This separation might be the start of a process for him. Maybe he needs a proper separation in order to deal with it properly? Maybe you both do. Let him be.

[tribpot]

Why do you need to know these things? He isn't indicating that he is willingly trying to address his issues in the hopes of resuming family life, he's actively punishing you for changing the accepted dynamic. By chasing after him this way you're letting him know it's working. I would agree with user, there would seem to be aspects of codependency at work here too.

I appreciate that it is frustrating that here is your husband, the father of your children, the man you love and the advice is not to try and manage him through the crisis. But you can't help, and by intervening you are not helping. Detaching with love is hard but it is what gives you (and him) your best shot.

[userformallyknownasuser1475360]

Endof....

I'm sorry but this could be the opposite of my relationship at the minute. TBH I would let him be as regards relationship until he decides what he wants.

It seems strange for me to say it, but anyone can stop drinking.....

The next hurdle is staying stopped, and the one after that is living sober...,,the last two are the hard part.

If DH does not do something about his drinking and he is an alcoholic he will relapse. Even if he gets into a programme he may still relapse. I would think that you should make sure he is doing something before letting him back into a relationship, and making sure he is serious about it.

Again I would encourage Al Anon as it sounds as if there may be some co dependency issues in your relationship.

[EndOfLongTether]

True, but he is clear-eyed, lucid, rested, and short-tempered which I think means that he is drying out.

I'll meet him tomorrow to talk. He isn't interested in talking to me apparently but I insisted. No, I'm not inviting him back but I need to know what is going on with drugs, doctor, intention to quit drinking (or not?).

[tribpot]

But then all you can tell is he didn't binge yesterday. Which he could easily have planned to make sure his 'I haven't been drinking' story seemed plausible.

[EndOfLongTether]

"OP - could I suggest you try Al Anon? "

Yes, I intend to do that this Thursday after I drop kids off at school. I found out that there is an Al Anon group that meets about half an hour drive from where we live.

[EndOfLongTether]

" They've had a scare and it's finally compelled them into action. But then the chest infection improves and the smoking begins again slowly but surely. The immediate danger has passed, they forget how bad things were and they convince themselves it's safe to smoke once more."

Yes, that's exactly it. That is what happened the last time I kicked him out. All remorseful and sad-eyed like a puppy, and he was back to picking up the kids drunk from their activities within a week

It's hard to know when they have actually been scared into action, though.

I do think that he hasn't been drinking because I can tell from one look at his face if he has had a binge the night before - bloodshot eyes, breath that smells like death, etc. And binging is the only kind of drinking he knows.

[MagicalMrsMistoffelees]

You mustn't be dragged back into a miserable existence just because he's not drinking since you kicked him out - if that is even the case, which is pretty unlikely anyway.

Think of the smoker with COPD who finally gives up smoking only when they get a severe chest infection and need oxygen to breathe. They've had a scare and it's finally compelled them into action. But then the chest infection improves and the smoking begins again slowly but surely. The immediate danger has passed, they forget how bad things were and they convince themselves it's safe to smoke once more. Before long they're back smoking the same as they ever did.

Your husband is behaving the same way. He's had a shock (you kicking him out) and it's made him stop drinking (or at least pretend to). But if you let him back in and he feels all safe once more and it'll start all over again.

Like the smoker, an alcoholic can only stop when they are ready. It has to be them driving it forward and wanting to succeed. It's horrible to watch someone on self-destruct because of addiction and you will no doubt feel confused, powerless, angry, sad and hurt. But there is one thing you do have control over and that's the power to keep him out of your home so your children feel safe and don't have to feel scared, worried or distressed at their drunk father's actions. That needs to be your key thought here - protect them from their foolish father.

I really hope he gets help and turns his life around. Good luck to all of you.

[userformallyknownasuser1475360]

Exactly tribpot,

If following a programme and doing it correctly an alcoholic (or any addict for that matter) should know that their sobriety is only loaned (or possibly rented) to them and will be taken away at any time they take a drink.

I have yet to hear of an alcoholic who returned to normal drinking.

OP - could I suggest you try Al Anon? To give you a better understanding of addiction???

[tribpot]

Your instinct really needs to be not believing everything he says. But in any case, he's a binge drinker, so having periods of not drinking is normal in his behaviour.

user re this comment: Another thing to watch for is if he tells you he is off drink for good. - I don't know of any programme that advocates saying that - I assume you mean that no programme will tell a problem drinker that they are 'cured' or that they are a teetotaller. All we can ever be is sober and in recovery, i.e. we must always guard against becoming complacent that we are 'over it'.

[userformallyknownasuser1475360]

OP

I'm in AA about seven weeks, although not part of the programme you naturally learn about addiction and the way alcoholism in particular works.

A big part of the decision for people to stop drinking is what is sometimes referred to as the convincer - that being the rock. Or Tom point where alcoholic make the decision that drink isn't worth what they are losing.

The quiet you are drinking too much etc didn't work for me - I take it you mean you weren't subtle when talking to DH. I would caution you though. - you didn't cause this, you can't control it, and you cannot stop it, Only DH can do that, but you must stop enabling him - i.e. Making it easy for him to drink.

You have done the right thing with making him move out, there is no way that while the status quo was being maintained that you would have encouraged him to stop drinking.

Re telling if he has stopped drinking, I would say you should quickly start noticing a change in his appearance - loss of weight, starting to look healthier etc.

If he is following a programme you should also notice a bit of a personality change - not as stressed or angry,

Another thing to watch for is if he tells you he is off drink for good. - I don't know of any programme that advocates saying that.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

YY to that as well - if he's genuinely stopping drinking alcohol, then he needs to be dry for a minimum of 6m (and pref more) before you'd even consider letting him back home. A week or so just ain't going to cut it.

[loveyoutothemoon]

Don't waver!!

He'll need to show he's not drunk alcohol for a long time. He's no-where near that yet!

[skyyequake]

Do you know for a fact that he hasn't drunk since you kicked him out? Or has he just sobered up before contacting you?

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

How do you know he hasn't been drinking though, Endof - has he told you? or can you tell? Seems unlikely that he would have stopped and yet is still being hostile and actively avoiding a long-term plan TO stop.

[EndOfLongTether]

" I drank because my wife let me and didn't complain at me for doing so (subtle hints re drinking didn't work) "

Well, I have been subtle. I have told him again and again how horrible he has been, how he is ruining the DC's psychology, how this will eventually break our family apart.

But he didn't think it necessary to stop drinking. And yet he is not drinking now. Why?

[EndOfLongTether]

Thank you for the continuing support

I'm wavering a bit today because he took the DC out for the day and I'm wandering alone. Funny enough, he hasn't been drinking since I kicked him out which might be the longest he has gone dry for years.

[userformallyknownasuser1475360]

Just on things like cysts etc. To put your mind at ease

www.liverandpancreas.co.uk/liver-abscesses-and-cysts.php

[Joysmum]

Of course he's an alcoholic. He's dependent on alcohol to such an extent that it's more important to him than his wife and kids are. Either he's choosing alcohol he's not addicted to instead of family, he can't can't contemplate a life without alcohol asbeing as fulfilling. Either way, the alcohol is more important.

[BitOutOfPractice]

Op don't waver. You are absolutely doing the right thing for yourself and the DC.

[tribpot]

I think the cyst on the liver (alleged) is just a way to up the ante to get you to let him back home. Classic smoke and mirrors - there you are 'fixating' on his so-called drink problem (convenient debunked by both medical and addiction specialists) whilst he may have a more serious health problem which he conveniently won't have investigated (in case it proves to be non-serious and therefore doesn't work as a weapon to break down your resistance). It's designed to throw you off and make you feel like a bad person for keeping him out of his home.

It sounds like he's called your bluff and that drinking is more important to him than repairing his family. At least you know that now. Have you started telling people that you're separated? I would start getting this on a legal footing, claiming your Council Tax discount and any relevant benefits, etc. He needs to know you're serious, this is all about testing your boundaries.

As Thumb says, I would assume he is lying. I wouldn't ask to see his scan results but that just keeps you engaged in the drama of his addiction.