Relationship after split caused by alcoholism (and associated behavior)

[user1475360947]

Hi folks,

I have been advised that I may get more of a response to below thread here rather than in Newbies section, there are a few updates which I can add but they don't really change the dynamic of what I am asking.

I'm a male and looking some advice. I am 37 and have recently split from my wife, the main factor in this being the fact that I am an alcoholic (I had been drinking 8 -10 beer per night and probably more on weekends) I am what would be described as a high functioning alcoholic, I got up and went to work in the morning and all the bills etc were paid and paid on time.

My wife left after one of many arguments just over a month ago. She says she had been unhappy for years and had been shielding my step daughter and son from my drinking and moods following drink - I would stress there has never been any violence in our relationship.

There have been issues with dsd ref use of alcohol and drugs - and when she wasn't behaving I may have gone too far in trying to get her to behave (possibly grounding for too long, not speaking to her, or blcompletely banning her from the internet). I have also been grumpy when not drinking the following day. Dsd is now 19 and recently dropped out of university (since, but not related to split with dw)

We also have a son who is ten years old. I also would have been in moods with him or been quick to anger when he did things which he shouldn't (kicking football in house etc)

OH has said that she has been unhappy and hasn't loved me for years, but in the other hand says that she does care for me and the final straw was over her going guarantor for a flat for dsd which I was not happy about (daughter isn't even named on flat lease)

Following split from OH I have enrolled in a recovery programme, they couldn't take me straight away and I immediately started in AA, I am sober today and have been for the past month.

The issue is OH won't take me back, I know I can't expect it straight away or possibly ever but was just wondering if any of you have been through similar and if there is anything I can do....I love my wife and would do ANYTHING to get her back, however she will not do anything to work towards it, won't think of marriage counseling, refused Al anon, and won't even consider going for coffee.

I'd appreciate any advice good or bad, as I say I'm in recovery, have a better relationship with my son and am trying to build bridges with step daughter.

This may be hard to read but it may help you understand things from a different perspective. I am that woman who has gone through what your wife has gone through. First of all let me say well done on all you have achieved so far - it is not easy and it is fantastic that you have seen the damage you have done and you are taking steps to resolve it.

But let me tell you some truths that maybe your wife will not tell you. Yes she has shielded your children from a lot but you will never know all the questions they will have asked her - they are not blind. You will never fully appreciate the lying and the covering up that she did for you. When you chose to drink and put that over your marriage you made her feel worthless, responsible and a failure. She has had to carry that burden alone for a long time before admitting it to anyone else. That is the loneliest place in the world. She has probably had to deal with a lot of stuff that you don't even begin to realise and she is no longer the woman that she was when you had your loving relationship.

The biggest insult is when you stop drinking for about four weeks and decide that it is time everything went back to normal. Yes it's a huge step for you but for her it is the start of a whole different issue. How many times did you promise her things when you were drinking and let her down? Why should she trust you now? Sadly it sounds like she is like me - it was just a little too late by the time you realised how far you had pushed her away. In my case I had 9 yrs of growing alcoholism to deal with so I hope you can understand my anger when I was told to pull myself together after 4 weeks of him not drinking.

I am sorry if this feels really harsh. My OH has been sober for 16 months now but however hard he tries this is never going to work. He does things now that he did when he was drinking, like spending money without thinking of the consequences. I used to put it down to the drinking but every time it happens now it is like a nightmare coming back to haunt me. It's fantastic that you are rebuilding your relationship with the kids - I've seen the same happen here and wouldnt wish it any other way - but it is a real kick in the face when you have effectively been a single parent for a long time and then dad chooses to return and the kids are overjoyed. And finally she is probably feeling guilty that she doesn't want you back. She has been lonely in that relationship for a long time and it would have been a massive decision to walk away from your relationship but she probably feels she will be considered the one in the wrong for not being able to reconcile with you now.

I sincerely hope that you are able to have a friendly relationship with her. Who knows, in time maybe it will grow into more, but you really have to appreciate the harm and the devastation that an alcoholic partner can have on their partner is very deep.

Please set up a formal contact agreement - do not keep giving ds the 'choice' where he stays. You can say to him in advance which nights he will spend where.
I actually think you are unpleasantly gloating that your ds chooses you over your wife. I understand it is coming from a place of relief that you have not lost him, but to your wife it will be the last straw if she feels rejected by her ds after protecting him from your alcoholism all this time. Please do see it from her point of view and set up a regular schedule, and stop making your child choose. That is horrendously divisive. As a one off for a special occasion, whatever, but to base your entire parenting relationship on having him decides who he likes most is actually pretty bloody poor parenting. You need to be protecting his relationship with his mother in the same way she has been protecting him for years.
I am not ignoring your achievements so far. Well done on your sobriety. Keep at it.
But for goodness sake, sort out your contact schedule and stick to it, and do not force your son into a popularity contest, and then gloat about it. It isn't good news that your wife is lonely. It's heartbreaking, and it has been exacerbated by your son rejecting her.

YYY to what doodler and lostinthedark say, much more eloquently that I could.

When I went to my first al-anon meeting not sure whether it was for me (had not quite realised how big the problem was) I sobbed for the whole time when others talked about the loneliness and the work they were putting in filling the gap, shielding, avoiding, walking on eggshell.

My stbxh will say what you say, that I am set on disliking him and not trying. Truth is I cannot try anymore no matter how much I would want it. There is nothing I'd want more that for us to be a happy couple again but I cannot trust, I cannot be hurt anymore.
The extent of my trying is long 11 years but invisible, you don't see it, the children can see it. That alone is heartbreaking.

I don't want to make it about her or us but it will take you a long time to truly get it and she knows that.

Has lost says show your love and care with your action.

I am also going to add this. Like doodle says some behaviour will not go away when the alcohol goes because although maybe caused by it it has been so long it is now part of the person, whether firwever or for a linger while.

Whilst you'll have changed a lot in these sober days put it against the years of drinking, even when you were not doing it heavily but was part of your persona.

Stbxh has been supported by alcohol since he was 16. He is 51. Alcohol has been with him when he was chatting up girls, when he was stressed, when he went through bereavements, divorce, evening outs, cinema nights, xmas, wedding, first scan of his child, etc. There was always a pint or two.

To reset yourself will take time. But it can be done. And you are on that road. it can only be better. For all of you.
Koko

Ah, firstly congrats, you've taken a huge step and should feel really proud of what you are achieving.

On the down side, I'm sorry, but your posts are smacking of looking to blame everyone other than yourself. Your wife made it easy for uou to drink? Cmon, she's not your mum or carer.

I'd agee with the others, showing this is a lifestyle change over time, will give her confidence this is a permanent change and that uou take responsibility for uour own drinking will be the best bet.

Your wife did not make it easier but she was codependant.

Dh has said he would not have married someone who drunk like him
Because it'd have been a mess.

he wanted someone to look after everything and him so he could let it go. Problem is I was not told at the outset this was the deal. Of course I have kept it going and maybe others would have left before. Still it wS your choice put un her and she had no choice but deal with it. Amd it wasn't her fault for not highlighting the problem enough... it is you who did not want to see it. But hopefully you'll come to see it with time.

At 5 weeks sober, you need to concentrate on being sober. Yes - it feels like a hellavu long time to you, but right now, it's just a promise waiting to be broken.
And at 5 weeks - you haven't "got it".
Do you have a sponsor?
Are you looking at 12 steps.

To be honest - make those your priority right now,- and maybe she might come back at some point. When you have done step 8 and 9, then assess is your marriage salvageable.

Leave her to make peace with her journey, which is as hard for her as yours is for you.

Good luck
(6 years odaat on Wednesday)

Lostinthedark. I'm not gloating over the fact that DS wanted to stay with me, in fact part of me wanted him to be with mum so I could get to an AA meeting.

Re the formal contact agreement I agree, however at the minute this is what works for us, this being because we both work shifts - DS has been staying with me for so long due to the fact that mum is taking him in a trip to see in laws and dsd on thurs. (something that i am not entirely happy about but that's for another thread).

doodler I do have an idea of what I have done, dsd has given it to me straight (19 year old) - but I would say that I never choose to drink - I know I would loved to have turned the tap off (pardon the pun) m, at different times and did try, maybe not hard enough, but at the same time I didn't know what I was losing throwing away.

I'd like to say I don't do the things I did do while drinking (I would have been frugal before but not tight) - I know I have calmed a lot, and I do look at things a great deal differently. Agai. I am not blaming dw- but if she had of say me down and told me some of the things she is telling me now I think it would have been a lot more likely I would have stopped I can't say whether I would have or not for certain, would love to say I would have but not going to lie.

Hi huck there have been almost 11 weeks so far? Yes I am doing the steps - thinking of step 4 but have been told to hold back a bit (I was trying to go too fast with everything)

Look OP, you and your DP built your relationship together, and then you chipped it away over the course of years until it collapsed in a cloud of dust. You're now expecting it to miraculously build itself again now you've stopped chipping, but that's not going to happen.

If your relationship is ever to be built again it will need a lot of work from you and your DP, and it really is no wonder that she isn't feeling keen to do that work. Especially when you keep putting part of the blame for your behaviour on her.

Also, saying 'well I wasn't violent' makes you sound WORSE - because you clearly have no idea of the enormous damage that can be done by words and behaviour alone.

Good luck with the sobriety, but I'd suggest you forget about any idea of rekindling the relationship with your DP for at least a year.

I am also the wife and though my DH and I are still together, that is because he has made the changes. He also knows that any lapse means he is out. I think you are still minimising everything your family has gone through during your drinking days, and saying 'but she should have said it to me then' is completely missing the point. You can't say what needs to be said to an active alcoholic - not only is it utterly pointless, it is also frightening because you don't know what reaction you are going to get.

I think you need to put the idea of any reconciliation on the back burner for at least a year and also prepare for the very real possibility that it will never happen. And really, that will be down to you. Harsh, but there it is.

Glad you are working The programme.
However - the one thing it should be teaching you - is that you hold all the responsibility here. Deflecting or deferring says to me that you need to slow down.

I understand why you want to.
It's almost like a light goes on and you want to shout about it from the roof tops, however recovery is not one upward trajectory. And like every journey sometimes you need to slow down, maybe rewalk parts of the pathway.

It's not about how "fast" you work through the steps, it's about getting them properly.

(I have caught up - well done on 11 weeks - massive achievement)

I would also be careful with your wife's feelings. She is struggling with lots of things and you seem to not think about how you make her feel about her relationship with DS.

She has shielded him from some of you and your behaviours for a long time, and you are suddenly swooping in like the "hero",

You wouldn't change during your marriage, but suddenly are acting like the dad she wanted for her DS all this time - this will hurt like hell for her.

If you still want to salvage your marriage, even though you are not together right now - her feelings should be front and centre in every single thing you do right now.

irene I don't know if you have picked it up wrong, I have not put the blame for my drinking on DW. What I have said is that she didn't tell me how it was making her feel - pointythings has put it out that she couldn't tell me due to the fact that I was an alcoholic and she was unsure how I would have reacted.

The reason I point out that there was no violence is because that is how a lot of people have reacted, that I was a lying cheating violent alcoholic ....I was never violent , I was moody....and didn't want to do stuff due to hangovers. I never cheated or did anything that could be construed as cheating ....and generally I was honest, if I said I would do something I would do it.

I cannot take back what I have done in the past (if I could I would not be on here)

People seem to think I'm gloating and not putting DW first - there have been things that I have done recently for DW that still don't sit well with me, but I done them to make DW happier. I take DS and do what I can with him, DW has been known to take DS to MIL rather than leave him with me when she goes for a night out - said could have made an issue but didn't -again just an example not an excuse.

I'm waiting, I'm trying, I'm not in here for praise (or abuse), I'm on here to try and salvage a marriage that I'm hoping will make dw and I happy. I don't want dw coming back if she is not going to be happy, - I don't want to go back to the way we were just before we split - I want to try and fix it

What pointy says.

One cannot talk to an alcoholic the way you talk to anyone else, yiu have to pick up the right time (and get it wring sometimes), craft your words, minimize the content to avoid a confrontation (in front id the children), etc.

Having said I bet your wife told you in words and action a million times.

If I had kept a 'nice' and caring text I sent to my stbxh to let him know I was worried about the impact his drinking has on his health I'd copy it and paste. It is clear. It is also clear what I do not say, that I hate it, that destroys everything, and that I do not say it because I worry he'll take it like moaning or an attack.

And one more thing, I am leaving this marriage because I do not want 20 more years of this but I also am leaving bevause I think it could be a chance for my xh to see sense and become a better person and a better dad. It is my ultimate effort.
But it will leave indelebile scars: breaking the family because he could not his responsibility? As happy as I'll be for him to stop drinking I am not sure it'll make me want to go back. Not soon at least.

Hope we are not too harsh but you really cannot put any blame on to her.
It'll get her back up as much as it got ours.

Your last post says to me that you need to keep working your programme.
Okay - you didn't cheat, and you weren't violent....hardly makes you the husband of the year. But I guarantee you weren't "emotionally present" in your marriage. Because you haven't been emotionally present in your own life.

You can't fix outside relationships until you fix your relationship with yourself.
And you are working on that - but it's a long journey...that's why AA say no new relationships for a year. Now I know - you think - yep but this is an existing relationship- but it's not - because to make it work - it needs be be "new".

Keep working your programme.
You're getting some brutal answers here this morning, and not necessarily what you wanted to hear.

I would be willing to bet that your DW did everything I did - I talked to my DH. I wrote him a letter. I did all the things a desperate spouse does when their OH is on autodestruct. It was only when I disengaged emotionally, started looking for affordable rental accommodation, started planning my exit that the penny dropped. Someone who is an active alcoholic is not able to listen in the same way that other people are. Alcohol filters out everything they do not want to hear. Alcohol makes a person selfish and self-centred. That is not a personal judgement, it is just how it is - a symptom of the disease that is alcoholism.

Things are better now, but I suspect i will never trust my DH 100% again. That's a hard thing to admit about someone you have built a life with, but it is the truth. It is very likely to be the same for your DW.

pippi is your stbxh still drinking? And how long have you split?

The only reason I ask is that I took action when I realised, again not soon enough, as soon as dw left I booked a rehab appointment- they couldn't take me for three weeks and told me that I had to be 5days sober before assessment - in the midst of all this my alcoholic thinking told me that i had two weeks to drink as much as I possibly could. - it took a week of thinking and getting to grips with myself when I decided to go to an AA meeting.

I have always had issues with going to AA meetings for the following reasons

1. The (perceived) stigma

1. I had a brother who attended AA, who became super religious- something I am not and don't want to be (almost to the point of a religious addict)
2. Said brother in depression took alcohol and then took his own life.

Again I take responsibility for opening the beer and pouring it down my throat, the above didn't make me drink, but it is the reason (and possibly an excuse) why I didn't give up drinking sooner. - again not something I can change - and something I regret even though I have now taken the steps to resolve it.

huck I am getting brutal answers on here, but tbh I welcome them, it makes me see what I need to do.

Step three was hard for me, very hard (see above) but I knew I had to do it.

I think it may be the case that your brother replaced one addiction (alcohol) with another (religion). That suggests he did not have as good a recovery as he might have thought. I don't think you will necessarily go the same way, and as far as I am aware, the 'high power' AA allude to does not necessarily have to be an established deity of any kind. As a hard-nosed atheist I see where you are coming from wrt to religion, that would also make me very uncomfortable.

I think you are taking a lot of hard words on the chin here and doing it well.

pointy I'm taking the hard words "well" because I'm not in here to make myself feel better, or to try and massage my ego - I love my wife, I've loved her from the day and second I met her - we have had issues - my drinking being a massive one.

The reason I'm taking the words well on here is that like AA a lot of people on here have the experience (from both sides) and I'm selfishly trying to draw from that.

You never know I might even help some other poor soul on the way.

Re the higher power, I was brought up Irish catholic, that coloured my idea of the higher power, I'm not arrogant enough to think that I am the be all and end all and think there is something higher and more powerful than me (alcohol being my higher power for a long time) - I do think that sometimes wee nuggets are put in our way for a reason. This just came up on my FB feed;

When things don't happen right away, remember it takes six months to build a Rolls Royce, or 13 hours to build a Toyota.

(Not knocking anyone's choice of cars by the way)

I think you are doing very well re your alcoholism.

However, this is the theme of most of your posts - getting your wife back.

It makes me think this is a massive part of your recovery and that perhaps you are not really as together as you are hoping you are. You need to recover for you and not for someone else or to get back into a relationship.

The truth is really that her life is her own. There is no way one month is enough time to know whether you will sustain your sobriety. PP poster suggested one year before opening discussions, this is to ensure you are able to sustain it.

You need to accept that going back into a relationship with you would be a massive risk for her and the worst of all the choices available to her, never mind that she has stated that the love for you has died.

You could also do with reflecting on going back into a relationship with her would be a good idea for you. It is hard to deal with the end of a marriage at the same time as recovering from an addiction and you may be clinging onto the idea in order to give yourself a bit of hope but really unless you also change your environment when you are in recovery it is much harder to stay away from drink. Going back into that relationship is likely to bring back an awful lot of memories and temptations.

offred you are right, originally the decision to stop drinking was to do with getting my wife back.....I've never denied that, but luckily in a way it's made me realise how much damage drink was doing, not just to the family but to me too...,sobriety is the only thing I am selfish about now....I hate to say it, but I think if it came Dow to a choice between sobriety or a relationship with DW, I would be erring on the side of sobriety.

Re length of time sober and can I sustain it - I can say I'm going to sustain it today, I can say that has worked for me for the past 76 days, and in those 76 days I have dealt with some pretty stressful things. - can I say I'll never lift a drink again? No I can't, and I think that any alcoholic that says that is deludinv themselves.

I know that going back into a relationship would be a massive risk for DW, as I said before I want DW and DS to be happy. Dsd is grown and I don't think I can influence her happiness as she is moved away.

Re the temptations, Back in the relationship there would be triggers that might make me want to start drinking again - but there will always be things that will trigger a thought about drinking, not nessecarily a desire the way there was before, and I'm looking at this from both sides, being in a relationship and not being in a relationship.

Re triggers of being in a relationship with dw, I think I have learnt a solitary lesson already that me drinking while in a relationship with dw isn't going to work and that would result in an end to the relationship with no hope of ever reconciling - and rightly so.

Re hoping for a rekindling if a relationship with dw. I've said it before I love my wife, that's why I'm hopeful, but at eotd in loving my wife I want HER to be happy, and hard as it is, if that means her being happy without me, so be it.

User it is fair to say that it'll be hard for you to know what it feels to live with an alcoholic. As much as for a non alcoholic to know what addiction feels like.

Try to concentrate on your recovery. Give your dw the (mental) space she needs. And let it be.

Sorry user last post was from this morning.

My h is moving out next week. Not in bad terms at the moment, for the kids' sake, for our sake but also because in total honesty I feel I have to thread carefully.

However i have been in the spare room for almost a year. That in itself should be a warning sign. Instead of talking about it h ignores it. Comes home, Says hello to the dc, Has a few beers, eats, sofa tv asleep bed. All the time.
Whilst he does that I talk to the kids, cook, set the table, clean up, do homework, watch tv with them, tell the to read, to go to bed, we laugh, we fight... life happens whilst he sleeps or is zonked out. Not totally drunk mind, just that bit to numb him.
When the kids where little I struggled, because of the amount if work but also because I missed him!!
Now it is much easier as I am so used to him not being emotionally present tand plus the kids are good fun and great company.
But is this a couple? No. it is a flatmate and not a good one as such. Yes he pays his ways and he is not violent and a nice bloke (mostly) but I'd be looking for a better flatmate, let alone a husband.

I am lonely but not alone. I am sick of seeing this thing on the sofa and, as others said, seeing him on the path of destruction. This is somebody I care about, my kids' dad. It is soo painful.

And I do not want to become a bitter woman, I don't want my kids to see a bitter mum snapping and belittling their dad.

(I am telling you this not to make you feel bad, I think you are taking it all very well and I do salute you, but only to give you an hindsight of the world that goes on around the alcholic. Of the hidden pain. If I tell him this straight he'd be all defensive and will attack.)

Not sure h thinks he has a problem. I think he knows that if he admits it he has to do something about it. He has drunk since a young age, his dad drunk, his gf drunk... his masculinity his linked to a beer, the pub. His sense of security is given by the drink. He is naked and vulnerable without it, he doesn't know who he is. I can see that. But what more. An I do?
He knows I have a problem with it. But dismisses it by saying it is not in my culture so I ammnot used to it. He knows it's bollocks.

He may start a recovery program when he goes or he may drink more or he may stay the same. At least I will not have to see him self destruct, I'll have my livingroom back, I won't have to walk on eggshell and I wont have to be a buffer between him and the kids (not as much at least). And I'll be able to think about me, to remember who I am and to see which of my bad points are mine and which were brought about by this.

(Sorry for very long post. I guess I wish I could say this to h but now it is not the time. Maybe in a year.
I hope any of this help. Addiction is awful. I truly wish you the best.)

pippi thanks, especially for your honesty, I think a flat mate is a good way to describe what my relationship was before the split, we did have some good times in the year up to the end but alcoholism and a stressful work thing I had hanging over me pushed more and more to me drinking more -again not an excuse as it didn't open cans of beer and pour them down my throat. Aa talks about the convincer, that being the thing that makes you decide that you need to stop drinking. I think dw leaving was the convincer ir the rock bottom for me.

Aa talks about making amends for the things you have done where possible. I know I have a hell of a lot of making up to do with dw (whether together or not) - the Robles is a lot of the time I didn't know I was hurting dw -esp not in the way that you speak of above.

I'm not looking to attack dw in anyway - and I think where the situation between us is different is that your DH is still drinking whereas I have stopped. I sincerely hope your DH gets the convincer he needs.

For yourself have you thought of Al Anon?

I'm sort of hoping that a few months apart will let us find ourselves, the good and bad, and we can maybe come together again?