Relationship after split caused by alcoholism (and associated behavior)

[user1475360947]

Hi folks,

I have been advised that I may get more of a response to below thread here rather than in Newbies section, there are a few updates which I can add but they don't really change the dynamic of what I am asking.

I'm a male and looking some advice. I am 37 and have recently split from my wife, the main factor in this being the fact that I am an alcoholic (I had been drinking 8 -10 beer per night and probably more on weekends) I am what would be described as a high functioning alcoholic, I got up and went to work in the morning and all the bills etc were paid and paid on time.

My wife left after one of many arguments just over a month ago. She says she had been unhappy for years and had been shielding my step daughter and son from my drinking and moods following drink - I would stress there has never been any violence in our relationship.

There have been issues with dsd ref use of alcohol and drugs - and when she wasn't behaving I may have gone too far in trying to get her to behave (possibly grounding for too long, not speaking to her, or blcompletely banning her from the internet). I have also been grumpy when not drinking the following day. Dsd is now 19 and recently dropped out of university (since, but not related to split with dw)

We also have a son who is ten years old. I also would have been in moods with him or been quick to anger when he did things which he shouldn't (kicking football in house etc)

OH has said that she has been unhappy and hasn't loved me for years, but in the other hand says that she does care for me and the final straw was over her going guarantor for a flat for dsd which I was not happy about (daughter isn't even named on flat lease)

Following split from OH I have enrolled in a recovery programme, they couldn't take me straight away and I immediately started in AA, I am sober today and have been for the past month.

The issue is OH won't take me back, I know I can't expect it straight away or possibly ever but was just wondering if any of you have been through similar and if there is anything I can do....I love my wife and would do ANYTHING to get her back, however she will not do anything to work towards it, won't think of marriage counseling, refused Al anon, and won't even consider going for coffee.

I'd appreciate any advice good or bad, as I say I'm in recovery, have a better relationship with my son and am trying to build bridges with step daughter.

[pointythings]

pippi I recognise so much of myself in that post... I think what has kept me with DH is not just his decision to tackle his drinking, but more his rejoining the family in a way he hasn't in years. He is back. He takes an interest, asks about homework and helps if he can, takes initiatives about things we can do as a family. These are all things we haven't had from him in about 5 years. These are the things that make a family, no flatmates. I think you are right to let your stbxh go.

[userformallyknownasuser1475360]

pointythings the re engaging with family life is exactly what I am trying to do!

Can I ask what made your DH decide to tackle his drinking?

[therealpippi]

User I am happy to be honest because I feel no shame. And I hope my experience can be of some help. I get a lot out of listening and reading about other people's lives. There should be no shame for anyone involved. Shame is like poison.

Thank you pointy. I am looking forward to my new life, I can tell you that. I want to sing Robbie Williams awful new song "I love my life! I am me! I am free!"

One extra layer is what on mn is referred as headfuck. Whilst the partner id olivious you go round and round every conversation, argument, scenario. You question yourself, whether your h is EA, whether you are, etc. It is exhausting. Maybe my h is EA. Maybe not. I have behaved like a crazy woman out of desperation. To quote from popular culture again, Sam said it right on CGMOOH yesterday "there are so many times I can ask you nicely"...

[therealpippi]

Pointy, I wish you all the best and I am so glad your dh saw sense before anything drastic. My kids will be fine but still, we could have done without the extra expense and uncertainty. But life goes its way and we must ride it the best we can.

[therealpippi]

User, yes i have been to al-anon and it was an eye opener. I will def go again once I am more settled. I have also been in therapy for 4 years (!!) trying to work things out - very helpful. But considering all the things that have happen to h I think he should have been the one to go. Again, I do he numbs.

One more thing then I promise I go. The little I know about addiction (h def has addictive personality) is that it tries to feel an emptyness, a disvonfort, an aneasyness. Lonelyness? Shame? Inability to connect? Thing is h always replace smthing with another thing (like possibly your brother). The thing is to try to hang on and face the storm, the pain. It will pass. Try not to fill the gap left by the alcohol with your wife, fill it with you.

[BeautyGoesToBenidorm]

Speaking as someone in recovery, stopping drinking is the easy part - it's staying off it that's bloody hard. That's the real test.

It took me years of recovery and relapse to get to where I am now. I put my little family through a hell of untold misery. I was a very unhappy person who was perpetrating unhappiness with it. I'm very, very lucky to have kept my wonderful family intact.

DH understood why I drank. He didn't enable me per se, but he was utterly helpless to stop me. He didn't turn a blind eye, but I was so bloody sneaky, and had been constantly drinking for so long, sadly he didn't know what sober me even looked like. He had nothing to compare it to.

Your wife is hurting immeasurably, and her patience has been exhausted, her trust and belief in you shattered. Remove yourself from that equation, as hard and heartbreaking as it is, and allow her to begin to heal.

Alcoholism is vile, and truly a family disease. I now work with people in active addiction. Some have gone way past rock bottom, irretrievably, and they've lost everything, including their health. Some are dying on the local hepatology ward, and still drinking, getting their loved ones to smuggle booze into hospital for them. Some are trying to get onto the liver transplant list. Some are trying to get their kids back from care. Some of them have kids and partners who don't want to know anymore.

Only you can know if this is YOUR rock bottom. Keep working at it. Sobriety isn't a linear process, and if it was as simple as quitting and staying quit, alcohol support services wouldn't exist. Try to be kind to yourself on the difficult days, but remember that the responsibility is solely in your hands.

[Doodler2000]

Just something else you may want to think about. Your wife clearly knows that you want her back and that you are sorry for what you have done. just consider this though - if she knows deep down that it is definately a no for her then she may be frightened of telling you that for fear that it will drive you back to the drink. You are putting a lot of emphasis on your relationship being part of the recovery and on top of everything else she is going to worry that you relapse and she has to get your kids through that. You are both in a no win situation. I am a great believer in the phrase 'if you love someone let them go'. By truly giving her the freedom she needs and giving you the space to concentrate on your successful recovery you can both clearly see if what is there now is worth fighting for.
Good luck.

[therealpippi]

Beauty wise and touching words. I admire you.

[BeautyGoesToBenidorm]

therealpippi, thank you, you're very kind I really hope you can begin to build YOUR own happiness, too - you've been through a hell of a time.

[pointythings]

OP I am not sure what has prompted the change, to be honest. I just suddenly noticed that he had cut down massively - not stopped, but down to what most people would class as normal drinking. He says he's doing it because he wants to lose weight - he does not eat well or exercise at all so reducing the alcohol is an obvious easy hit.

He is now starting to eat better, the weight is coming off and he is starting to talk about it now. We are going through tough times with the loss of my dad last week, me being abroad with my mum and him having to carry the family alone, but he's doing it. He's had an additional bereavement too, his brother at the end of September, but where he would previously have dived into a bottle, he is now planning to self-refer back to bereavement counselling. I haven't given him any ultimatums because that would have been counterproductive, so I don't know what is going on in his head.

[userformallyknownasuser1475360]

The only reason I ask pointy is I was wondering if there was a rock bottom for him...

I was hoping to gain some insight into why your relationship survived and my relationship didn't.

[pointythings]

I'm sorry I can't offer more insights right now - DH doesn't like to talk about his drinking. I think there is some shame there, but he's quite reserved in many ways.

I'm not sure there was a rock bottom for him, to be honest. My hypothesis is that what turned it for him was the bereavement counselling he had earlier this year to help him process the loss of his parents, 5 and 9 years ago respectively. He bottled it up, then felt he 'wasn't grieving properly', felt guilty about that and got his head into a toxic mess which led him to drinking. The counselling taught him that there is no 'proper' way to grieve and I think that was vert healing for him.

I nagged and nagged and nagged and nagged and nagged him to get the counselling, btw. Took me a year. I am an obstinate cow.

I do not by any means think he is out of the woods yet. I think he could relapse very easily. However, the loss of his brother hasn't done it and I'm hoping the loss of my dad (they were close) won't either, or that he will seek help. We are all different and handle things differently.

I hope you're getting some useful insights here. You can pm me if you want to ask more questions but don't feel you can ask them on here.

[lostinthedarkplayground]

You missed my point totally, user.
I don't care one toss what your contact schedule looks like because you both work shifts. I am talking about the ridiculous notion of letting your son choose, on the day, between his parents, when there is an opportunity for him to be at either house, and your wife leaving in tears. That has absolutely nothing to do with letting your shifts dictate contact, and everything to do with putting your child into a position where he hurts his mother on your account.
And frankly, if you wanted to go to an AA meeting, at this stage in your recovery, you should have made it clear that there would be no choosing, as you have work to do on your recovery and need to attend a meeting.
Stop with the self righteousness.
You do not offer your child 'where do you want to sleep tonight?' You sort out the schedule with your wife in relation to both your shifts, to the satisfaction of you both, and you tell your son.
That way, you have time to work on your sobriety, your wife does not get hurt further, and your son is not put in the position of being able to hurt his mother. Or you, next time.
I don't want to knock your work so far. But as others have said, the way you are speaking and continuing to link other people with your addiction and your recovery suggests you have a long way to go. Keep working at it. You can do it, but it is very early days.

[userformallyknownasuser1475360]

Lostinthedark I thjnnnuoh may have the wrong end of the stick. DS is normally told where he is going - as I said there is a bit of an issue with contact due to the fact that DS is going on a trip to London with DW and that clashes with normal contact. I had DS for a long while but wasn't going to see him for at least 8 days, hence the choice for DS.

I take issue with your suggestion that this was done as a way to hurt DW, by using DS, it is an assumption without basis. Your comment "stop with the self righteous" also has me puzzled. I have come on here as a male and asked for help, admitted I was alcoholic, admitted previous failings and sought advice, explaining my thought process and asking others to explain where I haven't understood, I have never said that I was right and someone else was wrong...never taken any sort of moral high ground yet you abuse me saying I am self righteous?

Re other people linked Tommy addiction, sobriety and recovery, yes they are all linked to it, believe it or not even as an alcoholic I was a member of a family, other people were hurt too as part of MY addiction- should I not include them in my recovery, not try and make amends for what I did, not try to rebuild family life?

What would you suggest? Lock myself in a tower and castigate myself until I don't drink anymore? Kill myself and leave a note telling everyone how sorry I am for ruining there lives when I was drinking?

Well sorry no, I have done a lot in addiction I am not happy about, - IN ADDICTION- it wasn't a choice, I am trying to repair damage I have done, and your suggestions that I am trying to cause more help are exactly what you described me as - self righteous.

[userformallyknownasuser1475360]

*hurt

[HuckfromScandal]

Gonna jump in here, at your last statement about addiction and choice.
You did things in addictions, -and it was still your choice. The wrong one, the choice of an addict, but very definitely your choice. Because you we still an addict, you will always been an addict, you just make different choices.

You very definitely need to own your decisions from when you were drinking...you can't wipe them all out and say "-I had no choice". you did, you just chose badly.

I agree with the lost about contact.
1 - never (at this stage) let your son choose - it's not fair.
2 - you need to put recovery first. All too easy at this point to make excuses.
3 - you are VERY EARLY recovery, you are doing amazingly, but it's early days. And I have seen many many (way too many) fail at this point, and it's always been the ones who have been "so sure" they have got it.
Please don't be a statistic on this - buck the trend - be one of the really lucky ones who gets it first time!!

[EasyToEatTiger]

Hi User. You are doing well keeping off the grog. Much of the behaviour that surrounds alcohol doesn't leave the moment you stop drinking. Please really try keep out of your family's way while you look after yourself. When you are feeling better about yourself and are further along the line of forgiving yourself, it will be easier to approach them or for them to approach you. I don't think people make a decision to become an addict. I don't think it is a clear-cut choice. Nobody decides to have alcohol as a best friend at the cost of everything and everyone else.

[userformallyknownasuser1475360]

Hi Easytiwat

I can't keep away from the family as there is cintact with DS.

I have sat today and wrote a letter to DW, about some of the issues we were/are having, not sure if I'm going to send it or not. I've been careful in it to not make excuses and not to blame others, where it is glaringly obvious someone had done something they shouldn't I've said in the letter that it is about what I have done, not others.

I just wish I knew where I was about a year or so down the line.

[HuckfromScandal]

For the love of all things
Don't send the letter.

You want to run before you can walk.

Just concentrate on being a good dad.

• a good man.
  

If it is going to work with your wife, you constantly pushing and writing and pestering will most certainly make sure that never happens...
Please please listen to me.

[pontificationcentral]

I think you underestimate the hurt you have caused, user. In using addiction as a scapegoat, you are expecting your wife to be able to separate the hurt that you have caused to her and your son, and the damage to your family away from you and hang it on 'addiction'.
Of course, you are able to do this. You see it as a separate entity, and one that is no longer a part of you.
But it is you that has hurt your wife, your son, and your family.
At this point, you and your addiction are completely entwined in her mind.

It is going to take some time as a sober man and a sober parent for her to be able to separate you from your addiction.
You rocking up and chirruping about how dry you are, and how wonderful life is, and whisking your son away, will stand in dramatic counterpoint to how fucking abysmal her life has been for years.
It's not an overnight fix.

I've seen my friend do what you are doing about twelve times in the last four years. She gets pissed off, frustrated and irritable that no one can see how fucking amazing she is dry, and how everyone blames her for her illness/ addiction, and how unfair it all is, because she doesn't drink any more, and fuck me, she's fantastic.

When she drinks, she is an abusive bitch.

But when she's sober, she expects everyone to ignore how terribly she has treated them for years, how much she has hurt them, and how her behaviour has affected their own mental health in terrible, awful, life long ways.

But hey, she's sober! Pink clouds everywhere!

It is not possible for the friends and family of an alcoholic to immediately segregate a history of damaging behaviour from you just because you have decided you don't drink anymore.

It's going to take a bloody long time for her to trust you. You writing letters to assign blame is not going to help at all. Friends and family of alcoholics are quite used to the lying, the twisting of arguments and facts, and the inability to accept blame, except where it is being offered as a deal to whatever the alcoholic wants. Alcoholics are by their very nature extremely selfish, and will stop at nothing until they get what they want.

You deciding you want your wife and son back, whether or not she feels the same way, is an extension of this entitled behaviour, even though you don't recognize it as such.

You still have a lot of work to do.

[Wildberryprincess]

User, you are still lacking insight into how horrible your behaviour has been. I'm feeling angry just reading your posts. Obviously I have my own experiences, which would have been similar to your wife's, which are being triggered by the excuses you are coming out with. Well done on your recent sobriety, but 10 odd weeks does not make up for the years of shit.

You describe yourself essentially 'not violent, but moody' - you haven't a f*ing clue how that sort of behaviour effects those you were moody/grumpy around. For how many years? You would have made your wife's life hell. And you still don't get it.

I'm sorry for being intolerant, but I can imagine how your wife feels. You obviously can't just yet.

[HuckfromScandal]

^^
Yes
Exactly what both these people have said.
you are so far from being anything other than an alchoholc who doesn't drink that you cannot see it.

You're wife would be totally insane to take you back at this juncture.
Becisse I guarantee you would drink again.

Stop.
Look at yourself.
And stop looking outside for blame, recriminations and absolving of responsibility.

You may be an alcoholic, but you chose to drink and be an arsehole with it.
You can chose not to drink, but whether you can stop being an arsehole remains to be seen.

I've seen a lot of people who have gotten sober - who still behave like selfish pricks
Try not to be one of them.

[userformallyknownasuser1475360]

Folks,
I'm not making excuses, I am an alcoholic, have been for years, and should have gotten help years ago, there are various reasons why I didn't, but yes I should have got help sooner.

Controlling the addiction didn't work for me, and I did try, sometimes this made things worse, I ended up in worse moods at times when I was sober and trying to control drinking, than I did when I was drinking (think a Weds night when craving a drink since Sunday but knowing a I couldn't get one until work finished on a Friday)

The reason for the letter was for me to take responsibility for what I know I have done, and part of that was to sit down and concentrate on what I have done so that I can see what I have done. Dw would have (;prior to meeting me, and to this day still) done anything to avoid confrontation, this would include telling me when she was annoyed or not happy. I am trying to empathise and see what life was like for DW...so that I can make amends

Pontification, you made s comment about wanting my wife back no matter what she wants, that isn't true, I know firstly that there is no point in hat because six weeks or months down the line we would be in the same position. I love my wife, I want my wife to be happy, and I've said it in here a number of times, although I want that to be with me, if it takes her to be happy without me so be it.

[Aussiebean]

I think the problem that people are trying to point out is that you haven't taken all the responsibility.

You talk about writing the letter to take responsibility for your action, but you HAVE to mention that your wife always avoid conflict. There have been a few posts where you needed to point out that she didn't tell you how hurt she was. No matter how bad you were, you HAVE to mention her blame

If you were feeling really responsible for your own action you would not have even mentioned it. You would have not given her any of the blame.

Have a re read of the letter. Is there any part of it where you say to her 'if only you had told me how bad it was!' ?

[userformallyknownasuser1475360]

Aussie bean....I took your advice and have gone through the letter again...there isn't. I don't say that to be smug, but hopefully to give a bit of insight into the spirit of the letter. The letter is for me to take responsibility for what I have done.

Dw did avoid conflict, I don't know why, it. Could be because of the way I acted...but I don't know.

Again not blaming dw....the only thing I could see happening at the time was that I was drinking too much...because I was drinking I didn't notice the other things, or possibly and more likely didn't care. The thing is I can't make amends if I don't know what I did?

If I wasn't taking responsibility it would be very easy for me just to ignore the comments on this thread call everyone assholes and go back to doing things my way