Ex wife am I doing it right or am I fool.

[1DAD2KIDS]

Fist of all some basic background to where I am today. My ex wife and former love of my life had an affair a left me and the kids for another man. She was always a difficult woman but I loved her all the same. When I was in the relationship I was blind to the abuse I was under. She would go off her head at me for the littlest thing, she would put me down, attack me sometimes and as well as the affair she had been lying to me about all sorts for years mainly to undermined my trust in my closest friends and family. Because of her lies I nearly lost some good friends. I was blind to all this because I trusted her 100%. She tore my world and kids worlds apart.

Anyway role on to the present. I live with the kids and she lives 100 miles away. We get on fine now and I get no abuse from her (on the whole she is sound). I know the above paints her in a bad light but despite it all I don't think she is evil just a messed up person. I think I married a fraud, maybe she was trying hard to be someone deep down she wasn't. M best guess is some sort of personality disorder. The household is a lot calmer with her gone. The main problem is she is a compulsive liar. I really don't think she knows what the truth is anymore. Her life is a mess I know that. It didn't work out with the bum she left us for (the best way I can describe the bloke, he was no catch). I don't love her anymore (never thought I would say that) but it seems I have some sort of responsibility for her. She has totally fucked her life up and has nothing. Its is a bit of a pain that she lies all the time. She has just told me that she has had to have a few days off work because she has had a break down. That wouldn't surprise me as I often worry about her mental health and I think the enormity of the way she's fucked her life up is starting to kick in now she has no one to look after her. We had it all really. But the trouble is I never really know is this is the truth or a lie to work things to her advantage.

So it is working like this for us. We get on fine now. She is nice to me (not that she was always horrible we have lots of nice loving memories too). I help her out with stuff like her car. No point hating her. We sometimes do things together with the kids. We always spend Christmas together with the kids and we are going on our first little break away together with the kids soon for a couple of night (separate rooms). I think it could be very good for her as it will probably be the only holiday she gets this year. I have paid for the accommodation and will be driving us all up. I will probably have to pay for nearly everything as she say she always skint (that probably is the truth as she earns little working in a popular fast food place). I don't really mind as I am fairly comfortable and it would be the same if we were still married as she never brought in an income. I just hope we all have a nice time (that I am confident we will to be fair) and that it helps my ex wife to perk up a bit and feel a bit happier.

So my question really is am I mad (I know I am in general) to be so friendly with my ex, care about her wellbeing and still supporting her to some extent? Especially after the hurt and abuse she has caused me? Should I be making the excuses I do for her actions because I think she has problems or is she in reality just a dick?

I mentioned future relationships, whatever your intention maybe, hers may not be the same as yours and so your arrangement could not continue.

I stand by my first post, I fear you're setting your kids up for future hurt despite your best intentions.

Being kind and compassionate to her , and ensuring a good relationship for the sake of the kids isn't a bad thing.

Just make sure you have strong boundaries and don't act as her enabler. People with mental health/addiction issues usually have to hit rock bottom before they will seek the help they need to heal. Be careful that your actions (though well meant) aren't stopping her from reaching that point.

Sorry to keep harking on about this but why is she struggling financially when you aren't? I get that you have the children full time so you're not paying maintenance. Wasn't there any equity that she's entitled to some of? Is she in a minimum wage job because she sacrificed her career to have the children? I really really do think that if you want to support her, equalising the finances and access to the children is the way you need to go, not taking her on holiday.

I've read your other threads. She's an abuser. A full on, physical abuser. And I believe you.

So why on earth are you sending her these mixed messages, and your children?

So no, I don't think you're doing it right, sadly.

You're the crutch that keeps her from standing on her own two feet. You are no longer responsible for her and need to move on. Why the holiday?

You deserve more from life.

I think you sound like you are too invested in her to move on; and you are doing it to make yourself feel better.
I think the questions of whether the financial split was fair, and whether she has fair access to the DC, are more likely to help in the long run.
You want to help her but you call her an oddball, and your friends are saying she was an oddball too. The best help you can give her is giving her space and her legally and morally fair share of marital assets and contact with DC and from there, you both rebuild your lives as a separated family.

In some ways, ask yourself if you want to help or if you want her to sort her life to be the kind of person you want her to be (whereas she is the person she is). You cannot mould a person to be as you wish or as you wish your children's mother to be. That is actually fairly controlling.

As for it being easier with two parents, maybe in practical terms but plenty of single parents negotiate a water park and more with age gap DC. You need to get used to it. It is the reality of your life (and hers). It is certainly not easier in emotional terms if there are not clear boundaries (and you have got either your saviour hat on or your control hat, not sure which).

I think it is fine to be friends. It sounds like she is a decent woman who was in the wrong relationship. Now you are both out of that relationship you get on better. You will always be co parents, so it is a good thing for your kids that you get on.

It's her own fault she's in a dark place and has no one. That's general what happens when you treat other people like shit.

Its not kicking a dog when it's down to allow her to feel he full force of her actions. It won't kill her to not have a holiday if she can't afford one. (I haven't had one in 8 years!)

First you say you "help her out with stuff like the car" and now you're saying you're only paying for the holiday. Which is it?

Her having a disorder does not make you a failure. You tried your best, but relationships only work if both parties put in the effort to make it work. She had an affair for years, she obviously couldn't give a flying fuck about you.

And I agree that holidaying together is a bad idea. It's great if you can do stuff like parents evenings, school plays together, but as a child of divorce it would have been incredibly weird and confusing to have my parents together on holiday.

If this thread was written by a woman about her ex husband, you'd be being told left, right and centre he's a nasty abusive piece of work and you should minimise contact between you. But yet again, the MN double standards are out in force.

Sounds to me like you are treating her like another child.

I think you're wrong and you're enabling her and basically telling her that the way she treated you was ok. Saying it'll make the holiday better to take her is just your way of justifying it. You could take another family member or friend. I don't think you should give her a penny or pay for her. She's telling you she can't pay due to being skint: have you insisted on taking her and she doesn't really want to go?

She's treated you like dirt, yet it sounds like you're still dancing to her tune. You're being a mug. The DC's are all that matter here

I see the benefit in what you're doing. You get a little bit of help with the kids and she gets to spend time with them.

As you said, you wouldn't be able to do some things with your daughter and your son as he's too young.

Your very firm that you would never get back with her, so I can't see the downside of this arrangement.

There is lots of food for thought and many differing opinions. That exactly what I am looking for different views. Thanks for so much input. I think there may be a few misunderstandings.

Joys of mum - she is her own person and hopefully she will form a new relationship, she has a lot more freedom too. And of course that may change how she wants to do parenting.

HeddaGarbled an others regarding her financial situation. We have made a fair settlement considering all the factors. We both think it is fair and both agree. It is not yet complete but once done she has a load of cash coming her way to set her up. Although I do ok now it not there is a tone of capital to split. It has been hard graft to get to where I am now. Although the Armed forces paid OK there was the constant cost of a new family and setting up a civilian home when I left. She has basically walked at the point where we could have both put our feet up a bit. From the point I met her (way before the children) she has contributed little. Normally on lasting in a job about 6 months before she would get bored and quit. She never liked any of the jobs she done but would never try and educator her self for a better job. Its like she felt she was entailed to a high profile job but would never do the work to be worthy of one. I didn't think it mattered as I earned enough for both of us. So when the children came she didn't quit anything to raise them, it was just the continuation of the status quo. Oh am to clarify she has as much access as she want to the kids. I keep trying to encourage her to see them more.

LineyReborn - see has been an abuser I can see that now. I you probably know from the passed she has gave me no end of worries. Had me constantly paranoid of the motives and some of her proposed hair brain schemes and thinking. Things have calmed down now. One because she is not with her that man I had loads of concerns about, two because she does text me with any crazy ideas anymore and three I think that she is actually being reasonable and not out to get me.

madgingermunchkin - I suppose it is a mater of karma. But I don't want to see her ruined, what good does it do anyone? Especially the kids. But sometimes you do reap what you sow. Just to clarify it was not a long affair. It had been going for about a month when I found out. She was completely besotted by him. It was her step cousin and they used to date years ago just after she turned 17 (He was in his 30's with a wife and kids I think at the time too). He's not a pleasant man and I do think he may have turned his attention to her again when she was in a vulnerable state just after the birth of our son. So they did have previous together.

I have taken the kids away a lot on my own and we have an awesome time. But there are somethings they cant do together, like go on certain rides. Mainly my older daughter misses out on some stuff.

As to the holiday it is not for my ex's pleasure. Its for the kids. I know I will get a slap on the wrist for this but my ex invited her self sort of. I said I was taking the kids. She said it would be helpful if she came. To be fair I thought that wasn't a bad idea, the kids would love it. So yes SandyY2K maybe I am a bit of a Mug but if all it brings is good what's the harm.

I think often the proof is in the pudding. I think things are not perfect but on the other hand its working well IMO. We talk and communicate well. We have agreed on a divorce without argument of bitter fighting. We make arrangements about the kids without any problems of arguments. The kids see that although we are not together we work fine together to do things for them. We cooperate on loads of stuff and although I am the resident parent I try to keep her in the loop and involved because at the end of the day she is still their parent too. It must be good for the kids to see their separated mum and dad cooperating well and pleasantly. Yes I know there is chinks in the plan and I am a bit soft on her. Doji your right I do need to lay better boundaries. But you constantly hear about toxic divorces, kids being used as pawns, parents trying to sabotage each other or just some of the pure hate towards each other. I can be doing it all that wrong surely?

Stop making excuses for her. No one is talking about ruining her.

If she had unexpectedly got her self into a financial hole because her car had died, etc. I would feel sorry for her and think you were a decent bloke doing the right thing by the mother of your children.

But this woman is a manipulative bottom feeder who is just taking advantage of you. She didn't contribute anything before she had children. She's never had to maintain a job because she's alway had gullible men picking up the tab. It's you at the moment, until she gets a new boyfriend, then when it's over with him, it will be back to you again. You say it's ok now, but what about in 10 years time? Do you still want to be bankrolling her? Or when your kids have both left home? Or what if you meet someone else and decide to get remarried? You think your new wife is going to be ok with shelling out for a feckless ex wife?

You are not doing her any favours. Like addicts, she needs to hit rock bottom before things will change. But you won't let her hit rock bottom

She is not your responsibility. As long as you have done right by her in the divorce, you need to hold your hands up and walk away. Because it will get harder and harder to end this the longer it goes on. She will never change unless you stop being an idiot, because she doesn't have too.
There is no reason she cannot get a job.

There is a difference between being a decent human being, who puts their children first and maintains a civil relationship with their ex for the sake of the kids.
However you have long since crossed that line and ridden over the horizon. You're now in Gullible Fool territory.

You seem like a nice bloke who's just trying to make everyone happy, but you can't. Your ex wife is an adult and is responsible for her own life and happiness.

I think that most kids of separated parents secretly hope that mom and dad will get back together. I know mine did, even years after we split up.

I think all going on holiday together is giving them mixed messages and that isn't fair.

You say you don't want them to miss out - but they won't if you take them away. They will be having a holiday with their loving parent. Who cares if she misses out? That's her problem and her fault I'm afraid

I think it sounds to me like you are co-dependent and that, to a certain extent, she's still controlling you.

I think you need to toughen up and seriously cut all ties with her that don't directly affect the kids' welfare

By the way I speak as a person who has an excellent relationship with my exH (did of my DC). We are civil, pleasant, have a chat about family and stuff (football, music) when we see each other. We co-parent and do so in a friendly, grown up manner. But I would find it very very odd to go on holiday with him.

I think you're amazing and your ex wife is very lucky. Continue putting your dcs first and do whatever feels right for you and your family. Who cares what anyone else thinks, as long as you're happy with the situation. Hope you all have a great holiday.

While it's not a bad thing to do things together for the sake of your DCs, you have to protect your own mental health and set boundaries that stop enabling her destructive behaviour - that is not "kicking a dog when it's down", it is being realistic in your expectations of both yourself and your ex. You will never move on and find happiness while you are maintaining unreciprocated responsibility for another adult.
I know a few separated people that struggle to accept that their children have a deeply flawed other parent (chaotic, mental health issues etc) and it's only natural to want the best for your children, including having two positive, nurturing parents, especially if that was your experience. However you couldn't change her when you were together so you sure as hell can't now you have separated. You can maintain a friendly co parenting relationship, but to try to change her by facilitating holidays is setting you both up for failure.

I agree you're a really good man and father. I don't think you're a mug, because her coming is to the advantage of you and your DD especially.

It makes it easier for you and it certainly beats hearing one parent badmouth about the other to the children, or squabbling over custody.

Sometimes in life, you can do something that doesn't affect you so much, but it is very advantageous to the other person. That's called a win/win.

I wish you all the best.

I would tread very carefully. She sounds very unstable but she is not your responsibility any more, how would she be if you met someone else?

It's great you can get on now and discuss the children, that a big positive but on the down side I can't help but think she is either a. Using you and b. Nudging her way back in. Or maybe she isn't and its just great that you can get on and she is in a better place. Either way for your sake and also for the sake of not sending out the wrong message to your children I think you should slowly distance yourself. If you or she met someone else it's unlikely they would be happy with you two spending Christmas and holidays together.

Thank you everyone for your insight and support. I was talking to my mum today and she told me something my ex's mum said to her and I think she hit the nail on the head (My in-laws are great by the way and her family has always been there for me and the kids). Her mum said that she didn't think that my ex has got a maternal instinct. I think she is right because I don't think my ex copes well and sometimes ducks out of her time with the kids. There is something that I cant put my finger on. When she is with the kids there is sort of awkwardness I spot. She talks to them and cuddles them etc but there is something not there and I don't know what it is if that makes sense? I can never remember her playing any sort of role-play type stuff with my daughters character toys such as the Happy Land range. There was always a reluctances to play any sort of imaginative play. I seriously wonder about a personality disorder? Maybe I was the kids that broke our relationship because she couldn't hack it?

Just so everyone know I don't support my ex financially. Well apart from this holiday of course. Even with her car I haven't spent anything. I just know a bit about cars and fixed a couple of things to keep her on the road (she bought the parts). She text me today and said she cant afford Blackpool. I am not disappointing the kids so I said just bring your self if you want to come, I will cover it. I had sort of budgeted for her anyway. But normally I don t bank role her.

She said she has been to the doctors today. She has been given medication and it looks like she wont be going back to work till after Christmas. She also said she wished she got help after our first child.

Iamdobby63 I am always guarded about my ex trying to come back. If she ever is/did try she would be very disappointed. I think maybe she is using me as a bit of a crutch. Buy the way just to let people know she has never been a gold digger. She never wanted or asked for expensive material things from me when we were together. In fact like me she was never frivolous in her spending. But of course a side effect of contact with her is constant vigilance.

Also I am loathed to rock the boat until the divorce and financial matters are complete. It has all been going smoothly and I wouldn't want to risk turbulence. I will be happy when I am home and dry.

On the whole I think although unconventional the results seem to good and far better than I anticipated. The trouble is I have always had a positive out look on life. I have always try my best to turn any defeat in to a victory or at least provide the most positive outcome. I always try and look at using what could work rather than focusing on what is destroyed. I think its the engineer in me. Often results in some out of the box thinking. Thank for making me aware of some of the pitfalls the method. I am simply trying my very best to salvage the best outcome from a bad situation for the kids. That's all I can do. Its a little trial and error of course. But there is some tweaks needed and a few back up plans for the future.

So here is my plan. I think what is needed is a planned tactical retreat. I think once the divorce and financial matters are done and dusted that will be the perfect point to provide cut some cords. In a way that will a physiological (as well as legal) end of our union. At this point she will have her money to start afresh. A point at which I can say on certain things you go your own way now. Hopefully we can still continue to work well together for the kids. Despite what some have said I would still be happy to do things together with the kids. I don't see the harm as long as we a clear with the kids the nature of the situation. Hopefully they can see both parents love them and we are doing our best for them. But in the future she will need to pay her own way. Sounds like it could work to me.

So here is the plan

Your first paragraph above OP, about the lacking maternal instinct. I get what you mean, my ex was like this with our kids. The best way I can articulate it is it seemed forced, not spontaneous or natural. Does that make sense? As though he was playing a role, not really feeling it?

I think you're a kind and considerate man, so as long as you stick to boundaries to stop yourself getting hurt, your idea is good. A man who puts his kids first is a special man indeed. I hope you meet someone you deserve.

When do you anticipate the divorce finalised?

Just be careful, you will find the majority of children dream of Mummy and Daddy getting back together.

I do repeat that it is great going forward that you and your ex can come together for the children but I do think at some point Christmas and holidaying together will be a step too far.

Your plan is pretty good, just back off gradually when the time is right.

1 DAD ....I'm ashamed to say I did the very same thing....family holiday abroad that we had never had the chance to do before...like you ex has left...then went down hill very quickly after ow dumped him....lots of scary acting out ...broke and just so sad to see it..especially as I still love him😕....he agreed to go for " sake" of dcs...we had a few tense moments..but did enjoy it....In return he went back to his life and went down further...drinking...finally d iagnoised with bipolar and personality disorder. But he never changed his time that I was the cause and made him unhappy...even glimpsing what he was missing was not enough to work on drinking and mental health....the up shot it took 3 years before I really have up on him and in that time out id all through unnecessary stress. I did it will all good intentions...😕 I've ha to look at my own agenda..codependant..enabled..what ever you want to call it. But I really loved him. The scales have fallen..he's lives to another country and found some on else but still continues to have crisis. ..which he still texts me about. But now I ignore. Sending you guys..but really think why you are doing this.

Cary that sounds about right. She goes through the motions but there is something not quiet right. Its sometime looks sort of like she has to try quiet hard to be a mum. I really don't think it comes natural to her. I feel sorry for her because society can not tolerate a mother who doesn't feel maternal. It must be a lonely place. The irony is I was never fussed on having kids in the first place. She persuaded me. Then she wanted another, mainly because she wanted a boy. She got one and a beautiful at that. Plus he is brilliant and easy going; started sleeping through after 4 weeks and is so calm, happy and easy going. And yes of course kids will want their mummy and daddy back together (to be fair my boy is only 18 months and will never know any different). What kid wouldn't. That's why it is so important to me to communicate clearly the truth of the situation.

Iamdobby63 hopefully before Christmas. Honestly it will be a huge weight off my shoulders. If nothing else I will know where I stand and can plan my future finances. Honestly I cant wait for that burden to be lifted.

That is sad story onanotherday. I am sorry it turned out so bad. In the back of my mind I do worry that the realisation of what she has lost could make her worse. I think I need to work on setting clear boundaries such as I am not here to be your councillor or help with your emotional shit. I need to make the only subjects for discussion is the kids and how we work together regarding this. And of course the usual pleasantries you would normally talk to an acquaintance with. But I do worry about her going off the rails completely because I want the kids to have a mum who has it together. I am glad she is getting help but lets face it the NHS is really struggling to provide mental health care.

As to the Christmas and other key events in the kids life's I am just trying to be fair. We are both their parents. Why should any of us miss out on those key moment. Since we can get alone fine we should be both there. And as she lives 100 miles away its not like I can have them in the morning and pop them to hers later sort of thing. As to this maybe not working in the future that could be true. We can always tweak things down the line. Main thing is I am confident we can be fair to each other.

The strange thing is I am stuck with her family (not saying it a bad thing per se). Her parents love me like a son and her sisters and my nieces and nephews in law are all really fond of me. They all live up there where she lives. They are all still part of my life. Her step day is gutted and very hostile to wards her. Her mum is angry too but I can sense she is really worried for her daughter. I feel gutted for all of them too.