Proposal Debacle... am I stupid to feel this upset about the whole thing?

[gillybeandramaqueen]

I will try to keep this concise!

4 year relationship. 2 kids under 3.

Marriage had never ever even been spoken about until:
June this year when we were on holiday and my other half asked me on the last night of our holiday what I would say if he asked me to marry him? There was no ring or anything, I thought we were just chatting about it. Then he told me that this was him proposing. I told him it was a totally out of the blue surprise that he was bringing it up and that we should chat about it properly when we got home from our holiday.

5 days later was my birthday at home. I could tell he was trying to build up to something as he had asked me to buy a bottle of something at the supermarket. Our young kids were in the throes of bedtime havoc so nothing happened.

Then, he presented me with a card and a jewellery gift bag saying to me 'there's your birthday present' and that was it. There was no flowers or anything like that, nothing else, no 'To Mummy' birthday cards or any token things from our kids.

I opened the bag up and much to my surprise there was a ring in it - a yellow gold diamond ring. I was totally surprised. I wasn't expecting it at all but also because I have always only worn silver jewellery.

Anyway. I said thank you to him and about what a surprise it was. I asked him if he would mind if we took it to the shop to exchange it for a silver-toned ring. He was absolutely fine with that. All he really said was that he didn't want a big fancy expensive wedding. I was fine with that as I would much prefer for any money that we had to be put towards a bought home.

All in all the whole engagement/birthday was pretty unromantic but it was fine. I was fine with it.

Two days later we went to the shop. I discovered that the ring had cost him £200. I was quite surprised. I am not materialistic but he earns around £600 per week so it seemed a strange choice by him. The problem was that there was very little alternative rings at that budget in white gold.

Anyway the upshot of it was I got a beautiful ring which he was also pleased with that cost £1500. It was a happier day nothing to do with the cost of the ring but it was a really beautiful ring and everything seemed a lot more personal and lovely.

So that was it for two whole months. Not one discussion followed about anything to do with engagement, marriage, weddings or anything. I thought that was part of the fun of engagement... that the couple would at the very minimum have a wee chat about when they might tie the know, how it might be done, at home, friends, family, exotic beach... but not one discussion. Since he was the one who brought up the proposal for the very first time in our 4 year/2 kid relationship... I assumed that he had given it even just a wee bit of though. One evening, I brought it up, 2 months after we got the ring. When I asked him when he was thinking he might like to get married and how, he said he didn't know, maybe in about three years time. I thought to myself why would we be waiting such a long time if we weren't going to have to save for a big lavish affair? He said he hadn't really given any of it any thought... and he basically told me I was 'bursting his nut' about it. Anyway, I was very upset at this and felt like the whole thing was very half-hearted on his part.

So I gave him the ring back. And I asked him to give it back to me one day once he had given it proper and serious consideration... you know, the whole thing. I felt really hurt and upset by the fact that HE had brought the whole issue up for the very first time but that when I brought it up 2 months later just casually to chat about it... he seemed reluctant. All he said was that he had asked me because he loved me and wanted to prove his commitment to me. But I just feel like, well, he wants to show his commitment to me but not for about another 3 years?! So why the hell did he propose to me? Why did we get engaged? What was the point?

Am I being ungrateful? Am I reading too much into it.

It's been 4 months since his proposal and it's been 2 months since I returned the ring to him. He's still paying it up and it's sitting in it's box in his sock drawer.

I feel like the entire thing was a total farce and I feel really shit about the whole thing. And I miss my ring!!

What, and you don't get to go back to them and say "I don't think you've really thought this through darling, and I'm a little disappointed. Come back to me when you're really ready to do this and we could perhaps give it another go"?

Really? FFS

TBH I think it has more to do with the fact that the OP and her DP have never even touched on the idea of marriage that is the issue, hence he had no idea what it was she might want. And actually, maybe he's just not the romantic type.

The OP and her DP have been together for four years and already have two DC. Which to me would imply that actually they've had very little time together to be in a relationship before DC came along to change that. There's very little time to get to know someone if your whole relationship is based on being pregnant and then having the resulting children. As such, the OP and her partner have only just reached the point of talking about the future, because the future mapped itself for them at the point the OP fell pregnant with their first baby (I'm guessing it wasn't planned so early on into the relationship? Not a criticism, just an observation).

So now he's thinking that perhaps they should get married, and she's wanting the gesture and the thought-out proposal and ring. But they're not on the same wavelength communication-wise because they've never talked about the possibility of being married before now.

Once again it's down to lack of communication between them both. OP's partner has acted on his thoughts of marriage without, it seems, romantic attachment, and OP has acted on the fact her (unknown to her DP) expectations have not been met and has thrown the proposal and the ring back at her DP.

They've both acted as individuals, instead of communicating as a couple.

I think you've had an unnecessarily hard time here Gilly and I understand what you mean.

My ex-fiancé did something similar. After 4 years happy years together he proposed out of the blue with a cheap ring a colleague had helped him buy on his lunch break. It wasn't the cheap ring that was the issue, it was the lack of thought - he did 3 days of research online to buy himself new speakers but took the opinion of someone who'd never met me to choose my ring However I sucked it up because I loved him.

Afte he had proposed it was like 'job done' I believe that the point of a proposal is to get married - not immediately, but at some point. I'd have been happy with the registry office and a pub, but he wouldn't even discuss it. It was like in his head the proposal was totally separate to an actual wedding and he didn't see why one had to lead to the other. He was uncomfortable discussing the engagement or any plans and got angry when I tried to talk about it. We split up about a year later, I just couldn't get over his thoughtlessness over the ring and his unwillingness to actually follow through on his proposal. Tge whole thing just felt like it was part of a marriage 'tick box exercise' that was never actually going to lead to a happy marriage.

Fundamentally communication was the issue.

You need to know if you're on the same page

Ah Costa, ye of few manners words.

gilly I think you are upset because what your DP did was so far away from what you 'imagined' would happen when he was to going to propose.

That's the discrepency that is the issue here.

The problem of course is that, if you have never talked about marriage before, there he had no idea what you were expecting.
And you had no idea of what he expects either (re big or small wedding, the proposal etc...).

You also need to remember that he doesn't have to do the whole proposal/wedding stuff yoour way. If his idea of a wedding is a very low key stuff, his pov might be in total opposition to yours but it won't make any more or less 'worthy' than yours. Or he might have no precise idea and is trying hard to 'do it right' (which sounds like he did re the ring for example) but with actually no clue as so what is supposed to happen.

Basically, you need to talk!

WannaBe I'm not sure that the DP has 'no romantic attachment' as such. But he might not be romantic or see the point of making such a big fuss over something like this, when really, they've done so much already (2 dcs to start with!) that should be the sign of their attaché net and engagement towards each other.

He might also well have some 'strange' ideas such as 'women organise weddings and men don't have a clue or aren't interested' type thing. Who knows??

Skimmed to the end because I'm clearly reading a different OP to everyone else...

My DH proposed off the cuff with no prep and no ring. We bought a ring together that cost £200. So far so similar.

Except DH clearly wanted to get married. He was excited. He told people. He talked about the wedding, he talked about setting a date. He didn't bite my head off any time I mentioned it.

To me, it doesn't sound like your DP is that bothered. So yes, IMO you did exactly the right thing to give him the ring back, tell him to think about what he wants and give you the ring again if he really does want to be married because that's what he wants, not because it's what he thinks you want.

I think you are getting a very hard time here OP! It's obvious what you're saying, the whole "I'm a bride to be" part isn't in existence. I'm typing on my phone so will keep it short. Is he ever romantic? Demonstrative? Into big gestures? And - are you? I a way you sound a bit similar - you were quite pragmatic rather than emotional when the two conversations came up.

Maybe he's feeling a bit kicked in a way he can't articulate? I really think you should speak to him. This might be a massive misunderstanding. And good luck! X

Totally with you OP ( have only read page 1). It was a shit proposal and he's shown no interest in planning a wedding. Id have given the ring back too. The problem you've got now is what happens next!

I wonder whether the OP's partner was hoping she'd confirm what sort of wedding she was hoping for before he chimed in. It sounds like both attempts at a proposal in his own way went wrong for whatever reason so maybe he wanted to let the OP weigh in first.
He obviously wants to marry you, he brought it up after all. Just maybe he thinks you will be unhappy with his choices and wanted to hear yours first.

Good post Shelagh.

I agree - he really doesn't sound that interested. Is it possible that someone - his mother? - has put the idea into his head that he ought to propose now and he's done it, he thinks that he's done enough and is irritated that you keep "going on about it "! The commitment and excitement of an actual marriage seems to have passed him by, iyswim.

Sounds to me like one of those situations where a woman has all sorts of romantic ideas about the proposal, the ring, the wedding planning together, the whole sparkly thing. But she hasn't registered that the man she plans to marry isn't a mind reader. Or one of the great romantics.

I think it's fair to say that most men have very little interest in planning weddings. You do get some but most of the time it's the bride and her mum/sister/mates. Things like rings don't mean a lot to most men. That doesn't mean they don't care about their marriage, just the trappings.

Lots of girls dream about their wedding. Boys not so much.

My DH proposed to me when we were both stark naked in a very dingy flat. I never got a ring. We hadn't much money and I wasn't fussed. My mum helped me plan the wedding. I could tell how much he loved me when he tried to take an intelligent interest in fonts for the flipping invitations.

Like Somerville I'm a widow, and what matters to me looking back aren't any of the material things. It's how he felt about me. How we felt about each other.

Do you want to be married to each other? That, surely, is the question.

Rotten bastard the wrong ring not carried by singing bluebirds LTB.

I don't think the issue is the ring. I think it is the half hearted commitment that it represents. A 4 year relationship, where the OP has given birth to two children. That's pretty fast going, then he does a half hearted ' What do you think about marriage?' and then wants to wait another 3 years for the marriage? And not even a definite? OP can't plan anything, or tell anyone, or have a party because that is a step towards the wedding day and ultimately marriage, which this isn't. After my kitchen table proposal, my DH went to the registry office and booked a date for about 6 weeks later! I had to go back and change it, as I'm a teacher and my students had their GCSEs that day, it was far too soon, but at least it demonstrated a proper intent!
I would say though that I let his unromantic nature become an 'in' joke between us, but now, when life gets in the way, it would be nice to have a surprise romantic gesture, or not have to request a particular present on my birthday, or organise my own anniversary holiday etc etc. I think I should have been a bit more like OP and expected a bit more in the first place!

I would have been pretty pissed off to discover I was only worth £200 too but to be honest I was worth even less as neither of my husbands bothered to buy me any kind of engagement ring because all men are shmucks and utterly clueless with this kind of stuff. You have to practically drag them down to the shop - buy it for them and then arrange the wedding. Don't expect them to be able to cope with all that shit because they can't.
My advice to you is not to hang around waiting because you will be waiting forever, take charge of the situation, take the ring back, put it on and bully him mercilessly about the wedding. Use emotional blackmail if necessary - get the job done :-)
When I was young I was always waiting for men to take the lead, after years of experience I always take the lead. Good luck.

That's interesting, raisedby. You see my interpretation was that after he must have felt he really messed up with the ring - he knew she was disappointed - that he's lost confidence in the whole business.

I think OP could do a lot worse than take bikerlou's advice. Take control.

Actually maybe you're right prawn! It must be hard to pluck up the courage to propose. But I would have thought after the ring was sorted and the marriage question brought up, why say 3 years? Is that a normal engagement length nowadays?? Especially as he said he only wanted a small wedding. I agree that there's no co munication here at all!

I don't get all the posters saying that the OP 'wants romance'.

Her DP proposed [halfheartedly] with a ring that if he'd thought about it, he wouldn't have got. And he agreed on reflection about this!!

The problem isn't the method of proposal or the changing of the ring.

The problem is that he seems to have proposed with no actual intention to MARRY the woman. I have an ex who has 'been engaged' to SO many people... no intention of an actual wedding, I don't know what he thinks being engaged means but for me, if someone proposed to me I'd be planning the wedding straight away because for me personally, being engaged to be married means 'we are putting the plans in place to be married'. Nothing against long engagements for others but it isn't for me.

Yes, the Johnny Drop school of engagements 😀

I mean Depp! And look how that turned out...

Thanks once again to EVERYONE who has taken the time to read this and post their viewpoints.

It was never about the ring, the cost of the ring, any potential wedding whether lavish or otherwise, his proposal was never influenced by his parents as they hate me and persuaded him to leave me in the days leading up to the birth of my second child so I know the idea was entirely his own.......

But I have never prompted the topic of an engagement, wedding or marriage with him. In fact, if he hadn't proposed, the topic would never have come up and certainly not by me.

And I guess that's my point. It was all entirely instigated by him...... BUT why do so if the proposal is going to be so devoid of any thought, effort, meaning, intention.....????

I brought up the topic with him once and once only and that was to ask him...... what our plan was? Possible timescale, that kinda thing.........

I did not give the ring back in any kind of strop..... I returned it to him because I was extremely hurt that after being engaged for 2 months, he didn't even want to have our first ever chat about any impending nuptials and I thought well what on earth did we get engaged for?

I don't know why this is so difficult for some people on this thread to understand?

Neither was I expecting any lavish gestures..... I just expected and hoped for some sincerity, genuine intention and yes, dare I say it..... even a tiny bit of romance.

LTB.

I think the relationship sounds pretty doomed. I'd get the money back for the ring & carry on as you are for now. I predict you won't make the long haul, as you can't communicate with each other, so why become a divorce statistic?

I get it, OP.

You weren't expecting a full on 'down on one knee' flash mob proposal or a big ring. You weren't expecting anything at all.

But when the half baked proposal came, you expected it to be about a wedding, but it doesn't seem that way at all, in fact he bristled when you brought up the topic of a wedding two months after the ring was bought.

Plus the ring wasn't chosen thoughtfully or given appropriately (handed over as a birthday present plus he asked you to get the bubbly in??)

I think he gave it as a 'sign of his commitment' not as a 'sign he wants to marry you' which is a bit juvenile and I would be offended also. Especially with to children to consider. There just isn't any point to a long engagement, especially with children. But a proposal is still meaningful and it's totally possible to approach it seriously with some actual thought..

The whole thing sounds piss poor and you were right to give the ring back.

I think you have different ideas about engagement and marriage. And I think this needs to be discussed.

This must have affected your relationship, surely? Will you discuss it with him? Do you think he wants to discuss it? Does it seem like the elephant in the room?

"What would you say if..." is not a proposal. It's testing the waters and being scared of refusal. An engagement ring as a birthday present reminds me of another thread on AIBU where someone said her boyfriend proposed on her birthday and when she said 'no', he said "I thought you'd say no but I didn't know what to get you for your birthday and girls like to be engaged, right?".

As a PP said, I also think he wants to be engaged but not married. I understand why you gave the ring back. Men should propose only if they mean it.