Another fucking married man.

[ReallyFuckedOffAboutThis]

I'm not posting and running, although I am going out shortly so I won't be back for a while to respond.

I'm posting this here because I, obviously, can't tell anyone in real life but I'm really fucked off about it.

I've been on here for ages and I have been pretty vocal about how lack lustre/utterly non existent my love life is and how crap my experience with men has been. Aside from the few married men who've assumed I must be desperate and tried it on, no one is ever interested.

I am friends with a couple. I am close friends with them as a couple and with them independently of each other. This means that we spend a lot of time together with our children as families, but that I also go out for lunch/cinema/pub/exercising with each of the couple. It's fine. Nothing untoward has ever happened. All is good.

I know things aren't great between them at the moment and hasn't been for a couple of years or so. They've both told me this. They, obviously, have different perspectives, but the facts are the same. I think they each know the other talks to me but I never discuss the what the other person has said. But I do bear it in mind if I'm offering advice. Mostly neither of them want advice particularly, just to offload.

They are the perfect facebook family. FB is full of "my awesome family", "what would I do without my wonderful wife" and "my amazing hubby" type posts with the occasional #family thrown in. Lots of replies about how lucky they are and beautiful family... You know the sort.

Anyway... last week I went out somewhere with the husband. Nothing untoward, his wife knew, no problem, we often do it. And what did he do? Yep, he told me that he wasn't going to leave or anything, but that he loved me and would love to have the 'whole package' with me. I'm not quite sure if he was proposing an affair because I shut it down pretty quickly. I've seen them both since and it wasn't mentioned. I'm no different with either of them, but I will make sure I'm not on my own with him again.

There's no point telling her, I know (because I know her well) that she won't believe me, she will assume I have encouraged him somehow and she would drop me as a friend before she even challenged him about it.

I have very strong boundaries. Nothing will happen. But I'm fucked off that it's happened; it annoys me to read all the shit on FB about what a wonderfully happy family they are; and I'm fucked off that no one single is interested! Not really looking for advice, just having a rant.

Fucking ridiculous fucking arrogant fucking men.

OP re telling the woman, did you decide anything either way?

OP "What a shame thought that some men are so emotionally unintelligent that they are incapable of having a female friend without crossing the boundary and screwing it up at some point. "

I'm glad you said this because it has given me the impetus to say what this thread has highlighted for me - I had already noticed it, but this thread has really flagged it more...

there's a lot of men around who want to shag every woman they can, or think they can. I don't remember feeling like this 20 years ago. And frankly I was a lot better looking 20 years ago, but didn't feel quite so targeted. You could sit in a bar with your mates 20 years ago and not have to fend off so many approaches. I think there's a sense of entitlement around now that wasn't around in the past? Someone on another thread said something like "older women are like crap - easier to pick up". So that could also be why I now gird myself for approaches when out in a bar with a group.

I have a friend who is 26 - I'm 40 - and she says this mentality is all she's ever known, which makes sense given the time frames I'm thinking of.

Lorelei I'm still undecided. I know that I would want to know but, from things she has said, I don't think she would. I will give it some more thought.

I don't remember it being like this 20 years ago either. I don't know that I was better looking, I was certainly younger and had shit boundaries though! But I'm certainly not giving off 'easy to pick up' vibes. I've been 'targeted' in this way a few times now, and it's not been successful for any of the men who've tried it. I don't ever get approached when I'm out though. It's always colleagues and married men I already know.

It is shocking.

And the thing is, I'm not even looking for someone, so I'm not 'out there' and I'm not flirting. I would think long and hard before getting into another relationship though.

OP "But I'm certainly not giving off 'easy to pick up' vibes."

oh gosh, no, I wouldn't think you were, apologies if that wasn't clear. What i am saying is that there seem to be a lot of guys around now who just think women must want to be approached, think we all want to be picked up etc - xref the headphones stuff in the press last week which was quite representative of the whole issue, I thought.

Yes, I think it's men not women who think all single women need a man. Married women can see both sides, they know that there's good and bad to being single and most intelligent married women know that if you don' t put up with your own arsehole you won't put up with somebody else's. It's the men who don't see it like that!

I think a lot of it stems sadly from what people want. A wedding ring makes a bloke a challenge for some single women, especially those only after a fling, rather than the hassle that goes with a relationship. I think it's rife both ways and I hate it

It's not hard to find a fling though. LIke any woman ever struggled to find a quick fling.

Very hard to find a decent man who'll commit for longer than 3 weeks.

Sorry, Lorelei I didn't think you were saying that, just that if I were, I could at least understand it!

Yes, I saw that article too.

DamnGood Absolutely! And what a quaint way of expressing it

But yes, I had a colleague last year ask me why I was single.
Me: "because I haven't met anyone I want to be with"
Him: "yeah, but you're not a bad looking woman, haven't you met anyone?"
Me: "Well yes I have, but it's my choice to be single"
Him: "I just think if you kept an open mind"
Me: "It's my choice though..."
Him: "Well, if I were single I'd ask you out"

FacePalm.

Thing is though, Naze, I would love a relationship. I would love to meet someone who valued and loved me. But this is all I get offered!

oh I know, people think they're flattering you. I've had men on pof say ''but you're good looking''. there's a little bit more to it than that.

yeh, what I'd really like is to be able to relax happily in to a sexual relationship with somebody who valued me and liked me and recognised that I was funny and clever and kind. Instead, I get lied to by dickheads who tell me they want the same thing, they want a relationship, blah blah blah then literally 7 weeks in with me never having misrepresented myself at all, I get dumped. Pretty much the same thing has happened twice this year. Men who swore blind that they respected me. I actually spelled out loud and loud to the last guy that for me sex was about feeling safe, secure, respected etc. Now I think he was just nodding and thinking 'i'll go along with this for a 7 weeks and then tell her I don't feel it will work out after all''. So pissed off with men being so complicated.

I think you're right, DamnGood. I think some men think you'll hear, "I'm so attracted to you that I'm prepared to risk my marriage for you, that's how amazing you are".

When what I hear is, "I wouldn't want a proper relationship with you, but I'm happy to fuck you behind my wife's back".

I've done online dating in the past, but I wouldn't do it now.

I don't have much faith left tbh. It's not completely gone, and it would be amazing to meet someone who restored it. But that is not going to be someone else's bored, horny husband!

Yes it's not very flattering that they make it clear they prefer their wife to you, but be quite happy for some extras on the side. Great self esteem builder that one.

I imagine at some point he will stupidly say something about you coming on to him, and if you've not mentioned it, she will likely believe him.