Another fucking married man.

[ReallyFuckedOffAboutThis]

I'm not posting and running, although I am going out shortly so I won't be back for a while to respond.

I'm posting this here because I, obviously, can't tell anyone in real life but I'm really fucked off about it.

I've been on here for ages and I have been pretty vocal about how lack lustre/utterly non existent my love life is and how crap my experience with men has been. Aside from the few married men who've assumed I must be desperate and tried it on, no one is ever interested.

I am friends with a couple. I am close friends with them as a couple and with them independently of each other. This means that we spend a lot of time together with our children as families, but that I also go out for lunch/cinema/pub/exercising with each of the couple. It's fine. Nothing untoward has ever happened. All is good.

I know things aren't great between them at the moment and hasn't been for a couple of years or so. They've both told me this. They, obviously, have different perspectives, but the facts are the same. I think they each know the other talks to me but I never discuss the what the other person has said. But I do bear it in mind if I'm offering advice. Mostly neither of them want advice particularly, just to offload.

They are the perfect facebook family. FB is full of "my awesome family", "what would I do without my wonderful wife" and "my amazing hubby" type posts with the occasional #family thrown in. Lots of replies about how lucky they are and beautiful family... You know the sort.

Anyway... last week I went out somewhere with the husband. Nothing untoward, his wife knew, no problem, we often do it. And what did he do? Yep, he told me that he wasn't going to leave or anything, but that he loved me and would love to have the 'whole package' with me. I'm not quite sure if he was proposing an affair because I shut it down pretty quickly. I've seen them both since and it wasn't mentioned. I'm no different with either of them, but I will make sure I'm not on my own with him again.

There's no point telling her, I know (because I know her well) that she won't believe me, she will assume I have encouraged him somehow and she would drop me as a friend before she even challenged him about it.

I have very strong boundaries. Nothing will happen. But I'm fucked off that it's happened; it annoys me to read all the shit on FB about what a wonderfully happy family they are; and I'm fucked off that no one single is interested! Not really looking for advice, just having a rant.

Fucking ridiculous fucking arrogant fucking men.

Zombies, that's not always the problem. I have been propositioned by married men, at a kids party, at my door, on the playground, at a pub while ordering food, out for drinks, at work, You get the idea .

Zombie, you talk as if you think women can't have male friends. I've known mine for nearly 30 years, I don't know their wives much at all.

Thank you so much for all the responses.

I'm a bit sad that the general response seems to be that it will all go horribly wrong regardless and that I should prepare for a bit of a character assassination. And that I should distance myself from them both. I really want to say that I don't think either of them are like that, as such, but with so many people saying the same thing, I'd be an idiot to ignore it. I will withdraw a little and see what happens

And it's really fucking depressing that it's so common. The reason this has annoyed me so much, and that 'another' is in the title, is that it isn't an isolated incident for me either. A single male friend has told me that a lot of men interpret 'friendliness' as 'interest'. But, even if that were the case, why are they not thinking, "I'm married, I'd best reinforce this boundary" rather than, "boundary? What boundary?" I've batted off so much interest from married men since I separated from my husband. I just didn't think this friend would ever be one of them.

I think the "whole package" comment was a bit of a 'conditional' scenario as in he could see himself having the whole package with me, or whatever. Not that he was actually proposing it would happen. I don't think it really matters though tbh.

And yes, already decided that I won't be spending time with him alone again.

There are a few comments I do want to address directly though. Because I can see how the insidious comments might well start in real life on the basis of them!!

Justaboy If a man cannot manage having a female friend he sees alone without propositioning her for an affair, I see that as being a fault that lies entirely with him and not one that she has any responsibility for. Especially when she has no interest in him romantically or sexually and has never demonstrated any.

Weallhavewings nope, don't relish in any drama . All I meant was that if either of them has asked what I think or made a statement that I know is incorrect, I've just suggested that there might be alternative ways of looking at it and different approaches that might be more successful if they are feeling frustrated by the same outcomes. Just in the context of a conversation or in response to being asked for my opinion. Besides, they've advised me plenty on various things. It's what friends do, surely. But I will stop it now.

Muddlewitch it's dented my view of men in general too

lakefaith What makes you think that I need male attention? He was a friend, you're familiar with the concept right? He wasn't someone I spent time with for a bit of a flirt and an ego boost FFS. He was a friend like any other. And that can't be replicated by meeting men online. What an utterly moronic and reductionist response.

shebashimmyshake yes, I get what you were saying to Just too. The thing is that in order for a woman to socialise with a married man, Just, a married man must be socialising with a woman. Why not ask if many married men do it if they can't manage to not proposition them for affairs, rather than why the women pursue friendships with people.

zombie I don't feel the need to socialise with my friends' husbands. I socialise with my friends. It's just that this particular friend is married to another of my friends. Some of my female friends are married to men/women I never see, and the same goes for my male friends. I have a couple of male friends and I have never met their wives. I don't fancy them, they don't fancy me. There is nothing dodgy going on. No flirting. Nothing. I don't believe it was waiting to happen.

Thanks.

The problem is that social standards and morals, developed as society has changed and evolved, go against our built-in instincts. For men, this is to f* as many females as possible to spread your genes as widely as possible.

Some people are more principled and strong-willed than others about it, but the underlying instinct is always there. Breed and survive - the fundamental drivers of life.

I feel for you OP
If you told me this story ten years ago, I'd be shocked. Now it seems commonplace

I don't think I'd make a new male friend now. That's sad I know, but I can't face another drunken "actually I luffs you and our friendship was fake" call, or a grope out of the blue. How sad is that?

I think the term "friend zoned" describes something that was there all along but I didn't believe it existed.

Musings I think it's just about the novelty of newness. It's no different to getting excited about a new TV series, or getting a new car, or trying out a new dish or anything else where you do anything for no reason other than you "fancy a change".

Lorelei It makes me wary of it now too. I'm not sure how well I'd trust anyone now either. It's happened too many times.

And there are too many threads on here by women who are the wife in the situation.

Oh, the single male friend I mentioned upthread also said that it might be that I'm seen as unattainable (precisely because I'm not a rampant flirt) and that presents a challenge. I don't know. It's just happened too many times now.

Really - well thank god you did reject him! My ExH did have inappropriate relationships, so called 'emotional affairs' with a couple of women, one of which I knew, and it hurt SO badly. We have a child who has suffered because of it. So at least you are one of the good women out there.

I too have had my fair share of married men 'suggest' stuff in the past when I was single.

However, there is one thing, you say that you have 'really good boundaries' - yet I do think that discussion problems with a relationship or marriage with someone of the opposite sex ALWAYS is a bad idea. I would not be happy if my current BF did this. So the warning signs were there. It would be OK to discuss this with the woman, unless you fancied her.

I think that this is because when a relationship becomes vulnerable, through problems, then sharing these problems is really VERY intimate. Especially for a man, it sets him up to view you in a much closer way than is safe, as the marriage pulls away.

You could keep up a relationship with the woman if you liked, but I think it is tainted now. You'll know something that she doesn't, which isn't nice all around, and you can't in anyway be a friend to this man now.

Roast I can see what you're saying. I've never engaged in lengthy chats with either of them about it, to be honest. I don't want to say too much in case it is identifying (I don't know if she is on here) but it was more along the lines of "Oh did you have a good time when you went to X?" and whichever one I asked saying "no, it didn't happen after all because... (a misunderstanding/argument happened)" and then a bit of a 5 minute offload after which I sometimes responded with advice/alternative viewpoint if prompted or just said "oh dear, what a shame" and the conversation moved on. There was certainly no "Oh he's/she's such a .... How ridiculous... How unfair..." from me because I have no interest in getting involved in other people's relationships. But we all have a 5 minute "Grr" now and again when we just want to get it off our chest, don't we? It wasn't something that happened very often. It wasn't a main feature of our friendship.

I suppose I didn't really consider it, but I can really see what you mean about the man viewing you in a much closer way when the relationship becomes vulnerable.

I'll definitely bear it in mind in future.

I think you should start being busy. He clearly has no respect for you or his wife saying that. You have every right to be angry and I think you should tell her. Why would she think you've encouraged him? If you are a good friend.

IreallyKNOW Again, I don't want to say too much on here, it's not my relationship. But she turns a blind eye to a lot of things he does that I wouldn't tolerate because she is so fearful of him leaving her. She would do anything to avoid that.

I am fairly confident from other things she has said that that is how it would go.

I think I will have to start being busy, yes.

ReallyFuckedOffAboutThis Lorelei76 shebashimmyshake et al !

OK for the benefit of any doubt with regards to the first part of the OP's posting.

Yes it is wrong for you to have been sexually propositioned by someone who you thought was a friend. Clearly he was not quite what you perceived him to be, had not behaved as you expected. Across a male sample spectrum there will be men who will take any chance they can as to a sexual encounter, with most any woman they see as being "available" through to ones who are absolutely committed to the exclusion of anyone else outside their relationship.

It does seem that some here can and do have friendships with other non same sex married as Lorelei76 alluded to IIRC that is;!

I have only seen this once with a woman who was a "fishing widow" and she used to sometimes go out for lunch on a Sunday with someone i knew, as best i know nothing sexually happened with them but i wasn't there so how do i know for certain?

In all the married and couple's i know of, not seen this man out with the other woman and vice versa.

I do and its just my opinion think that it will be troublesome for an opposite sex friendship where there is a discord with one of the married or in a established relationship as what happened here. That is in my opinion.

Maybe I should get out more;! But i can only relate to my personal experiences others of course will differ.

As regarding male & female friends let alone marrieds or in formed relationships this can it seem to be a difficult area some findings here to examine that.

www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-and-women-cant-be-just-friends/

bleske-rechek.com/April%20Website%20Files/Bleske-Rechek%20et%20al.%202012%20Benefit%20or%20Burden.pdf

Tbh I couldn't sit listening separately to both of them offloading their marital problems onto me. I would feel really uncomfortable with it. What's happened has really made your position untenable. Presumably she will continue to discuss her marriage issues with you, which surely would make it awkward you trying to reassure her, when you know what an Arse he is now? It seems to me you need to gently back away from this friendship; he's clearly no real friend if he propositioned you in this way.

No, you're right Live.

Justaboy, I really apologise if what I'm about to say is wrong, I guess I'm checking it because I find it so bizarre.

Do you essentially think men and women can't be friends? That's always struck me as the kind of comment that's made by people who don't understand friendship.

As for the marriage problems, one of the guys I talked about from school did have them, if he can't confide in me after all these years of friendship, who is he meant to tell? Is he not meant to confide in me because I'm female? What a sorry state of affairs that would be.

I went on one date with a guy who said he thought men and women couldn't be friends, I didn't see him again because that's so weird. I feel like It reeks of a mentality of men are from Mars etc.

All reminds me of that Wendy Cope poem about single women over a certain age being reduced to accepting bids from husbands inclined to be naughty and divorcees obsessed with their (leaves out last word to avoid copyright infringement )

Oh don't say that Down.

This has happened to me on too many occasions. it inevitably means I lose the female friend. It has recently happened with a friend's (married) dad - I so hope it isn't going to go the same way bcs I'd be GUTTED to lose this friend

It could be a way of isolating the wife by picking off her friends one by one? Whatever, she's in a crap marriage. I tend to steer clear of couples in crap marriages - you get splashed by the shit somewhere along the line.

She'd do anything to keep him? ugh. Instead of tip-toeing around worrying about what might happen now, maybe you could wave goodbye to the friend good and proper by telling her what happened. It may help her further down the line even if she doesn't want to hear it now.

And wtf is the deal that the woman always gets the blame??

Springy, the isolating thing is so interesting as it has occurred to me this could be a factor in it all.

What's the poem please?
I don't know about picking off friends, I think these creeps do it anyway. Some of them just want to shag everything that moves. And one thing I really notice as a single woman is that men are virtually equipped with radar for single women. NAMALT of course.

I don't tend to make friends as a couples, sounds like it's just as well! I run a mile from the kind of friend who often wants to bring their partner.

I think justaboy is saying that being friendly with a man who is offloading to you about his marriage is where the trouble lies.

OP you should be able to have friendships with either sex but in my experience divorced/separated woman are seen as fair game, regardless of friendship ties. I've seen 3 marriages go down this route so sometimes the woman is looking for something else.

I knew a single lady through dd1 who seemed very comfortable and happy being single but thought all dw thought she was after their dh. It made her very uncomfortable asking dh for any help which l always thought was a shame.

I would no longer want to be this sleaze's friend, at all. I would tell his wife exactly what was said, on the assumption that cutting him off would likely mean losing her anyway. He might lie and convince her, and you'd then lose her too, but that will probably happen anyway and she, as your friend, should have the information.

And yes, it's inappropriate to listen to a male friend's marriage woes.

Dozer, "And yes, it's inappropriate to listen to a male friend's marriage woes."

Why? And what do you think would happen to the friendship we've had since school if I had said "sorry, I don't want to listen"?

Lotelei can't remember the name of the poem but it's only four lines and I've pretty much quoted it. To make me feel better it's from her marvellous book 'Serious Concerns ' (available in all good book shops)!
Sorry Really it is a depressing thought but it's all echoing what's just happened to my friend ('Deb') Her best friend suddenly distanced herself when Deb was at her lowest ebb and she was very hurt. It's just come out that Deb's husband made a pass at this friend and because Deb was already down the friend didn't know what to do. Deb and I are convinced this was a no lose situation for Mr Slimeball as he either got a shag or distanced Deb from her best support network. It's taken 4 years for all this to come out . Luckily in this case Deb isn't quite as crushed as she could have been because she wanted out of her marriage. It's so depressing that it's sooooo common. Urgh!