Would you class this as abusive?

[WhatDoYouThinkOfThis]

A wife and mother whose husband is of another culture/language. Both partners are bilingual i.e. speak, read and write the other's language to a very high level. The language of the couple is the wife's language.

Wife/mother does everything she can to prevent the couple's DC from learning the H's language, visiting his country and having contact with his family.

How have you been asked to help

You have obviously already made your mind up so not sure what you want from this thread to be honest!

This totally.

So the wife hasnt actually stated any reason for doing this.

It would be helpful op if you can give her a ring now and ask her directly and calmly. People on here might be more able to advise with proper information.

Main stream languages in europe, Spanish, English, German and French. Mum is British I assume which leaves, Germany, France or Spain. These are my assumptions based on the little OP has said.

As for the questions on this being abuse, if it was the other way around it would be seen as such in a sense but it is tricky to answer this without enough details.

I'll say again what I said upthread.

Either everything you say is true - she hates her husband in a racially/culturally motivated way, she vilifies him and his language, she has a personality disorder and she is nasty to and about him on a regular basis (in which case why do you need to ask if it's abusive?)

OR

You dislike her and are being economical with the truth to paint her as an abuser when actually she's just not actively teaching their teenage children her husband's language and culture.

I think it's the latter. If it's the former - why even ask?

I think it would still be important to lead the language of the country even if you were schooled in a different language. Surely teenagers would have multiple interactions a day with people who speak the language of the country: shopkeepers, bus drivers, doctors etc etc. To remove their chance of communicating with people, isolating them and reducing their independence in favour of a third language would seem very unfair. Especially when the majority of their family seem to be multilingual, can their father's family only speak one language?

Even if they might move country later, it is important for them to be able to communicate now.

WellErrr - that seems to sum things up perfectly!

Since the H and extended family on both sides are fluent in the W's language then it's not as if the DC are missing out on a relationship with their father or grandparents due to a language barrier

It doesn't have to be a choice between the language of the country and their father's language. The mother seems to be using the language of the country to push the father's language out. The DC learn another language (fourth language) too.

Whirlwinds - there are more mainstream languages than that. Italian, Dutch, Potuguese...

Portuguese

The other way round (Whirlwind s remark) would only apply if the H was the principle care giver in the mother's usual role: children learn their 'Mother' tongue first and most likely he language of the country they are living in next.

They could learn their father's tongue third, but as normally no one could stop him speaking that to his children, it is difficult to know what is happening behind the scenes here. You have not told us enough detail: his wife could be a nasty, abusive woman, but usually even then she would have some motive in her own mind which we are not getting to hear about.

The H's nationality (Germany, Spanish, Dutch or whatever) is hardly the key issue here!

OP - if everything you say is true then it is certainly odd to not want your DC to learn an extra language when they have the opportunity to but aren't you more concerned about the fact the W hates her H?

Dozer - yes, I do have concerns about it being an abusive relationship and I think that the W is abusing / has abused other people in other relationships, but that is a very hard thing to pin down.

Yeah op if you won't offer more detail, I think this thread has run its course

Shagged - I am much more concerned about general abuse in this person's relationships but the language anecdote is a relatively easy one to dissect.

Right, well in that case I don't think that the language thing is necessarily abusive on its own no

IF her H wasn't fluent in her language then my answer would be different but since he is then discouraging her DC from learning their father's native language isn't on its own damaging her DC's relationship with their dad

There are a number of plausible reasons which could explain her motives, some of them abusive, some of them perfectly reasonable

OP, I accept that sabotaging the language of one parent could be abuse. But then you say really odd things that make me doubt your judgment completely.

Like encouraging the dc to learn the language of the country they live is part of the plan to stop them learning the father's language. They are teenagers!!! Of course they want to know the language of the country they live in so they can have normal levels of independence and understand what is going on around them.

And why on earth would the new language "crowd out" their father's language. If the father wanted them to be bilingual, then surely both the bilingualism and the interest in maintaining it should have been established a long time before they hit their teens? I have bilingual teens myself, and it wouldn't occur to me to try to dictate their language choice now: they are old enough to decide for themselves what their identity is, and old enough to do the work on keeping up any language they want through social media etc. If I haven't been able to make them feel it is worthwhile to keep it up off their own bat, then I've missed my chance.

Certainly he won't be able to make them feel it is worthwhile by suggesting that speaking his language is in conflict with something they feel is worthwhile.

Op you have focused your concern on the language issue, but if the w is abusive then that is the problem. There could be innocent explanations for a failure to teach a language to your children. Parental choice, lack of involvement/ priority for the language being spoken by the father, lack of interest from the children depending on their age.

If you are concerned about abuse then you report your concerns to a proper authority.if the husband is concerned then he makes an effort to change the situation. If there are are no other concerns, the children are generally well cared for and settled then it is not your decision to make. It may not be how you would raise these children but the parents are making their life choices it is not up to you.

If the husband wants to make changes you can be supportive if he comes to you.

I'm Irish. My father's first language was Irish; that's what my grandparents spoke at home and my Dad and his siblings only spoke Irish until they went to school. My mother was raised speaking English like the majority of Irish people. My mother disliked Irish as she had attended an Irish-speaking school and had bad memories of the place and she discouraged my father from speaking it in the house. Irish is part of the school curriculum here so myself and my siblings do speak it but unfortunately as it's never taught well, we are far from fluent and I for one, wish that my mother had gotten over herself and allowed my Dad to speak Irish to us at home. It would have made a huge difference both culturally and academically and I feel we would also have benefitted linguistically as so many bilingual children do. My cousin's little girl is spoken to in English by her Mum, Portuguese by her Dad and in Irish by her granny who looks after her a lot and I think it's wonderful.
I think it does seem odd to prevent a child from knowing the language of one of its parents but to be honest, there's probably not much you can do as it's not your child. The father would be within his rights to put his foot down under normal circumstances but it's not your place to butt in.

OK, so if you have concerns that your relative is abusive towards her H, and/or indeed yourself or other relatives.

You can deal with your own situation, for example by setting boundaries, limiting or even cutting contact with her. You can't really help the H, other than perhaps (if you know him well) to privately tell him you care/would like to be there if there's ever anything you can do for him and the DC.