House... Baby.. No ring.

[littlerabbitface]

Have nc'd for this.

I suppose this is like a WWYD.

Basically me and oh live together, own the house together, have a baby, own a car jointly, finances are pooled. You get the idea. We act like a married couple.

However we are not a married couple.

Not even engaged.

At first it never bothered me really, but now we have a baby and him and oh have the same surname and I have a different one, I'll admit it does really get to me that we aren't married. I feel like a bit of an idiot.

Before anyone says well why did you buy a house and have a baby with him, well because I thought we would get married and I wasn't bothered if that came before or after a baby!

Now I'm starting to doubt it'll happen. We've been together four years. Neither of us have been married before. He's in his early thirties, I'm in mid twenties.

I know there is no real rush, and realistically we couldn't afford a wedding for maybe a year or two. (Though I'd be happy with a registry office and a nice meal! He wouldn't!)

When I've spoken to him about it he mainly just says we will do it in time, we will get there eventually, not yet, or in a few years, or what's the rush it won't change anything (technically it won't I suppose, obviously legally but in terms of our relationship nothing would change as we're pretty much living as a married couple)

He thinks I want to rush into it and doesn't see why I'm so bothered about doing it because it won't change anything. I say that if it won't change anything then why not just do it instead of putting it off for years.

I guess I'm just a bit fed up and this is just a bit of a whinge. I don't want to leave over this obviously as we have a good relationship, but I want to be married to him and I don't want to have to nag about it.

WWYD in this situation. Can you change the mindset of someone who is not very bothered? He is quite laid back anyway so it comes as no surprise that he is in no rush to do this.

Should I bring it up? Should I forget about it? Should I resign myself to the fact it may never happen?

I am hoping he is secretly thinking about it but I doubt that very much.

I need advice!

I think counselling will definitely help you work out if you can get over not being married and if you can't you will have to leave. Honestly it won't be good for you, him or you baby. You can't have a successful long term relationship with something like that hanging over you. If you genuinely can't get over it you HAVE to leave, no point dragging it out

But I wouldnt be any happier if i left :(

I think counselling Is a good idea

Yy to counselling. It might get him to articulate why he doesn't want to get married and maybe force him to think about the very real affects this choice will have on his relationship both in legal and emotional terms. For you it will help clarify what you can and cannot accept. Armed with this knowledge you can make choices for your own future based on more than his current vague answers.

If you did decide to leave then you might not be happier in the short term but you would be leaving for the chance of being happier further down the line.
If you stay and genuinely cannot reconcile yourself to this then the relationship will suffer a slow longering death anyway.
I know it is easy for me to say leave him, when it's not me who would be affected but I truly think that there are some situations that are not compromiseable (if that's a word) and you owe it to yourself to give yourself a chance to find long term happiness with someone who wants what you want.

In the nicest possible way you will probably be unhappy in the short term, but if you found someone who wanted to marry you, no begging or upset required you will be happy again. It might take time, but you are not signing up for a lifetime of feeling undervalued (which you are if you stay and can't make your peace with not getting married)

I know what you want is him to want to get married. But he doesn't, you can change that. All you can do is decide what you can or can't live with.

People keep insisting the boyfriend give "a reason" for not wanting to be married. Why does he need a reason?

I have never wanted to be married. I have philosophical objections to the state of marriage and its place in our modern society, and I get claustrophobic at the notion of being legally entangled, even with someone I care about. I have ended three serious relationships in my adulthood because the man wanted (and went on to have) a more traditional set-up. Sad but better to split than to compromise my gut feelings. Now I restrict my relationships to men who have the same outlook.

Maybe the boyfriend just plain doesn't want to be married. He doesn't really need to justify it or to articulate a reason. It's not as though he's even broken an engagement - some vague promise in the past of "yeah someday we'll get hitched" does not an engagement make.

That said he doesn't sound like much of a catch, bouncing from woman to woman and fathering kids with each, but still being Mr. Xbox, Mr. iPad etc. instead of saving for the kids' security. If you do split I bet he'd have a new woman (and one who can support herself without input from him) and another offspring within 18 months at the outside.

Can't change rather

Wow lilac that's harsh.

He's had two serious relationships in his entire adult life and I am one of them.

Not sure what you're getting at with the Xbox and iPad.

I have an iPad but I'm not a child, it doesn't stop me being a good parent or partner.

As I've said, our child has an isa which we both pay into.

I think I would be stupid to leave. He is a good partner and a very good dad.

I do feel very hurt by this, don't get me wrong. I'm not sure whether I'll get over it, but I think I have a better chance at happiness with my family together, rather than leaving and perhaps meeting someone else. Perhaps getting married.

I don't want to split up with him.

People keep insisting the boyfriend give "a reason" for not wanting to be married. Why does he need a reason?

I think LRF is looking for a reason he changed his mind about marriage after everything else had unfolded the way they had discussed it between them.

It does rather leave her in the lurch legally and now she has to find out her rights and those of her child and set up solicitors' meetings and paperwork in lieu.

I think she deserves a reason for all that, at least. There must be one.

"People keep insisting the boyfriend give "a reason" for not wanting to be married. Why does he need a reason?"

A. Because he led the OP to believe he would marry her, and whether he was lying or has changed his mind, he owes her an explanation.

B. Because the OP does want to get married and for her to give up what she wants, it would be reasonable for him to explain his reasons to help her understand and come to terms with it.

I would find it a lot easier to get over it if there was a reason, if I could understand why he feels so strongly about it.

I have come to my own conclusions about what his reasons are, though I think they are more fears than reasons.

Ok, if you don't want to split you need to genuinely make your peace with never getting married. I know a few long term couples who never married. They are very happy! The mum has a different name to the (now adult) children. There are no issues with this. There is nothing wrong with not getting married (if you have wills etc), you just need to find a way to not link your value as a partner to getting married. Maybe get a symbol like go out and buy a locket with all three of you in it? Or something similar?

Because there is no happy ever after with you feeling undervalued your whole life because you are not his wife.

Butterworth. You're right.

I too know happy unmarried couples. Maybe it won't be as bad in a few years I am pretty hysterical at the moment because it was a shock. I didn't see it coming.

At this moment I am really rally unhappy, and I know obviously something needs to change.

I think what's pissing me off most is that as much as he is saying he doesn't want to do it, he's still saying well I'm more likely to consider it if you stop going on about it.

It's like there's that little bit of hope left, but it's a little bit of hope I'll never get my hands on iyswim.

I feel a bit like he's leading me on and saying that so I don't leave. But what if he's saying that because it's true, what if he will change his mind.

It's just a horrible situation and I really wish I wasn't in it.

To be honest he has made me feel totally and utterly worthless. Whether it's his 'belief' or not, I'm taking it personally. To me it is personal, it's a big fucking slap in the face.

It's like saying well I love you, but not enough to do what will make you happy and essentially make no difference to me.

I'm not sure whether has has been dishonest, or genuinely changed his mind and then tried to get out of it

I think the least he could do is tell you which it is.

In my opinion, it's the former. He implied you'd get married. Now he won't. No reason given. If he had a fundamental, philosophical aversion to marriage he could/should have told you right from the off. Before children, houses, cars. He watched you get yourself into all that whilst leading you on about marriage and now has now turned around and denied you marriage.

It's all very well him changing his mind, but I think you deserve to know WHY a partner who professes to love you would promise you something important to you, watch you get enmeshed emotionally/physically/legally/financially, then take that thing away from you, see you so distraught and simply just fold his arms, stare at you and pretty much say "nope, not gonna do it now, no discussion"

I am just sat crying in my own about it now

I am so sorry you're unhappy LRF. Why can't he be sorry enough to at least discuss this properly like an adult with you?

I don't know what to do I just feel completely helpless

It might feel like it now, but you are not helpless. You might have to make some tough decisions though.

I'm not sure I can ever get over it. I don't think I can

You've seen a side of your partner you weren't aware existed. It's bloody painful. Give yourself some time. Mull over the answers you''ve had here. Have a really good think about things from every angle.

I don't want to leave either, I may never meet anyone else

Being afraid you'll never meet anyone else is no reason to stay. Don't let this man's rejection of marriage give you low self-esteem. This is about him, not your worth!

Even if I did I don't want to marry anyone else. I want to marry him

Even that feeling may lessen one day if you cannot come to terms with the fact your partner has behaved this way. Your respect for him may be eroded, the bitterness may eat away at your soul. The day may come when you wouldn't marry him if he begged you and then you will know it's time to move on.

I agree with the others that you should have counselling at least. You need to find a way to make peace with this impasse you have reached with your partner. Making peace with it could mean staying OR leaving. Whatever you think is right for you and your future happiness.

"I think what's pissing me off most is that as much as he is saying he doesn't want to do it, he's still saying well I'm more likely to consider it if you stop going on about it."

I can understand why that's pissing you off. It's all a power game to him, isn't it?! And he has all the power. He may or may not deign to marry you, but you're not even allowed to talk about it. Well that's bullshit. He needs to be honest about whether he wants to get married in the future or not. He also needs to be honest about whether he's always felt that way or his feelings have changed.

You can move past this (even if you stay unmarried) but not if he refuses to talk about it and keeps you dangling without being honest one way or the other.

Yep. Would be a lot easier without all this maybe maybe not shit. I like a definitive answer and he seemingly does not.

I would find it a lot easier to get over it if there was a reason, if I could understand why he feels so strongly about it.

Exactly.

There's nothing wrong with someone feeling strongly they don't want to be married. But they have to be able to explain why, and not dangle a carrot in front of their partner's face. Which is definitely not what he is doing now.

I'm not surprised you are so upset, nor that it is making you think seriously about everything. Because yes, it does read as if it is some sort of power play at the moment.

If he's been honest an upfront from the start it would be a non issue.

Because I'd either a) know where i stood, been legally sorted from the offset, come to terms with not being married, potentially made a different decision regarding the babies name. Potentially made lots of different decisions!

Or b) wouldn't have continued the relationship.

Toad is spot on!

I think the name thing is a rather significant factor in not being married when you have DCs for many people, though not for everyone.

DHs brother had DCs before marriage. His GF at the time insisted they double barrelled for the DCs.

None of us family realised this and addressed DCs birthday card envelope with BILS/DHs surname.

Then BILs GF calmly and in a friendly tone informed all the extended family (while we were at their house for said birthday gathering) that DC was using both their names for the time being and could they please use that when writing his name/addressing things in the future.

I tell you it was pindrop silence for a moment after she said it. BIL looked like a bit awkward, like he wanted the ground to open up.

Now they're married, she has no issue with the using of BILs surname for the DCs, but she clearly wanted to make her point at the time.

No marriage = DC uses my name too.

He won't give you a definitive answer as it would be "no" and he thinks you might leave. At the moment he is happy with the way things are. Even though you are crying on your own. He's ok. That's all that matters in his world.

You on the other hand, are far from happy. Understandably so. You were led to expect marriage was on the cards, and made life chices based on this expectation. Life choices, which you admit, very probably would have been different had you known that your partner had no intention of marrying you.

IMO the issue is no longer one of marriage. It is about your partner being in control, and putting himself before you, even when you are upset. You are not an equal partnership. He is the boss. You need to shut up and stop going on, like a good girl. In return he might think about marrying you.

I agree with a pp who said that one day you might realise that you wouldn't marry him even if he begged.

Be kind to yourself op . Your partner isn't the man you thought he was

Honestly I know it would probably help if he gave you a definite answer yes/no to marriage. But in all probability there is probably not a definitete answer. It's sounds like a complicated emotional reason.

You cannot live in limbo waiting for him to work out his complicated emotional reasoning. Decide if you can live with never getting married and make your decision based on that.

It sounds as if you don't want to break up so just make your peace with not getting married and be happy with what you have got

Go buy some kind of symbolic jewellery and remember that his 'complicated emotional reasoning around marriage' has absolutely nothing to do with you or your inherent worth or value as his partner.

Ringonrighthand

That was a painful read. So sorry