House... Baby.. No ring.

[littlerabbitface]

Have nc'd for this.

I suppose this is like a WWYD.

Basically me and oh live together, own the house together, have a baby, own a car jointly, finances are pooled. You get the idea. We act like a married couple.

However we are not a married couple.

Not even engaged.

At first it never bothered me really, but now we have a baby and him and oh have the same surname and I have a different one, I'll admit it does really get to me that we aren't married. I feel like a bit of an idiot.

Before anyone says well why did you buy a house and have a baby with him, well because I thought we would get married and I wasn't bothered if that came before or after a baby!

Now I'm starting to doubt it'll happen. We've been together four years. Neither of us have been married before. He's in his early thirties, I'm in mid twenties.

I know there is no real rush, and realistically we couldn't afford a wedding for maybe a year or two. (Though I'd be happy with a registry office and a nice meal! He wouldn't!)

When I've spoken to him about it he mainly just says we will do it in time, we will get there eventually, not yet, or in a few years, or what's the rush it won't change anything (technically it won't I suppose, obviously legally but in terms of our relationship nothing would change as we're pretty much living as a married couple)

He thinks I want to rush into it and doesn't see why I'm so bothered about doing it because it won't change anything. I say that if it won't change anything then why not just do it instead of putting it off for years.

I guess I'm just a bit fed up and this is just a bit of a whinge. I don't want to leave over this obviously as we have a good relationship, but I want to be married to him and I don't want to have to nag about it.

WWYD in this situation. Can you change the mindset of someone who is not very bothered? He is quite laid back anyway so it comes as no surprise that he is in no rush to do this.

Should I bring it up? Should I forget about it? Should I resign myself to the fact it may never happen?

I am hoping he is secretly thinking about it but I doubt that very much.

I need advice!

All we need now is Mrs Bennett and her lace hanky.

It does feel at bit 1950s, more so than in real life. I don't even know if half the people we know are married or not! Because it's not a big deal- it's not like you have to be ashamed if you are not married -or your relationship is somehow less serious or something? I know a few married players.
Commitment can take many forms. Still feel sorry for your situation op -but some of these comments are a bit ott!

The reason for the stigma of out-of-wedlock births is not because "the Village" is prudish about sex. It's because the Village knows that when people bear kids in a willy-nilly fashion outside of a committed relationship, the Villagers are more likely to be the ones bearing the costs - not just financial - of children raised in less stable environments. Pressure to only procreate within a long-term relationship is one way the Village protects itself, or used to. And it only takes an hour perusal of a site like this to see the negatives of bearing children by people who aren't prepared to rear them.

It's a practical matter more than a moral one, for many of us. I couldn't care less how much sex people are having, or with whom or what, but I am very concerned about thoughtless reproduction and the long-term emotional, psychological, educational, financial and social effects on the children and hence on the rest of us.

I agree that commitment can take many forms but we also see a lot of "I guess I was naive and thought he... blah blah blah" posts from women who have been left alone by partners they thought were on board.

And she doesn't seem to understand this

YES I DO.

It's a practical matter more than a moral one, for many of us. I couldn't care less how much sex people are having, or with whom or what, but I am very concerned about thoughtless reproduction and the long-term emotional, psychological, educational, financial and social effects on the children and hence on the rest of us.

Excuse me!!!!!

The decision to have my child was not thoughtless.

Why the fuck is he going to suffer emotionally, psychologically, educationally, financially and socially?!

I hope you're not implying that my child is somehow young to have a worse upbringing and I am going to rely on 'the rest of you' to support me or him because I am not married?

How bloody rude.

I might want to be married but my child has two fucking good parents whether we're married or not.

And it only takes an hour perusal of a site like this to see the negatives of bearing children by people who aren't prepared to rear them.

Oh and not once have I said dp isn't committed to his children. He is more than prepared to raise them thank you very much.

He might be a shit when it comes to discussing marriage with me but he is a bloody good dad.

" I am very concerned about thoughtless reproduction and the long-term emotional, psychological, educational, financial and social effects on the children and hence on the rest of us"
Fuck off!

Just to clarify I have no issues with 'older brides' I just don't want to have a big wedding after waiting so long. Just personal opinion

Also I'm not ashamed of being unmarried. I find it embarrassing but I wouldn't say I'm ashamed. I don't give a shit what others think, I give a shit what I think. And I'm bothered!

Well said Bertrand

My dad got married at 80 - to an older woman.

When you reach this age it really doesn't matter any more in my opinion. Most people will assume it's a second or third marriage at 80.

My view being that you've already had the first wedding where you were young to party the night away.

Despite being in 2016, many people still hold traditional values in regards to marriage. You'll never change that and it doesn't mean they are not down with the times, it can simply mean those are the values and expectations of their upbringing.

It's just a case of different values and not better or worse than those who see no value in marriage and are happy to cohabit forever.

I'm not sure if you or your DP want more DCs, but in your shoes I wouldn't have another without being married.

Before I got married and was in relationships, if the person's timeline for marriage didn't match mine, I just called it quits.

Or if they spoke like marriage was a mug's game during the relationship, I just extricated myself by saying I didn't see a future for us.

I think that when you have kids in a relationship without being married, the man doesn't think marriage is a dealbreaker for you, as this is the sticking point with many couples and the stage at which they break up, stop talking about kids or move towards getting married.

Apologies for not having read the whole thread.

As long as he has made a will, nominated you legally as his next of kin (and taken legal advice around this), ensured that all assets are in joint names and you are both confident that you are individually financially secure should you separate, or if anything should happen to either of you, the fact that he doesn't want to get married shouldn't be too much of a problem in practical terms.

Have you both got life insurance policies in place to protect each other and your DC?

The above all takes a bit more time and effort than a simple marriage ceremony, but it is a personal choice.

That said, I would have been hurt if DH had not wanted to marry me.

A friend of mine wants out of her marriage. She wishes she had never ever married as it is so bloody hard to get out of.

The English courts have the power to transfer property and redistribute assets so the state has a hand in your affairs. She hates that.

Something to consider.

Well, with all due respect, that is probably what his first child's mother thought, too, right?

Nothing personal but we see these scenarios time after time and the kids are the ones who end up getting shuttled around like pieces of luggage and who develop enduring problems resulting from the instability.

*Well, with all due respect, that is probably what his first child's mother thought, too, right?

Nothing personal but we see these scenarios time after time and the kids are the ones who end up getting shuttled around like pieces of luggage and who develop enduring problems resulting from the instability.*

Are you suggesting he's not committed to his child because he ended the relationship with his mother?

'Nothing personal' see,s pretty fucking personal to me!

Neither of his children are treated like luggage, and what is unstable?!

Can I just join Bertrand and her ilk in saying that if my partner tried pulling half these stunts to force me into marriage I would be extremely pissed off. I might end up caving in and getting married, in all honesty, but I would resent him hugely for manipulating me into it.

It is possible he is offended by the fact I have refused his various suggestions we commit a spot of matrimony, but he seems quite content with the deal (ie continuing to enjoy the glory of domestic life with me), frankly.

Oh and my first lovely daughter was really quite unplanned. She hasn't run amok as the result of 'thoughtless reproduction' to date...

"Nothing personal but we see these scenarios time after time and the kids are the ones who end up getting shuttled around like pieces of luggage and who develop enduring problems resulting from the instability."

Is that "nothing personal" as in "no offence"?

I don't want to force anyone into marrying me. I want him to want to marry me.

I guess it's never gonna happen and im going to be the sad desperate girlfriend for the rest of my life.

It's alright saying he seems quite content with the deal. Maybe to dp before I brought it up maybe he thought I was content with the 'deal ' but I wasnt and I'm not. He may well be extremely discontent but doesn't want to bring it up and be rejected again. It fucking hurts

You could point out that being married is particularly important for fathers. My DH had a terrible time getting access to my DSD because he was an unmarried father. We didn't see her for nearly a year once.

I think if I told him that he would see it as a threat.

Also not sure why you had trouble unless he wasn't on the birth certificate. He has pr for both kids. Nobody can take that away anyway.

I think this thread is in danger of going around in circles.

You just need to talk to him, it's as simple (and difficult) as that.

Find out his reasons and go from there.

Emma - she has talked to him and he's not willing to give a proper reason, he just says it's not big deal to him / he doesn't see the issue.

And he doesn't care that it's an issue to her .

So yes, stale mate .

Basically I think he thinks his feelings are more important than mine.

So after what he has said and treated your feelings, do you want to marry him if he turned around in 2 weeks time and said it to you?

I don't really understand your viewpoint littlerabbitface. I agree, I wouldn't want to be a girlfriend all my life. I wouldn't want to be an older bride. I wouldn't want to live with someone without getting married.

But... I would never in my wildest dreams plan a child without a ring on my finger. I'm not saying that everyone HAS to have a child in wedlock, but if that's what you wanted, why did you agree to have children and basically do everything but get married?

I feel like this is an issue of preferences. Some people like Bertrand don't want to get married. That is their right. Some people really do. Grown adults open things like mouths before things like babies pop out (especially PLANNED BABIES) and make sure they agree before they do so.

I think you would feel less resentment if instead of seeing this as something he is doing to you, you see it correctly as something you've done to yourself.

You chose to procreate and live with a man who even had prior form for not marrying the mother of his first child, didn't actively explore why he seemed ambivalent about marriage and now are basically going to have to use ultimatums to get him to do it. The stakes are super high (child!) and it's all resentment and bitterness on both sides. You can't put that on him. You have to take your fair share of the blame here.

If you want to actually start being deliberate about your life and take some of your power back, don't engage in all the petty stupid crap people keep suggesting (drunkenly call him out, use your child as a weapon - how dysfunctional are some people's relationships btw?), just do what you should have done in the first place:

1. Have lots of conversations about it. Try to consciously lower the stakes so he can open up as to why. Maybe it's his family of origin and their shitty relationships?

1. Third party - marital counseling with a decently long term horizon. I'd shelve the "question" for at least a year but aim to get to know each other better through counselling and talking to each other. Again, lower the stakes.

(the same underlying issues that may be behind his reluctance to get married will likely pop up in other situations so just forcing a ring on his finger is hardly an answer)

1. If you want to feel more loved, agree that he will do that in other ways. do you want more gestures? Date nights? Holidays? Not as a panacea but as an acknowledgement that maybe that side of the relationship is lacking?

My guess is that once he realizes this is serious, he will marry you. But how you conduct this fight can poison your marriage for years to come so for the sake of your child, I'd try to keep it civil.

I don't really understand your viewpoint littlerabbitface. I agree, I wouldn't want to be a girlfriend all my life. I wouldn't want to be an older bride. I wouldn't want to live with someone without getting married.

But... I would never in my wildest dreams plan a child without a ring on my finger. I'm not saying that everyone HAS to have a child in wedlock, but if that's what you wanted, why did you agree to have children and basically do everything but get married?

I feel like this is an issue of preferences. Some people like Bertrand don't want to get married. That is their right. Some people really do. Grown adults open things like mouths before things like babies pop out (especially PLANNED BABIES) and make sure they agree before they do so.

I think you would feel less resentment if instead of seeing this as something he is doing to you, you see it correctly as something you've done to yourself.

You chose to procreate and live with a man who even had prior form for not marrying the mother of his first child, didn't actively explore why he seemed ambivalent about marriage and now are basically going to have to use ultimatums to get him to do it. The stakes are super high (child!) and it's all resentment and bitterness on both sides. You can't put that on him. You have to take your fair share of the blame here.

If you want to actually start being deliberate about your life and take some of your power back, don't engage in all the petty stupid crap people keep suggesting (drunkenly call him out, use your child as a weapon - how dysfunctional are some people's relationships btw?), just do what you should have done in the first place:

1. Have lots of conversations about it. Try to consciously lower the stakes so he can open up as to why. Maybe it's his family of origin and their shitty relationships?

1. Third party - marital counseling with a decently long term horizon. I'd shelve the "question" for at least a year but aim to get to know each other better through counselling and talking to each other. Again, lower the stakes.

(the same underlying issues that may be behind his reluctance to get married will likely pop up in other situations so just forcing a ring on his finger is hardly an answer)

1. If you want to feel more loved, agree that he will do that in other ways. do you want more gestures? Date nights? Holidays? Not as a panacea but as an acknowledgement that maybe that side of the relationship is lacking?

My guess is that once he realizes this is serious, he will marry you. But how you conduct this fight can poison your marriage for years to come so for the sake of your child, I'd try to keep it civil.

I've done it to myself? Are you fucking kidding me.

I have said I wouldn't have had a baby if I didn't think he was going to marry me.

I thought he would do it for fuck sake.

Grown adults open mouths? Fuck off.

Of course we 'opened mouths'

It's only now I've learned that he won't do it.