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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

to not offer help to a relative who has fled domestic abuse?

121 replies

OohMavis · 21/06/2016 09:56

Is it ever reasonable to say 'you're on your own' to a woman fleeing a violent relationship? That's basically my question. I'm struggling with this.

This relative has been in an abusive relationship for over fifteen years. She's left countless times (I mean countless, I can't even remember how many times) and always gone back, no matter how despicably he's treated her and their child, who is now 7.

Since she had the child, me and DH have stepped in each time she's left. Taken her from refuges and had her stay with us. Lent her money. Pleaded with our local council to house her, gave her deposit money, bought them new clothes when she's had to leave them all behind.

It's never been met with any thanks... and she inevitably goes back to him. She has a 'script' she follows - desperate call to us in the middle of the night, she's left, is leaving or has fled to a refuge because he's hit her or their child, smashed things up or threatened to kill her - can she come and stay? Then, she stays, we try to help her, and suddenly she'll be texting him and defending him whenever he comes up in conversation, going back for 'visits' and eventually returns.

The last time this happened was last year. She left our house enraged with DH because he'd told her she's ruining her child's life by going back to this man. She defended him, of course, and accused DH of causing all the misery and problems in her life (long story), and went back.

We hadn't heard from her in a year until yesterday. She's back in a refuge and wanting to make contact with us. Asked to stay this summer so she can get back on her feet. DH has refused. She's apparently devastated and told him that we're the only family she has, she's completely on her own if we don't help. DH is not considering it at all and has told her that he'll provide a listening ear but no more. No money, no place to stay, nothing. He doesn't even want them to visit.

In principle I think he's (probably?) doing the best thing, and she is his relative, but I'm struggling with not helping when the child is mixed up in this too. They are seven years old and being treated for anxiety and stress. They have experienced such a lot of misery in their short life.

When do you say enough is enough when a child is involved?

Sorry - bit of an epic novel. Didn't mean for it to be so long.

OP posts:

ricketytickety · 21/06/2016 15:26

Yanbu.

The child needs to go back on the vulnerable children's list so that all the agencies are back involved to support them while their parents aren't.

You could speak to ss then and discuss if you could take on the child to give them a stable childhood whilst mum decides what she's doing. Is the man in the child's life their father and considered a danger to that child?

MiscellaneousAssortment · 21/06/2016 15:29

Gosh it sounds a tough situation for DH and you.

I agree that taking her in isn't helping so don't think about it as refusing help.

I would try and keep contact, being kind and supportive in smaller ways, especially for the child.

A lot of sympathy for your situation... It's so hard when you give and give and give, and then you are suddenly empty, and there's just nothing left. I hope your DH has some compassion left that he can spend carefully and with kindness to keep the bond but in a sustainable way. That's kindness to himself I mean, not the unidirectional flow of giving that's happened to date.

Good luck to both of you. I hope this time it's different.

BoatyMcBoat · 21/06/2016 16:08

She does need to be in the refuge. At the moment, she's in a state where she believes she can't manage without her partner, she believes that she deserves what he metes out, she believes that she is worthless, useless and helpless. You are not qualified to deal with that, but the refuge is. Don't take her away from there.

Yes, she probably will go back to him, she hasn't had time to work out that she deserves better and that her child deserves better and that she can do better. She has glimmers where she sees that he's too nasty or dangerous and provoke her to leave, but those glimmers don't last long; it takes expert help to catch that glimmer and nurse it in her and help her to nurse it into a flame which will last long enough that her experience of reality is not what her partner says it is. And that's before she really starts her journey to freedom and independence.

It will take a long, long time. But if she goes to you it will take longer.

Original poster

OohMavis · 21/06/2016 16:09

Thank you, everyone. DH wants to keep in touch now she's made contact, for the child's sake, so we'll probably be hearing more of how she came to be where she is right now, and the level of SS involvement she has at present. The conversation they had on the phone was pretty short, we don't know much beyond her being in a refuge and wanting somewhere to stay.

She knows that we'd take the child if they got taken into care, she's had to suggest DH as an option before when it got close to that - never did happen, but he was mentioned.

OP posts:

Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/06/2016 16:11

I do worry about suggestions for family to house this poor child, especially as we've been told the SIL has a history of accusing the DH of "causing all the misery and problems in her life"

Imagine if this was arranged and the SIL started with the "mummy loves you very much and wants us to be together, but nasty, horrible OP/DH won't let you live with me" ... what's that going to do to a vulnerable child?

I'm the first to admit I'm projecting because I've watched this happen, but honestly - living with other family members really isn't always the answer

jacks11 · 21/06/2016 16:18

I think your DH is right to say he will be there for moral support/a listening ear but that is it. The shelter is the place where she has trained support available who can give her the help she obviously needs. Help of the kind which, even with the best will in the world, you and your DH cannot give her.

Taking her in seems unlikely to lead to a change in behaviour on her part and may even be counterproductive. It sounds like living with you/DH gives her a place of comfort where she and her child are completely taken care of- so she jumps from one out of control situation into another where she relinquishes all of her control and responsibilities to someone else (your DH). She needs to be able to recognise she has some agency and free will in all of this, and that she has the power to make changes for herself as opposed to relinquishing all of those things to others.

I think she probably needs professional help to do that- I would think is more easily accessed via a shelter than once she is staying in your home. If she has a choice, I'm not surprised she'd rather be with kind and caring family members than in a shelter where she can't guilt trip or manipulate things so easily. It's easier to pretend everything's fine and not deal with the problem when she is in the comfort of your home.

Aeroflotgirl · 21/06/2016 16:23

I was going to say that yabvvvu, until I read that you have helped her countless of times, and she always goes back to him, and putting her child at risk of harm each time. You could help one more time, tell her that this is the last time you will help her, as it is taking a toll on you and your family, if she does this again, you cannot sorry!

There is nothing wrong with that, I have no experience of DA, but when the abuser is abusing the child, she keeps putting her child in that dangerous situation, it will get my back up and there is a line you have to draw.

LyndaNotLinda · 21/06/2016 16:30

I think you're doing the right thing. If you take her in, you're just repeating the pattern and it's not working for her or for her daughter.

I think offering a listening ear but no more is the only way to play it. And that she knows that you'll provide kinship care if necessary.

FWIW, I think you've been amazingly supportive to her and are still continuing to be.

Some women sadly do not make good decisions when it comes to men and their children - the Ben Butler conviction in the news today is a case in point :(

EverySongbirdSays · 21/06/2016 16:44

If this were to happen it would be court ordered - you can't just take a child. So she couldn't blame the guardians.
Her level of access would be court ordered too. Supervised/unsupervised/contact centre/outings/one night a week/variety of possibilities She couldn't just pop round for tea when she felt like it and start calling the shots.

Aeroflotgirl · 21/06/2016 16:56

If the partner has been violent to the child, and SS are involved, I am surprised that they have not taken the child away from her, or unless she leaves him, the child will be taken into care. Whatever her mindset, the child safety comes first, and if she cannot make safe decisions for that child, which put the child in danger, than she might be better off either with relatives or in care.

Aeroflotgirl · 21/06/2016 16:57

The cycle could continue for the next 15 years.,

Aeroflotgirl · 21/06/2016 16:59

I think also it is better if she stays in the refuge, as she will have better access to services which could help her, and it might help her break those chains once and for all. For that reason i would also refuse her. In the refuge, she might have less chance of going back.

Just5minswithDacre · 21/06/2016 17:05

Some women sadly do not make

Just5minswithDacre · 21/06/2016 17:10

Some women sadly do not make good decisions when it comes to men and their children - the Ben Butler conviction in the news today is a case in point :(

Having difficulty decisively removing yourself and your DC from a situation in which you are being abused is several steps removed from allowing your child to be beaten and killed by a man you protect and show no signs of wanting to leave.

Suggesting that they are in any way the same only heaps blame and guilt on the heads of women suffering DV. It isn't helpful to compare like that.

practy · 21/06/2016 17:12

If the child needs to be on any list it currently isn't, the refuge will sort that out. I rarely say this, but unless you have information the refuge won't have, you do not need to contact SS

MrsDeVere · 21/06/2016 18:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MNHQ

KatherineMumsnet · 21/06/2016 18:16

We're just moving this to Relationships at the OP's request.

LyndaNotLinda · 21/06/2016 20:01

Just5 - abuse is abuse. It doesn't matter much if it's emotional or physical abuse. If the child's mother has repeatedly gone into a refuge, that child is not safe. You can destroy a child's future without actually killing them sadly.

If the OP were the mother of the child, then I wouldn't have made that comparison but she isn't.

Just5minswithDacre · 21/06/2016 20:21

But the psychology of being Jennie Gray v OP's relative in law, the intent and the prospects for a happy outcome are very different.

Being a mother complicit in abuse of your child I'd really NOT the same as failing to decisively protect.

This could still have a good outcome.
*
If the OP were the mother of the child, then I wouldn't have made that comparison but she isn't.*

OP isn't the only person reading this thread.

LyndaNotLinda · 21/06/2016 23:17

How do you know they're very different? The OP's relative has been in an abusive relationship for 15 years. The child was born into that relationship. We know that the mother keeps going back and making excuses. And the child is 7. Seven years of witnessing abuse is abuse. It is prioritising your relationship above your child.

I know it's complex. But once children are being put at risk then I think you cross a dangerous line.

LyndaNotLinda · 21/06/2016 23:19

In any event, I wasn't comparing them. Just saying that not all mothers can be assumed to prioritise their child's needs.

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