to not offer help to a relative who has fled domestic abuse?

[OohMavis]

Is it ever reasonable to say 'you're on your own' to a woman fleeing a violent relationship? That's basically my question. I'm struggling with this.

This relative has been in an abusive relationship for over fifteen years. She's left countless times (I mean countless, I can't even remember how many times) and always gone back, no matter how despicably he's treated her and their child, who is now 7.

Since she had the child, me and DH have stepped in each time she's left. Taken her from refuges and had her stay with us. Lent her money. Pleaded with our local council to house her, gave her deposit money, bought them new clothes when she's had to leave them all behind.

It's never been met with any thanks... and she inevitably goes back to him. She has a 'script' she follows - desperate call to us in the middle of the night, she's left, is leaving or has fled to a refuge because he's hit her or their child, smashed things up or threatened to kill her - can she come and stay? Then, she stays, we try to help her, and suddenly she'll be texting him and defending him whenever he comes up in conversation, going back for 'visits' and eventually returns.

The last time this happened was last year. She left our house enraged with DH because he'd told her she's ruining her child's life by going back to this man. She defended him, of course, and accused DH of causing all the misery and problems in her life (long story), and went back.

We hadn't heard from her in a year until yesterday. She's back in a refuge and wanting to make contact with us. Asked to stay this summer so she can get back on her feet. DH has refused. She's apparently devastated and told him that we're the only family she has, she's completely on her own if we don't help. DH is not considering it at all and has told her that he'll provide a listening ear but no more. No money, no place to stay, nothing. He doesn't even want them to visit.

In principle I think he's (probably?) doing the best thing, and she is his relative, but I'm struggling with not helping when the child is mixed up in this too. They are seven years old and being treated for anxiety and stress. They have experienced such a lot of misery in their short life.

When do you say enough is enough when a child is involved?

Sorry - bit of an epic novel. Didn't mean for it to be so long.

I would take the child but not her. It's not helping and you are not equipped to give her the support she needs to leave for good.

Yes, if it's what I'm assuming, that is an awful situation for your DH.

I would ring social services to express concern about the child; and offer support by meeting up, phone, practical matters, but not accommodation for them both.

offer to take the child and let social services know that you are offering that. better the child with relatives than in care, no?

she is an adult but you can step up for the child.
she wont get housing or otehr support if she can stay with you. so it doesnt help her.

I too think your DH is right......to a point.
It does sound like taking her in enables her to take time with her partner to allow him to convince her he's sorry and this time it will be different - but she's also exchanging one form of dependency (on him) to dependence on your help.

I don't think you should refuse all help - but I don't think you should let her stay with you either. Go and visit her and the child, take them for days out, maybe buy clothes for the child and make it clear you do support her but that she needs to stay at the refuge and access their help and services rather than come to you for "a holiday" that always leads to her going back to him. The refuge are far more likely to be able to help her if she stays in their environment - and if she doesn't like it - well frankly that's tough. Staying there rather than in the "bubble" of your own may keep her more focused on why she moved out and access a mutual support system of other women who do what she does ( and living with other women who make the same mistakes she does might even give her a lightbulb moment when she finds herself giving them advice she's ignored for herself-)

I wouldn't offer to take the child as she won't get rehoused without a child living with her ........and frankly a child needs his Mum when everything else is strange and uncertain. They will get more help as a unit than as a Mum who has a child fostered in a better environment plus there's always the risk that Dad could apply for custody -and if she has "boarded him out" it could go against her.

How tragic and how difficult for you. Isn't it awful that a single bad experience in a refuge years ago is enough to make her distrust refuges, while years of repeated violence and abuse at home against her and her child have had no real effect on her behaviour? I don't know what the answer is, it is so complex. Having read through, my instinct is that perhaps your husband is right to try a new tack, for all the reasons mentioned above.

Does the child really need his/her mum when the mum is putting her child in an abusive environment?

As previous posters have said, staff at the refuge have exactly the expertise and access to services that your relative and her child will need. You and DH don't have that- and you know that it won't work out if she comes to you, because it never has before. She needs more professional support than you are able to provide, and the refuge staff will know how to help her access that.

I agree with you DH, he has offered a friendly ear to listen but no money etc you have helped a great deal over the years and she has always gone back to her husband.
Trouble is she comes to stay with you gets her self together then takes her child back to what must be an awful way for any child to live, no child should see an abusive relationship. Maybe being in the refuge will make her see what her husband has done to her and her child and shock her in to not taking the poor child back.

I wouldn't have her to stay.
The thing is also the staff at the refuge know how to deal with these situations and they offer support and they will know how to look at getting her housed at some point in the future.

I'd take with a pinch of salt about why she doesn't want to stay in refugees. The more simple answer is she is more comfortable and doesn't have to deal with trained staff who she can't manipulate in your home. They will give her the tough love that you can't. Stick with the odd day out but make it clear when you go home they go back to the refuge.

If her partner isn't in a jail cell then I would not help. If she's not ready to push to get him put in prison for what he has done then I would sadly assume she is on the same old path to going back to him.

I would not offer to take the child in, for all the reasons other people gave, including your DHs reasoning.

NedStark it is extremely complex. Objectively maybe he doesn't 'need' a mum who is not protecting him but he does 'need' to feel like someone's son. He 'needs' to feel the same hug he's had since a baby. He 'needs' to be with the person HE loves despite her shortcomings in our eyes.

It would be a devastating blow to him to not have her anymore. Regardless of the current situation.

If her partner isn't in a jail cell then I would not help. If she's not ready to push to get him put in prison for what he has done then I would sadly assume she is on the same old path to going back to him.

There speaks someone who has never had any involvement in DV services, clearly.

It is very, very hard to make DV charges stick, even with an unusually determined and confident "victim".

Whether the perpetrator has been locked up or not is no measure of anything.

Isn't it awful that a single bad experience in a refuge years ago is enough to make her distrust refuges, while years of repeated violence and abuse at home against her and her child have had no real effect on her behaviour?

Exactly

And while I agree it may usually be better for a child to be with relatives rather than in care, it isn't always the case - especially if it means ongoing contact with someone who's going to bring never-ending chaos into that child's life (seen it happen, unfortunately, and it didn't end well)

Your 'helping' sounds like it could just be prolonging the problem.

I would contact social services in the first instance. If a child is removed because of violence from a member of the family, usually the conditions of that child being returned home would be that said person no longer lives there. Unless the husband has completed various courses etc. I would float the idea of looking after the child and letting the mum work it out alone in a refuge, they will have better links to help and support for her and the child then doesn't need to be in amongst a all of that turmoil. There are also legal channels for fostering children of family members, perhaps this is a possibility? You get paid for it and would be able to keep the child safe in the process.

Surely the residence of the child only becomes an issue if removed by SS?

For all the sub-optimal factors, his/her mother IS his/her mother and the one constant in the DC's life.

If SS have signed the family off, they must have some confidence in her parenting, as long as she protects the child from further DV.

The only help would be repeatedly getting onto SS. You've done enough.

Sometimes people need to hit rock bottom before they can recover. It applies to DV, Alcoholism, drugs, gambling etc etc and you have to let them get their before they can turn the corner but it's tough, very tough and sometimes they don't turn the corner and then you are left with a life of "what if" but rushing in to save the day is not always the right thing.

Very hard decision OP I hope it works out for all involved. I would at least insist you won't help until she has done the freedom program.

As others have said, your instinct to help has not worked and may even have prolonged thngs for the child.

If you take stand and say no what is the worst that will happen? She will go back to him.. as she has done maay times before? Or will that difference trigger new events including prolonged SS involvement? That might be a very good thing.

It is really hard, and you may not know if she has left many time before without coming to you. It probably won't get better until her fear and dislike of refuges is outweighed by ger fear and dislike of her OH... and that, sadly, may never happen.

But I to think your DH is right. Have you contacted anyone to discuss this? Childline, SS, WA etc? They won't be able to discuss her specifically, though you may be able to give them some info they fnd helful. But they will be able to advise you on useful ways you can/should help.

I agree with your DH too, but would also offer to have the child while she sorts herself out. But she would not be able to come as well.

If SS are involved and there is a chance of the child being removed because of her failure to protect, can you put yourselves forward as family foster carers? Would you do that?

Very very sad situation but, like you, I feel desperately sorry for the poor child caught up in the middle of this. While the mother is clearly in a bad place too, it IS technically within her power to stop all this shit - whereas the child has no power whatsoever. :(

Good luck

Is it not possible for you and your DH to be the long term solution for the child, if it's likely, and it seeems it is, that she'll go back again, she's no longer fit to be his main care provider and keep doing this to him. Rather than him being in care can't you apply to SS for residency. I'm assuming this is either your DH's nephew or much younger sibling. Why should he go to care if there's family to take him.