to not offer help to a relative who has fled domestic abuse?

[OohMavis]

Is it ever reasonable to say 'you're on your own' to a woman fleeing a violent relationship? That's basically my question. I'm struggling with this.

This relative has been in an abusive relationship for over fifteen years. She's left countless times (I mean countless, I can't even remember how many times) and always gone back, no matter how despicably he's treated her and their child, who is now 7.

Since she had the child, me and DH have stepped in each time she's left. Taken her from refuges and had her stay with us. Lent her money. Pleaded with our local council to house her, gave her deposit money, bought them new clothes when she's had to leave them all behind.

It's never been met with any thanks... and she inevitably goes back to him. She has a 'script' she follows - desperate call to us in the middle of the night, she's left, is leaving or has fled to a refuge because he's hit her or their child, smashed things up or threatened to kill her - can she come and stay? Then, she stays, we try to help her, and suddenly she'll be texting him and defending him whenever he comes up in conversation, going back for 'visits' and eventually returns.

The last time this happened was last year. She left our house enraged with DH because he'd told her she's ruining her child's life by going back to this man. She defended him, of course, and accused DH of causing all the misery and problems in her life (long story), and went back.

We hadn't heard from her in a year until yesterday. She's back in a refuge and wanting to make contact with us. Asked to stay this summer so she can get back on her feet. DH has refused. She's apparently devastated and told him that we're the only family she has, she's completely on her own if we don't help. DH is not considering it at all and has told her that he'll provide a listening ear but no more. No money, no place to stay, nothing. He doesn't even want them to visit.

In principle I think he's (probably?) doing the best thing, and she is his relative, but I'm struggling with not helping when the child is mixed up in this too. They are seven years old and being treated for anxiety and stress. They have experienced such a lot of misery in their short life.

When do you say enough is enough when a child is involved?

Sorry - bit of an epic novel. Didn't mean for it to be so long.

I think your DH is doing the right thing. It's important to hold your boundaries, even if the person is a victim of DV. She is in a refuge so she's safe. Social services are involved. You have tried to help already and it hasn't actually worked so I'd say she needs something different.

She's blamed your DH, despite him having previously offering help, hasn't been in touch for a year and is now guilt tripping him with "the only family I've got" and "completely on my own" lines. That's not on, DV victim or not.

I wouldn't take the child and not the mother. How would you explain that to the child? You can stay but mummy can't? She needs to take responsibility for herself and her son.

Not much advice.

I recently cut off a friend for putting her abusive, drug-dealing, scumbag boyfriend above the needs of her child.
It had been going on months and even the intervention of social services wasn't enough for her to stop being selfish and leave him.

It got too much to bear so I've stopped speaking to her and don't plan on rekindling the friendship any time soon! So you have my sympathies.

I too wonder if she would be better off in the refuge?

I think I have sympathy for her because part of the abuse makes it very hard to leave and not return.

But the child needs protecting. At this stage I think you need to call social services. Maybe you can't save her but you might be able to save him.

Desperate situation because the poor child is in a lose lose situation.

Staying with you doesn't help though does it? It takes away her from the shelter where they will help her find a perminate solution to her housing problem. Moving in with you is a sign that she doesn't see this as a 'forever' leaving him, just for a bit to punish him, make him promise he'll change etc. Moving in with you is a way of stalling having to make a proper leave.

At the refuge they will be trying to help her move on from there, to set up her new life without him. Moving in with you isn't going to do that. It'll be comfortable, but not a long term solution.

She'll move in with you for the summer because she half plans to move back in with him in the Autumn.

Best thing you can do is offer to have your DN, either long term or for a few weekends. If she actually moves into a flat, offer financial help/practical help like helping her shift her stuff/driving her to Ikea/putting together furniture.

She isn't alone, she is in a refuge. There she can access the help she needs to rebuild her life. It seems to be part of her pattern that she runs to you when she doesn't want to deal with the difficulties of changing her life. Nobody should blame her for that, it must be really hard, but taking her in again will just let her repeat the cycle.

Could you speak to someone at the refuge, who will have seen this all before and be able to advise you how to help her without continuing the cycle?

Difficult one as the more unsupported she feels the more chance there is that she will go back. I personally would find it hard to cut her off completely. It sounds terribly sad for the child too, I would be tempted to offer to have the child when she needs time to sort things out. It might be good for the child to have a bit of a 'normal' life with you. I wouldn't invite her to stay with you but would support her in moves towards her being independent ie help with job applications, counselling, finding somewhere to live etc.

It strikes me that your H is in the same position as so many of us get to when we have drink/drug abusers in the family. We end up getting worn to the bone, and our support can actually be counterproductive in that it enables the addict to carry on with their self destructive behaviour.

You do need to ensure that Social Services are fully up to speed with the situation for the child's sake, but otherwise you and H may in fact do more good long term by distancing yourselves.

I would take the child and not the mother because the child would be better off without parents who are both incapable of putting his needs first.

Bear in mind that if this child came to physical harm at the hands of the abusive father and it went to court, the mother would most likely face charges as well. it's just not as simple as her being an innocent victim who should be given all the support necessary because she is finding it so hard to leave.

yes, she is a victim. But there needs to be a point at which she is told "look, you are going back there through your own choice. If your child comes to harm then you are also partly responsible for that."

The child would be better off in care than being shuttled from refuge to abusive situation.

It's a dreadful situation but it sounds like tough love might be the way forward here? If she is in a refuge, is she is more likely to stay "on the radar" for housing and other support services too?

I think it would be useful for you both to speak to a professional organisation about the best way to offer support in these circs? I dont know if it would be helpful to have a three way dialogue with her support team to essentially flag that they are advising your DH to back off until she reaches a certain point. People are far better placed in Relationships who have been through this.

Could you help out by sponsoring your niece to attend a summer camp for a few weeks with other children for example? Rather than being stuck in a refuge through the summer holidays? or help out with back to school costs?

I agree. You have done enough. She is safe in a refuge. SS are involved. DH should hold his boundary. She needs to take responsibility for her life, her DC and start rebuilding. Quite apart from anything else I think if she is in a refuge she will be given priority and help in looking for independent/social housing. If she is living with you she will lose that priority and you will have to be that support...again.

We don't know where the refuge is, we don't know if she's around the corner or miles and miles away. I completely see your points about the refuge being a better place than somewhere like our house, which is off the radar. Though it's got to the point before where she's been given permanent accommodation by the council, miles away from her partner, and she's given it all up to go back to him. Very little keeps them apart.

I think having the child to stay is a really good idea. I think they'd love it. DH is wary of that, though, as the relative tends to take a mile when given an inch, so would see that as permission to rock up with her bags and settle in. It's happened before when he's tried to set boundaries.

I have to say it's an odd relationship between those two, the dynamics are completely upside-down. He feels responsible for her even though he really shouldn't.

What a mess.

Agree she is better off at the refuge where she can get professional help. You're also risking your family by having the angry ex potentially show up.

YANBU. Its tough, but she is in the best place to get the help she needs.
If she stays with you, its easier to repeat the whole blame, meltdown and return to him pattern.
The refuge has certain rules, and offers counselling. If she wants to leave him she has no good reason to refuse that.

The relationship where her child feels responsible for her is normal in dysfunctional families. The child needs help too.
If I were you I would step right back.

No, I wouldn't take her either.
She never listened, so what's the point? And then you all were blamed.
Your DH is right.

Though it's got to the point before where she's been given permanent accommodation by the council, miles away from her partner, and she's given it all up to go back to him

This is actually fairly common too. I appreciate how frustrating it is for you and your DH but I worked with an organisation that rehoused women fleeing partners and quite often the partner would wiggle his way back in; and then we'd have to rehouse the woman again. Abuse is insidious.

Just to be clear, suggesting she remains in the refuge is not about refusing to rescue, or punishing her for past decisions, or failing to save her child.

At the refuge she is safe, supported and will be given all possible help and guidance. And her abusive partner can't visit her there.

Can you not behave to her as to any other member of the family (albeit one you're a little wary of)? Meet for coffee, take child out for the odd day, enthuse about possible decoration of new flat, etc. But don't substitute yourself for the refuge. Because you can't do what they can do - your help, in the long run, is harmful to her.

If the child is taken back into care, would you and your H be considering putting yourselves forward as kinship carers?

YANBU. If she's kept going back more fool her.

""She leaves but uses your house to gradually returning to him. Perhaps the refuge gives her the confidence or specialist advice that prevents her returning to him straight from there and you and DH cannot give that""

Or they put in conditions that if broken, she could have the child removed, so she flees to the OPs.

You could have the child to stay, but it would mean getting caught up in her drama (I've been in this situation).

However, it will mean that you're definitely considered as a Foster placement, if she does go back to him.

Growing up, we had relatives take us in, when my Mother had to flee, it allowed her to carry on in the DV lifestyle she was in. They helped shield what was really happening to SS, unintentionally. None of them offered me a place to live in my teen years, when it was too dangerous to remain living at home, I despise my Aunts/Uncles for it.

Family intervention can sometimes keep a child in an abusive situation.

She isn't on her own, she has a whole system around her. But they will, like your DH did, present the fact, that it is her that is putting her child in danger. Her 'ex' is the violent one, but she's choosing for them to live with the violence.

We've discussed it MrsBert and yes, if it came to that we'd step in, absolutely.

What a horrible situation OP :( I agree with pps that actually far from being cruel or mean, leaving her to access proper help from the refuge will be better in the long run for her-not least because it will make her become more independent (the reason she goes back could be -among other things- the fear of being on her own) you have both been so kind to her, but there has to be a point where people have to stand on their own two feet. Let her do this part herself. That's not to say if she does leave him permanently you can't support her in the future. I feel sorry for the child, and it's heartbreaking to think any child has to go through this but she has to take responsibility and realise she has to protect him herself by engaging with the refuge and the help they give.

Had she ever pressed charges? Maybe that would be a step that would show your DH she is serious this time although I realise this would be very difficult for her.

Yikes that is really tricky.

Its like someone with a drug addiction, untillthey are at rock bottom and ready to help themselves you can't do anything.

HOw fustrating and upsetting for you and your DH to have given so much before (emotional, time, money) and to have it thrown back in your face time and time again. I don't think you are being U to protect yourselves from this cycle.

I wonder if she's in the best place to access support and help with housing etc?

This is so, so hard. We've gone through similar with a close relative of mine countless times. She leaves, we drop everything to help her. The number of flats I've cleaned is unbelievable! Unfortunately, she always goes back, and we live in fear of getting a phone call asking us to identify her body. Her DC are now young adults, and unfortunately treat her almost as badly as their father does now- the only example of a relationship they've seen is this incredibly damaged one.

I hope that your relative manages to leave this time