You cannot communicate with batshit

[Pingpang]

Following on from a recent thread regarding those who are NC/LC with family members.

Welcome to the good ship Narcymcnarcface! The bar is stocked and there's a seat for everyone. Shuffleboard starts in 20 mins.

We're gonna need a bigger boat.

Ourblanche that was a great response from your DH's uncle! (in the end). It takes insight to realise you've been lied to, and adjust your view - I don't think there's many people who can do it. And hats off to your DH for making the effort too.

fusion I really hear where you're coming from. I actually started therapy only after, at the absolute end of my tether (it was stupid, but I had an exam coming up, and we were moving house, and then one of my girls was having a frustrating day and also wouldn't nap) and I roared at her just like you, and it scared me. And I thought, right, this has to change. And what is really hard for me to accept (which I went through with the therapist) is that that response is always going to be part of my range of responses to stress around my kids. And I have ways of coping, count to 10, imagine they were someone else's kids - and like you say, avoid the whole pressure cooker situation by being around other people, and also making sleep and time off a priority - but I hate that it's an option, a place my head goes to, and that's the legacy of an abusive childhood in a bloody nutshell.

dogdays My counsellor said try to be a human being not a human doing. I realised that the only thing I enjoyed doing at one point last year ... was my fiancé driving me around in the car.

Yes, this! I'm better than I used to be but being on the train is one of my favourite things and I think it's to do with that. You're freed from both interaction, and responsibility to be useful. I think that drive to do the whole time is part of the reason I've been overweight for years - feeling uncomfortable with empty hands, wanting to always be busy and do something, specially when unhappy.

Thank you Blanche. It is scary. While my mother was cold and unhappy, my aunt is narcissistic. I am nc with her. Hopefully will be able to tell my story, but feel blocked, though reading this is healing and hopeful. Thank you.

My sister and I discouraged friends from just calling round as if my father was drunk/hungover/sleeping it off the doorbell going would set him off.
But that was used against us
'You have no friends, you must be too weird, nobody calls for you, my friends called round all the time when I was a kid'

Oh my god same!
My mother would tell me that I had no friends and nobody liked me, but I couldn't let people past the door half the time, sometimes I wasn't allowed to open the door at all - she hated people knocking if it wasn't a planned playdate she had arranged.
Yet, according to her, she spent her life trying to help me make friends and would have loved if I had friends around more

I would make friends, but people stop calling in after a couple of times of knocking and not getting past the doorstet - understandably!

As PP have said, no talks (or knowledge/interest) about my friendships, sex or relationships, puberty or periods, no supplies. I sorted it all out myself in secret with my pocket money, first bra, pads etc.

I had the opposite, really invasive about it, inappropriately so. Made me hugely uncomfortable.

I don't mean she was "open" about it, I mean invasive - seriously!

Screen that sounds dreadful.

yeah, the end result was exactly the same, I had nobody to talk to about the practicalities.

She had planned celebration for when "her daughter started menstruating" so I had to use bog roll when I started my periods so that she wouldn't notice that any san pro had gone missing in order to avoid it.

screen - I was very much the opposite (had to sneak sanitary towels in; honestly didn't know bras had different sizes until early 20s, or about clothes sizes even since we kids lived on charity shop stuff) but I can imagine the other extreme is just as bad and perhaps way creepier!

OurBlanche, good for your DH. And yes, if you wrote some of this stuff in a screenplay it would be dismissed for being too pantomime-villainish!

Rick - and you know what, to hell with not taking up much room, you stretch your legs out good and proper and when you feel like it come join us for a up-top

One of the things our upbringings can do is make us ever so sorry for taking up space on the planet or taking up space being "needy" or getting help from counsellors when others have it worse etc etc - and screw that! All aboard who need to be and take up all the space you need.

In response to the earlier comments - I've often thought if my mum could just die then my dad would stand a chance. But then I watched a video linked on another thread earlier about what makes someone suited to a relationship with a narcissist, and realised that he'd probably just fall under another one's control eventually because that's the dynamic he needs for some reason.

We can change, we are all changing ... You know I think that needs to be a secondary mantra for the group dog. That's the big hope for all of us I reckon.

I had to do all that in practice Merd. I wore badly ill fitted bras for my teenage years that gave me tissue damage because I would have no privacy if I involved her. She would have wanted to measure me herself and other invasive crap like that rather than just bringing me along to a nice fitting lady in the local M&S. I told her the very first time I needed a bra when I was very young and she made me stand naked on front of her while she inspected and then confirmed that I was telling the truth - never involved her in bra issues again, I just made do with bustier friends cast-offs until I was able to buy my own

Ugghh, it's shiver-worthy stuff isn't it? I can't imagine being like that with someone can you?

I'm a 30g and haven't changed much at all in body shape since I was 15/16 (was a very early developer too). I lived in some cast-off 36c bras she gave me at that age until a few years ago when a cashier gave me an odd look at a checkout and asked tentatively if I'd ever been measured because she wore smaller ones than that. Why that had never occurred to me I have no idea! I used to live in baggy jumpers to cover up all the time.

Anyway, Mum actually noticed the "new look" (because perhaps it was all more accentuated than usual? God knows), and when I mentioned getting measured she said in real disgust, "oh no - you didn't let those kinky ladies touch you did you?" and genuinely looked horrified. No, that's not how fittings work mum - but she was having none of it! Told everyone I'd shown myself "naked to a bunch of strangers". Mad.

I referred to this conversation a month later maybe? And she said I'd made it up, that she'd been telling me to get measured for years and she'd been herself the week before, dad had taken her shopping etc etc. I just stared. (Which is why I'm fine recounting this conversation because she will have no memory we had it! I hope.)

I'm absolutely certain that "normal" parents do this nonsense occasionally too, but in the context of the whole relationship it's just another nail in the coffin isn't it?

I've been lurking for a while but thought I'd post, your stories are really helping me, I'm sorry we're all here but I'm grateful for the place to reflect
I'm smack bang in the middle of realising what my DM is (possible narc) and it's such a horrible conflict. She's treated me so badly and can be so nasty and judgemental but has also seriously helped me at times. Nothing comes for free of course but I struggle with the guilt. I'm sure everyone gets it but I can already see how she has affected the way I parent DS. Nothing I do is ever right and she will take any and every opportunity to inform me of my terrible choices and parenting. It's exhausting actually.
ExP and I broke up 2.5 years ago and lived together for the first year of our separation because I couldn't afford to move out and I really didn't want to go back to my parents. After I had a nervous breakdown DM finally accepted that things had to change and allowed me to stay with them but has spent the past 8 months telling me what a burden I am and treating DS like he is the devil (he's 5 and the sweetest thing)
I'm moving out in 3 weeks and she still can't be happy for me. Anytime something good happens to me she finds a nasty way of turning it around or uses it as a reason to be nasty. She is perpetually miserable and revels in other people's misery. Like I say it's completely exhausting. There's a tonne more and I can relate to so many previous posts but I think that's enough to start with! Thank you!

I should add that I was very grateful for her help with moving out of exp house but we pay a lot to live here - pretty much to total of her rent (council house) and DS and I share a room and a bed. So saving to move out has taken twice as long....

Through
Bloody hell. Thank goodness you're moving soon. Well done dealing with all that (the DM behaviour) on top of everything else.

I’ve read this thread and the previous one, and I do read the Stately Homes threads. Even after all this time, long after I went NC and my mother has died, I still find it helpful to me to realise that it wasn’t just me, that other people also have that particular brand of batshit crazy families. The first time I realised there was something a bit weird was just after I’d had my second child.

For background: Several times, my mother related her babies’ birth-weights – 8.2, 8.4, 8.6. (I was the middle one.) The reason for that is because the GP and midwife warned her that her third child would be very small, but she knew better, and predicted her third would be exactly what it was. She really loved proving the experts wrong and relating those stories.

My first was 7.15. My second was 8.4 (so, exactly the same as her second). When I mentioned that to her, suddenly all her babies’ birth-weights were 9.2/9.4/9.6. I was taken aback by her sheer rewriting the past, until I realised that not only was I equalling her birth-weights, it must have seemed to her that I was going one better as I was smaller than her. Who knew that birth weights were a competition?

There were other examples of batshittery, all related to her need to be superior no matter the emotional effect on anyone else. In the end, I went no-contact, not for any major reason, just that I no longer wanted that smirking/sneering/”mother knows best” attitude in my life, nor in my children’s.

Merd and Screenshotting - that’s some extreme behaviour by your mothers.

Through - it’s good that you’re getting out. So much better for you and your son. It’s horrendous when a mother can treat her own child so badly, but when we can see it continuing on our own small children it feels so much worse.

Merd, I had similar to your measuring ladies thing with my wedding:
toys thrown out of her pram over how things must be.. nothing un-traditional (I prefer modern & low key/relaxed)
I went along with the traditional stuff because it seemed to matter more to her than it did to me, she was really upset about any suggestion of non-traditional stuff.

Few months after the wedding, she mentions stuff I had wanted as if it was something knew I had never mentioned, along with "would have been nice if you'ld done that for your wedding" WTF, when I was wedding planning she'd been devastated when I mentioned that I might have that stuff and told me how awfuly inappropriate it would be! and then after she's all "I never said not to do that, I think it sounds lovely! I would have liked that!"

Rick - and you know what, to hell with not taking up much room, you stretch your legs out good and proper and when you feel like it come join us for a up-top

Damn straight!

'I'll build you room'

80's reference.

We'll bloody well build extensions on the boat if needed

Screenshotting

The not daring to let friends call round is in my experience very common with alcoholic parents. Irl parents with addictions are discussed - not yet toxic parenting sadly

Ourblanche - well done your dh!

When I disclosed to my friend last week I even half joked about 'you couldn't make it up!'

People from 'normal' families don't really get it, even if they're kind and empathetic it's not the same as living it.

I read 'behind the scenes at the museum' at uni. I loved it. It was only the 2nd time I'd read a book that made sense in terms of my own experience. But in seminars there was a lot of ' but that would never happen in real life' - a very few of us went quiet when those comments were made.

I do love the book but it's a tough read for those on this cruise.

Bacon - it's shocking that that comment was allowed to stand in the seminars - was it made by other students or by the lecturer/tutor? If the tutor, then that's REALLY bad, but if other students and the tutor didn't say "well actually..." than that's almost as bad. It's really diminishing of your own, and others', RL experiences to say things like that. :( (I'm not suggesting for one second that you or others in your position should have challenged it, btw!)

Ourblanche - kudos to your DH for his reaction! I hope it stops the flying monkeys, I really do. He's a star for managing to get it all out.

Ricky - you take up as much room as you need to. I think we probably have a fairly large area on deck with sprawl cushions - go for your life, have a good sprawl!

I think, because my Mum wasn't as bad as some here, Dad wasn't as badly affected by it all - so while he hasn't exactly blossomed without her, he hasn't at all felt the need to replace her either. He's a natural withdrawer - if things got too much for him, he'd walk off and withdraw into himself. He did have a temper too, but rarely unleashed it (it was scary when he did).

The re-writing history thing - I was in my late 20s before I realised that was what my Mum did - things happened, I would remember them one way, she would "remember" them differently and tell me I was making it up/lying/wrong/forgetting how it really was. But I knew I wasn't! Couldn't get her to see it, ever, though. And then I found out why - she'd actually done a Stalin and re-written history completely, to make things the way she felt they should have been. She couldn't remember it my way, it had been erased.
I don't think it was quite the same as "gaslighting" - because she wasn't doing it to unbalance me, she was doing it so she came out of it looking better.

I'll leave the coffee, tea and hot chocolate here on the side, along with some nibbles, for the breakfast crew.

Yes the lecturer called them on it, as much because it's good for students to learn not to assume as much as anything else! but it was an English course not psychology and he didn't want to risk triggering people too much I think. He also throughout us studying this text reminded us of the counselling facilities available at the end of each seminar.

Anyone who's studied literature knows a lot of authors 'wrote what they knew' even if that wasn't overtly admitted.

Lecturer was also from an abusive background himself I think (little comments he made I could of course be wrong).

Rewriting history - that's reminded me I remember reading 1984 at school ages 15 and the doublespeak etc being much easier for me to get my head round than for other students.

They were like - but people would know that's not what happened, they'd remember. They couldn't comprehend being convinced your own memory is wrong.

I spilled a lot of tears the first time a therapist told me that what I remembered of my childhood/abuse was probably true and that my parents of course had notice for making me question myself. It was the first time if been validated and I was 34!

Thumb

I hope there's croissant pain au chocolat and fresh fruit in the breakfast nibbles.

Absolutely, Bacon - and apricot danishes too, if they tickle your tastebuds.

Glad the lecturer was all over it. :)

Mornin all!
I saw this thing on FB made me laugh, from Viz magazine
"Teach your kids to dance like nobody's watching, by never turning up to their dance recitals"
Lol, wry smile, wonder why I love dark humour so much ;)

Hurrah I'm starving! Will grab something to eat on the commute

I think it would be too identifying to post about my wedding Screen but my mum organised a very very very traditional "do". I was just happy to get married (and escape) and let her have her special day around it all. I actually felt quite close to her through it; she was so happy and excited and full of the joys of it all, and I didn't feel anything particularly, except embarrassment at the fuss. My best memory of the day is getting home and sitting on the sofa of our new quiet flat and just giggling together that we'd got through it. I'll always remember that moment.

Baconyum I've never read "behind the scenes", is it worth a read?

I don't think it was quite the same as "gaslighting" - because she wasn't doing it to unbalance me, she was doing it so she came out of it looking better. yes - it's an innate thing isn't it, not an attack as such, "just" a defence.

Frighteningly I think I can do the same - I'm always worried I'm rewriting memories and often check with DH. I have a fucking atrocious memory sometimes. Anyone else have that at all?

Merd it's an excellent book but tricky for several reasons.

A very toxic mother is a main character, it's written from the perspective of sg daughter (but it doesn't use that terminology)
A traumatic incident involving a child

So as I said can be a tough read for those of us from a similar background

Some flashbacks and footnotes - a writing style not everyone gets on with.