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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

You cannot communicate with batshit

562 replies

Pingpang · 27/05/2016 22:23

Following on from a recent thread regarding those who are NC/LC with family members.

Welcome to the good ship Narcymcnarcface! The bar is stocked and there's a seat for everyone. Shuffleboard starts in 20 mins.

OP posts:
Catsnores · 04/06/2016 04:12

Wishing a peaceful night to everyone onboard.

Just popped up from the insomniac's cabin to have a look up at the view of the stars over the water on this lovely clear night tonight.

Btw the cabin is open every night- it has good sofas with blankets + self service 24hr bar/resto with low lights and wall to wall box sets and books... it's pretty nice in there. Grin

ComeOnKenneth · 04/06/2016 08:52

Thumbwitches, yes a huge step. Even though she let him initiate it, I'm so proud of her and feel genuinely hopeful we (DB, my DH and DD) can get some sort of more healthy, normal relationship with her after this.

Interestingly, my DD's birth was also a factor in the marriage breakdown between my parents (as well as with DMIL, if anyone remembers my previous posts!). My DF was jealous, controlling and manipulative from my pregnancy. My DM was always desperate to be a grandmother and she basically spelled out to him she would be seeing her grandchild whenever she wanted, and he wasn't her priority any more. Cue sulking, aggression and drama from DF.

DM spent 8 months looking after DD for us one day a week, and still sees her every 2/3 weeks and has a fab relationship with her. DF (despite being retired) hasn't seen her since Christmas and simply can't be bothered. When he was still living with mum we were planning a rare visit up to see them and he announced he would be out and seeing his friend (a woman my age who he has spent the last year inserting into any and every family gathering, including a family funeral). We didn't go.

He doesn't even ask to speak to her on the phone. It breaks my heart as DD I think has picked up on the dynamics and is always asking after him. She went through a phase of crying because she missed grandad. Sad

I have told her we wouldn't be seeing him much as we weren't getting on and he wasn't very well. I don't know how much she understands though, or why she's latching onto someone who has never really spent much time with her, and more or less ignores her when he does.

Do any of you have good tips for explaining to a 3 yo in an age appropriate way why they don't see family members? I'm waiting for her to ask about DH's mum too - although we might get a few years' reprieve there as his dad has remarried, so DD has a step grandmother.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 04/06/2016 09:41

I wonder if it's like with cats? You know how they always know who doesn't like them, and they make a beeline for that person? I wonder if your DD has got that sort of instinct?

Bloody sad though, that your father can be such a shit to a tiny little girl. :(

I would stick with the illness, tbh - just say that he has something wrong with his memory and doesn't remember people properly, so even if she did see him he might not even know who she was! And you don't want that for her, or to upset anyone else either.

Merd · 04/06/2016 09:48

What an arse.

Could someone else at nursery have a lovely granddad who gives them lots of lifts and toys and love etc? Or a character in a book? (A bit like "I want a sister/brother" can start around then for that reason?)

I think maybe just saying he's not very well and can't see her just now might be age-appropriate, and ask her why she wants to see him - what would she like to do if she saw him? (What does she expect to happen? Does "granddad = trip to the zoo" or something?)

What does your mum think?

Catsnores · 04/06/2016 10:48

No answers here but this is heartbreaking isn't it. my DM's lack of interest in my DC has been one of the main reasons why I have started thinking more about the dynamic. It's the way she carries on harping about her own issues when a lovely toddler is trying to play with her, literally banging her on her legs with toys?

Catsnores · 04/06/2016 10:51

Whoops pressed post with fat fingers

Meant to add, DD soon worked it out and says that her GM doesn't like playing with her etc, she often asks is it because she is feeling ill. So for now I just say yes GM is ill.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 04/06/2016 10:52

Also, is the "friend" actually an OW?

Pingpang · 04/06/2016 11:56

This should take us nicely to the midday buffet

OP posts:
GoodLoveShinesBrightly · 04/06/2016 14:30

Hmmm, interesting thread in Chat....has the whiff of "You cannot communicate with batshit" about it, although I appreciate I might be projecting. I see Merd has posted, I think it sounds very like the kind of thing that started this thead.

Merd · 04/06/2016 15:12

Yeah, probably shouldn't have done, or at least not twice. I get really hacked off at people who claim to know the ultimate truth, without any caveats, based on a bit of one-sided text full of red flags.

But I think I need to remind myself to stop projecting, that's probably unhelpful sometimes too.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 04/06/2016 15:39

I think I know the one you're talking about - I started reading it earlier but got distracted

ComeOnKenneth · 04/06/2016 15:57

Could be another child at nursery. My mum has a tendency to overshare/ vent in front of her (not for the past year as we thought she could be picking up on it).

Her other grandad is lovely (DFIL) and they click so naturally together, so it could be that she's drawing comparisons. Or she's like cats! Grin

Thanks for the advice. I know what you mean exactly, catsnores. It's led to w total reevaluation of my relationship with him too.

Thumb witches, DF has spent an awfully long time and a significant effort to make us all (and extended family) believe his friend is an OW. He was always deliberately vague about it. Took her house hunting with him, went on holiday together, she was only non family member at his mothers funeral (didn't give any of us any warning - raised many eyebrows but we were used to it by then!), wouldn't see either DB or I or DD without her present for a couple of years. Really awkward and strange as my mum would be expected to cook and host her! Even weirder, I don't think it in reality was anything untoward - she struck me as an honest type and she's younger than me (30), plus it was clear she had no idea about the funeral thing either and was totally embarrassed to be manipulated. We think DF was deliberately giving us the impression to put the point across that he was in charge, basically - he would be lovely and charming to friend while ignoring all of us. My mum thinks he's lied about having affairs in the past though, to keep her in her place. He certainly had one though, when I was 8 or 9. He invited her along (and husband) to my birthday party Confused

ComeOnKenneth · 04/06/2016 16:07

I think the message we were supposed to get was, look how lovely and nice I can be when I get what I want from you. Look what you're missing. If you all would only toe the line and make me centre of attention, I would be nice to you.

Backfired slightly, that one.

ComeOnKenneth · 04/06/2016 16:13

Also, the fake OW was newly married and her husband cheated on her and left her, last year. I think once my DF had exhausted her decreasing narc supply she either told him to sling his hook and stop bothering her, or saw past the charm to the manipulation. He's got his claws into another very young, vulnerable (MH issues) woman now, also partnered up - but they're just "friends"... Who he's trying to make us think is an OW. Attention seeking at its most obvious!

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 04/06/2016 16:15

Goodness, that's beyond warped! Shock Poor woman, hope she's given him the elbow now Angry

Maybe he chose someone that age because he could behave in a paternal fashion to her as well, you know, to show you what you're missing out on as well?

So so warped. :(

ComeOnKenneth · 04/06/2016 17:11

Yes, was definitely a point made to me as well as DM. He was angry as my focus was on DD and we weren't "there for him" (his words). Next to my mum, I've been the supply of choice as he barely has any relationship with DB and DB has escaped much of the gendered conditioning and is younger. DB had sensibly stepped away from him almost completely.

So, so warped indeed. It's so weird, you couldn't make it up, really.

ComeOnKenneth · 04/06/2016 17:21

To go back to your question above, what does your mum think? I think we are all so conditioned to having to work for his attention we didn't see it at first. This is just the way my family works.

This is what has really opened my eyes to my childhood: I absolutely idolised my dad, precisely because he made himself so unavailable. I felt like I'd won a prize if he even talked to me or played with me. I see a lot of DD in me, and I watch her trying to get his attention, being so excited to see him when he hadn't even bothered to let me know whether he'd be there, asking me over and over when she'd see him again when I couldn't answer, and I realised this is a replay of my childhood. My Heart broke twice - once for DD and once for myself as a child, if that makes sense. She's so loving and funny and bright. How could he do that to us?

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 04/06/2016 17:32

How indeed :(
Inhuman, really.

FelicityLemon · 04/06/2016 17:43

Hope it's OK for me to post this as I am not a poster on this thread. Given how the thread started I thought people might be interested to see this issendai.com/wp/estrangement/why-wont-they-thank-us-for-the-gifts-they-told-us-not-to-send/
As I read it I thought 'that sounds familiar'. Good luck to all on your journeys.

Merd · 04/06/2016 18:02

Wow - isn't that about that GN thread? It sounds very very familiar if not. Maybe there are identical scripts out there of course... Thanks for posting Lemon.

FelicityLemon · 04/06/2016 18:27

The very same Merd!

Merd · 04/06/2016 18:38

Oh dear, they won't like that Lemon.

I'm sort of glad that someone else has called them out on it, as well as us terribly rude mumsnetters...

Pingpang · 04/06/2016 18:39

Yup, same one...one read, it can never be un-read.....

OP posts:
Pingpang · 04/06/2016 18:40
OP posts:
RaptorInaPorkPieHat · 04/06/2016 20:09

That thread/article is chilling.