Managing money

[nightandthelight]

DH and I have been married two and a half years and have a three month old DS. Before getting married I earned slightly more than him (couple of thousand a year) and we split joint contributions on a proportional basis.

We then had a period after marriage where we earnt the same so all joint contributions were split equally and we had the same amount of money for ourselves each month (we have a joint current account for bills and a joint savings account and then our own accounts).

DH has just got a new job with a significant pay rise (around 10k) and I am on maternity leave so reduced income and will hopefully be returning to work part time so there will be a big difference in our salaries going forward.

I feel that life would be a lot easier and fairer if we put all our money in one pot (siphoning some off into a joint savings account as well) and treated it as family money. DH doesn't feel that this is fair though as we didn't do this when I was earning more before we were married.

I am currently struggling every month for money and any spare I have goes into our joint savings as we are in the process of buying a new house and need money for legal fees, furniture etc. DH on the other hand always has money spare and has his own savings pot which I can't afford to do. He puts the same amount as me into joint savings, any spare goes into his personal savings.

I feel that this is unfair now that we are married and have a baby and our incomes are so different. But perhaps as DH has said I am being unfair as I was happy for it to be proportionate when I was the higher earner.

I suppose technically this should be in AIBU! So AIBU to feel that we should see money as family money now and not keep everything so separate.

Forgot to mention the separate thing is also a hassle as we end up owing each other money for stuff we bought with our own accounts and endlessly swapping money back and forth.

This just isn't going to be workable as a family IMO. Unless as Pounding suggests he is going to pay you for the child care you are providing unless he thinks that's now your job and you get mat pay anyway then you need to change this.

Some months one of us does a bit of overtime - and come payday we get a nice surprise. What happens if you're looking after DC whilst he does extra overtime- then keeps the proceeds as it's his wage? You run the risk of him having so much more for hobby/clothes/meals/drinks and you having to count pennies for a coffee. Plus where does the money for child related expenditure come from? Is that also split proportionately? Maybe if he wants to live like flat mates he can outsource his laundry/cooking too.

I earn significantly more than my DP....an 87%/13% split.

So basically I add up the rent, utility bills, groceries, etc and we split contributions 87/13 also.

We don't have any DC yet but asking him to contribute 50% when he earns so much less than me would strike me as ridiculous.

Anything he has left after the 13% contribution to the bills is his to spend as he pleases but bearing in mind that he doesn't have tonnes left in relative terms I do tend to pay for holidays, rental deposit/moving costs, etc as he would be broke otherwise.

We are just in the process of setting up a joint account as we are trying for DC and will be getting married so really just see it all as 'family money'.

So he basically wants you to struggle while he sits on an extra 30k?

That is not a family.

1. That's still not financially fair vs your wedding and honeymoon payments

1. It still doesn't recognise your provision of all the childcare

1. It still doesn't reflect that you're married PARTNERS

4. Bollocks will that change in 3 years time!!!

1. I guarantee you that when he gets pay rises in the next 3 years, they'll be magically part of his "I keep it" deal.

1. Even if you worked out to the penny what you kept without sharing, you didn't have the knowledge of The New Rules so you couldn't make decisions fairly

If you agree to this 3 year bullshit you'll be back here in 3 years, mark my words.

He doesn't want me to struggle petal, he wants to give me money as and when I need it rather than pooling it. Child expenditure is paid by me initially as I tend to be the one who pops into the shop to grab what is needed and then I ask DH to give me half. It gets a bit silly though. Today he owes me £1.58.

Am remembering stuff from when I was earning more, like the fact that I paid all the expenses for our two cats myself. Now that comes out of the joint account. Must remind him of this!

I just re-read to be sure I wasn't going totally nuts.
When you earned more, before you were married, you paid proportionally more anyway!!!

Fucksake, he's a total arsehole.

You will regret giving in to this stupidity.

So for how many years did you earn more than him, and was that £2K gross or net?
Let's say it was net and for 5 years - bet it was less!

That's £10K.

You already paid more proportionally of outgoings.

Go away and work out what you would have owed him if you had equalised your disposable cash (and there's an argument there that you didn't need to if he was just a boyfriend). But go on - do it.

The absolute most it could have been in my £10K example is £5K.

You're telling me that your real proportional share of the wedding and honeymoon came to less than £10K? Don't think so.

That's before you get into the higher bills you paid and the bloody cat food.

The only correct response to his bullshit is to laugh, then say "get to fuck".

We have always split our money 50/50 - I can’t see how you can be married with children and not do your finances this way.

When I met OH we earnt the same so went 50/50. He now earns significantly more than me, 80/20, but everything still goes into the one pot.

I honestly do not get this “he owes me £50 but I owe him £25” stuff but am more than happy for it to be explained why you would do this

Oh hang on, you've said it was for 3 years.
So - even if you're talking net (and I bet it's net - people tend to know gross salary annually, net monthly, and you're talking annual here) then that's £6K you had more than him

So you owe him £3K.

Really you paying for his whole share of the honeymoon and part of his share of the wedding came to less than £3K?

Again, before you even get into the fact you already paid more of the fucking bills?

I'd be seriously considering my future with a man who thought this was in any way fair. Even if you must count it to the penny - his "negotiation" fucks you over.

Re child expenditure...
I actually did just pay most from my account but I was happy to do so.
But into out bills account we worked out the exact amount needed and then each overpaid it by £100 to build up a safety net in case of utility bill changes (everything else was fixed). That built up quickly and anything for our child could have come from that.

I'd do the calculations, realise that actually he owed me (I bet he does) lay it out flat to him: spreadsheet. Now, fucker - I'd say - you wanna play my money/ your money, or do you want to grow the fuck up?

I agree with all of you that the fair way would be to pool money now that we have DS and not in three years. I wouldn't describe DH as financially abusive though, just old fashioned. He wants to pay for things for me (which I don't agree with) but not sure how to change his mentality!

"He doesn't want me to struggle petal, he wants to give me money as and when I need it rather than pooling it"

That's another way of saying that he's going to give you an allowance. That is very demeaning. Again that gives him far more financial power and control here and he is not and has not been above using that against you either.

Re your comment:-
"OK so he is happy for salaries to go into one account. An agreed amount is then kept in that account for household expenses. Another agreed amount is put into joint savings. The remaining money is split equally and put into our personal accounts for us to spend as we wish. This seems fair to me".

However he will only do this in three years time"

Yeah right. Like hell he will. And I am the Queen of England. Why not do this now (btw one account is fine, you really do not need further accounts as being described because it just complicates things further). I do not think he sees his money at all as "family money" .

He will keep any pay rise for himself as well. Your innate desire to please him is still costing you very dearly here.

Boyfriend earns more, and we split costs 50/50, though he earns more, BUT

• We're both adults working full time, no children
• We're living in a shared house, so we have to do the dividing up bills thing anyway. Seems crazy admin for 2 of you.
• We both have enough disposable income to afford a similar lifestyle

Children change everything, all bets are off.

"He doesn't want me to struggle petal, he wants to give me money as and when I need it rather than pooling it. "

This is about your loss of independence. Can he not see that he is treating you like a child who can't be trusted with money, not an equal partner who is raising your family?

If he doesn't want a completely shared pool, go to the personal accounts thing now.

From a legal perspective, you're married, your finances are joint assets of the marriage, whether he likes it or not.

Financial abuse is insidious in its onset and I still think he has the potential within him to screw you completely over.

My assertion that you are being financially abused here still stands. You would also like to think that you are not being financially abused here by him cos he is a "nice bloke" really. No he is not, not if he is actively doing this to you (and in turn his child).

What is your own definition of financial abuse?. He holds all the purse strings here literally and figuratively.

Oh bullSHIT is he "old fashioned".

You know what proper old fashioned was? A man handing over all his money to his wife and her having complete control and giving him an allowance. Perfectly common in some socio-economic groups in the past. So if he's old fashioned, let him try that one.

Please, don't try to convince yourself this is because he's an old fashioned gent you're not daft.

How do you change his mentality?
You don't try to - you tell him what's acceptable and stick to it.

You could always tell him that you're old fashioned and that's why you believe in one pot. All this dividing things up is really rather modern.

I'm not normally one to reference other threads but there is one at the moment which could be you in a few years. With the OP having to request funds for things in advance - providing receipts almost to prove what money has been spent on, and only allowed to grocery shop in a specific store on a prepaid card.

He really wants you to say over breakfast I'm going out for coffee and playgroup today so I need some money, and him pull out a wad of notes and hand one to you? Do you think that's acceptable? Really?

Oh but it's charmingly old fashioned, no?

Unless he is paying you the going rate to be a nanny to your DC while at home (I understand it's around £10-12/hr, and I imagine you're on duty 24/7), then he is being a total arse. Seriously, he is comparing there's years of you earning SLIGHTLY more with you being on half pay and him getting a £10k increase on his full time salary. If you earned £3k more each year then he will outearn you within a year, not 3.

You could always show him the calculations for child maintenance and see which figure he prefers...

Once you are married and in a committed long term relationship I'm a firm believer in both parties receiving the same amount of play money and the rest going into a joint pot for joint bills, joint activities, food, housing etc.

He is comparing apples with oranges. You had only just started dating, did he intend for you to open a joint account at the end of your first night out?

Does he not feel responsibility for providing for his DC?

I'm furious on your behalf and if you go ahead with letting him have an extra £10K for three years then I pity you and your future with this man. Neither of you are respecting your role as primary caregiver and the long term effect this will have on your earning prospects.

Attila I would see financial abuse as one person controlling all the money and dictating the other person's spending. My salary is paid into my account that DH has no access to and he never tells me what I can spend my money on.

I am unhappy with the situation. Just spoke to him and he said that he is happy to have more disposable income than me as he earns more. I do feel that that is unfair but he pointed out that I was once happy to have more money than him which is perfectly true!

He also pointed out that ML and part time are my decisions too although I am doing it for the sake of DS. Perhaps I should just go back full time.

I don't think he can get past this need to cling onto money so that he can have things his parents couldn't afford for him.

KP he does provide for DC. Child costs are split, it's just ridiculous sometimes when it's being passed back and for depending on who paid for it. Also for some reason it's 50/50 rather than proportional, must mention that to him! If we are doing proportional we should be consistent.

Go back to work full time next week and leave him to sort everything for DC. He can do all the drop offs and pick ups, take days off work for illness, as you'll be busy working hard so you can be considered for a promotion.

I'm still mad for you, but that's mainly because I can't see any sense in the way you are doing it now. Also, your DH is suggesting that time is more valuable because he is paid more. Once again a woman is being short changed because caring responsibilities are well underpaid.

I stand by my assertion that you are now MARRIED with a family. What happened before when you had nobody to worry about but yourselves doesn't matter anymore.

At the end of the day you are not happy with the current situation. So decide what needs to happen to make yourself happy and start compromising. You may need to give a little and he certainly needs to give a lot. He sounds very selfish, particularly his reasoning that he deserves things when you won't be able to have the same amount of play money.

Imagine his career skyrockets and in 5 years time you've got another DC so are either part time or childcare costs are prohibitive so you decide to SAH. You now earn nothing as a wage and he earns too much for child benefit.

He is happy to have disposable income because he earns it and you don't have any because you don't earn it

That's his attitude

Just spoke to him and he said that he is happy to have more disposable income than me as he earns more

I can't get my head around why couples are happy to accept the valuation a company places on them, rather than the valuation they place on each other as equals.

He's right, you were happy in the past to have more money than him and that's come back now to bite you.

There's no way on earth I'd ever have had my DH demean himself by having to ask me for money when I was earning 6 times his wages when we started out, and there's no way he'd want me to have to ask whilst he sits there as lord bountiful now my income is 6 times less his (not taking into considerable future returns on investments which will be half his when I cash in).

Who'd want their partner to have to ask for money or be less well off than they are well, you used to I suppose

Either couples are in an equal partnership or the aren't. I'd accept nothing less than equality. If DH had wanted me in the past to match his working hours to make up some of the disparity in income, then that's something I'd happily have done with him taking on half the household/childcare responsibilities.

DH also understands that our joint decisions in the past have affected my pension and future employment and earning potential and that's something we knew and accepted when I stopped being employed and then worked for myself.