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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What the hell are we going to do now? PIL related. Long :-(

120 replies

WokenupinaNightmare · 08/05/2016 21:06

Ok, long story short. I hope. (I normally lurk) I need some outside perspective from wise Mumsnetters. I think I'm losing touch with what is 'normal'. and I have already learned so much on the Relationships board

My PIL are lovely, decent, hard-working people. Well educated, 'up-standing pillars of the local community' sort. After my difficult childhood (severe family illness) and various life changing events, I was over the moon to meet and fall in love later in life, with my wonderful now DH. Also quite delighted to discover he had a pretty amazing family who were great achievers in all areas. They were all extremely welcoming towards me, although MIL could at times be rather suffocating in her enthusiasm (her son and I had met in our 30's and as the last to settle down, maybe she was panicking slightly that it wouldn't happen for him). We were extremely lucky to have a little financial help from them to buy our first house and I am always telling them how grateful we are.

It was no secret to her children that MIL wanted grandchildren. They all knew there was a family heirloom waiting for the first grandchild to arrive. I was also slightly perturbed to hear it was family knowledge that one of her DIL's was "already on the folic acid" during their wedding planning. No pressure then. Luckily, they were rewarded with a honeymoon conception and MIL -beaming- duly congratulated them on their achievement.

Now, I should add that MIL has high anxiety levels. They have been described as 'neuroses' but if I listed them here, you may have different ideas. They also like to be very 'involved' in their grown up children's lives and with extensive life experience have lots of wisdom that has to be shared. They also like to know as much as possible and often worry -unnecessarily- when they aren't involved. I understand in the past, they have never refrained from commenting when they did not think any potential in-laws were not suitable, particularly if they were foreign and could take their child/grandchildren abroad This understandably has caused some tensions.

DH & I were able to date, get engaged and plan a small wedding without too much discussion intervention At the time, MIL was pre-occupied with the other siblings, mainly how they were bringing their children up and other wedding plans. She became quite ill with anxiety and stress during this time, perhaps because the siblings had their own plans/lives and she wasn't happy about some of them (PIL tend to ring the other siblings and share the stress out during these dramas). I am aware that one sibling's calls had to be screened by FIL as she was too ill to talk to them directly and another sibling had threatened to go NC with PIL if they continued to be 'over-involved' with their child-rearing ideas. Or 'concern' as it is labelled.

There were a couple of calls about bringing our wedding forward (why? it was the winter! brrr) etc On the whole though, during our short engagement they were very kind and supportive, offering lots of help and even donating a small sum towards the modest costs (very low key wedding).

Both DH & I are quite private people (as are PIL) and as we don't consider ttc a team event, never announced to all that we were going to try for a family. (Even though they had quizzed DH about it before the wedding - to ensure it was going to happen I assume). Less than five months after our wedding (with as yet no pregnancy announcement) MIL asked to have a private word with me. She said she knew that I enjoyed my career and that I had worked hard to gain financial independence, despite my difficulties in life. She suggested it might be difficult for me to give that up. Therefore, to make it a bit easier for me, she wanted to give me £10,000 to support me during any maternity leave (!) Bizarrely I was already 6.4 weeks pregnant and we were planning on telling them after our 12 week scan. Unfortunately, I had been bleeding AND feeling extremely ill and didn't handle my -surprised- response clearly and assertively enough. I was also in the throes of a severe chronic illness (at that time undiagnosed) and mumbled politely that it was thoughtful, but if she wanted to give money then it would belong to DH and it would be up to him how to use it. I would have told her that I was pregnant anyway, but had a bad feeling about the bleeding and knew she'd be upset, so I didn't. After she left the house, I miscarried. The pregnancy was over but chronic illness continued.

The next 18 months have been a blur of uncharacteristic continual severe illness, misdiagnosis, countless hospital visits, medical letters, scans and finally, a diagnosis and PIP application/ill health retirement. We didn't make it headline news amongst everyone we know (we weren't sure what was happening ourselves) but DH kept his family informed. During this time, I was unable to attend any family/friend events and lost touch with so many people. It was a horrid time, but I attempted to keep in touch by group e-mail and also sent copies to PIL. My friends were amazing! During my illness -where I was housebound most of the time- PIL held group meet-ups, but rarely came to the house, so I did not see them much at all.

MIL was extremely anxious when we discussed my illness with her at the beginning and sent me to her recommended alternative practitioner to see if it would help. I gladly went, feeling so ill, but it became another treatment we tried that did not work. We did not share our miscarriage with them on top of me being ill. (MIL has experienced terrible fertility issues/lost a child in the past and I could not face involving anyone in our grief, especially with the inevitable anxiety! I had enough of my own by then). Anyway, we would soon be pregnant again wouldn't we and give her some happy news. Well, I did get pregnant on a further two occasions and devastatingly lost them both, one between hearing the heartbeat for the 2nd time and getting a scan picture (10 weeks) and the 12 week scan. The chronic illness may or may not have contributed and it was a scary, unpredictable time for us both. We clung to each other and survived through it, thank goodness. My maternal age was advancing and I know my Dh was desperate for children. We had the inevitable discussions about whether we should separate and he should have a second chance with someone younger/more fertile. He was always adamant that it had taken him so long to find me, he wasn't letting go of me now, children or no children. I was very keen to keep trying (not very wise in hindsight) but he was a lot more realistic about our chances and although sad, said he had let that go now. He could see that I was too unwell. The pressure was off. Are you still with me? Confused

DH told PIL about the miscarriages very soon after the last one (16 months after the wedding) and said that it was not looking very hopeful for us now. MIL sent me a lovely e-mail about how horrid MC's were and that they were thinking of me and the only thing that mattered was to get better again. They sent round lots of vitamins/healthy drinks and cooked food. Very thoughtful as I was so ill. Sadly, I did not improve and of course did not go out or see people. I asked PIL to come and visit (they often are near seeing the other siblings) but they seemed rather elusive. I believe that because of their anxiety, DH did not perhaps be as honest about how ill I really was. There were lots of other issues in the family (more fertility angst elsewhere) and with his DM's health, he only focussed on the positives. i.e. the days I had got upright and left the house briefly. MIL did ring me to wish me Happy Birthday which was thoughtful. But she was concerned that DH was not getting out enough and wanted to know did he still see his friends? (NOT on my priority list to be honest).

During my mostly housebound and awaiting a diagnosis months, PIL would travel to the area to see some of the siblings and meet DH from work for lunch to catch up. He would come back with various updates. I.e.

*MIL thought we were becoming socially isolated (er, hello, did you know I was ill and rarely seeing anyone -not even my own family- and I was relying on DH for care?!! AND I had invited PIL on numerous occasions).

*MIL was extremely concerned that we weren't in touch very much with the siblings (er, the ones with children or are triumphantly pregnant you mean? I think my DH struggled with this as much as I did)

*MIL was worried that Dh would not have children and should freeze some sperm (DH pointed out to her that as we had stopped trying, unless I had been hit by a bus and he would have to go ahead and meet someone else in the future, that it would not be necessary). MIL came back the next day with another sibling to convince him and MIL would pay for the sperm freezing storage costs. He declined.

*Following another long call between DH and MIL, a letter arrived in the post. It was a newspaper article stating that the UK was short of sperm donors and MIL thought that if DH signed up for it that it would "take the pressure off" and wished us both luck (!)

MIL seemed to be avoiding visiting me during this time and I became upset that she didn't visit or seem to understand how ill I was. I felt I was being pushed out and she was becoming a little 'over-involved' with discussions that did not seem to involve me. DH then decided to share this with her (to improve relations?) and she arrived unexpectedly on my doorstep weeping when he was at work. She was upset that we had not told her about any of the pregnancies (none had ever reached 12 weeks) and that I was "secretive". She was also very upset that I had not even told her about the MC when she was round here last offering the money. Truthfully I told her I did not know it was a MC at the time, as I'd never had one before. She then shared her own distressing fertility struggles (about burying babies) with me and although I wish she hadn't (it made me cry) I understand she was probably trying to empathise/get closer. I was too ill to really engage with her -or anyone else.

Life carried on, both with me not recovering and MIL going back to not visiting me but DH from work. I asked PIL to visit by e-mail, telephone call, or through DH. I offered to cook (would have taken me a week) or to travel to visit them and take food (so that MIL wouldn't have to cook). Her anxiety during this time was sky high (other family issues) and she had a huge panic attack in public. DH said she was too ill to visit me (but seemed to manage to get to the other siblings ok). During an argument, he then confessed that MIL thought that I had been stringing DH along all this time. Putting the wedding off as long as possible during dating (I was waiting for him to propose!) and making sure I was too old to have children, so it would be too late. It explained so much. I guess when there was no pregnancy news over 16 months of marriage, they became ? fearful?

I continued to be ill, and trying (& failing) to make arrangements and see people. I'm a very sociable person normally and the isolation was driving me crazy! Last year we organised to travel and go and meet PIL (I was hoping it would improve relations). Unfortunately they decided to turn it into a bit of a celebration and invited other siblings along. DH and I had been hoping for something small and low key which we had discussed with them (without staring at pregnant bellies) so he cancelled politely by e-mail 48 hours before. MIL e-mailed a lovely brief reply, but there was some panicky phone calls the day after about why he had suddenly cancelled, so DH had to send another reassuring e-mail out to them that he was fine, just weary.

On the evening of the day we were due to originally meet, PIL drove 50 miles for an unannounced visit to us. MIL was very teary and clingy with DH. She turned sideways to me, would not look me in the eye and ignored all attempts by me to engage and set a date so they could come and visit for lunch. Later we discovered that PIL thought that DH was suicidal as his cancellation was 'uncharacteristic'. He has NO idea where that idea came from. (With suicide in my family I was careful to discuss this with him at length!).

This has gone on long enough! Are you still there? Sorry. I could write so much more but wanted to provide a balanced account of the main events. I have been ill for so long and had so much time to think about what has happened but I'm not sure I am strong enough to see solutions to this. Disclaimer: The illness/ recurrent miscarriages has triggered anxiety and depression, which although under control now, has had me doubting my judgements/feelings.

The happy news is that now I have a diagnosis, I have an amazing medical support team and I have clear information I can share with family/friends. I have been advised to surround myself with people who can really support me during my potential recovery -fingers crossed that happens- and to avoid anxiety where possible. I still find the behaviours of MIL upsetting and their long anxiety-filled telephone calls to DH very difficult. I can't list their fears/neuroses for fear of outing myself, but they are long and varied and at times quite extreme. All very tiring. (One being that I took their offer of money the wrong way, even though it was kindly meant etc. I see some blame coming my way.....).

My doctor has suggested that DH tells PIL they are not to ring the house or visit. How is that going to do down?! Ulp. My husband is the kindest, most caring, calm, loving, individual. He tends to be the peacemaker and is quite adamant that they do everything through love and do not intend to offend. However, even he seems to be on the edge over this recently and appears hesitant to be in touch with them.

Any advice or suggestions? They are intrinsically lovely, thoughtful people and I am quite devastated that I have lost a relationship with them due to MC and illness (rarely see my own family). I'm not sure what to do next. What would you do if they were your PIL? I hope there is someone still reading?..... If so, then thank you!

Now we can all go and have a long lie down! Grin

OP posts:
WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 11:42

Buggers I am not aware of MIL having any other MH issues, although she is a very private person, so we would possibly not know. I'm not allowed to be private though She doesn't drink and still manages to be very involved in her local community.

It is only recently that FIL has mentioned that she has been quite ill for some time, although the exact illness is vague. I'm sure they thought the same about me pre-diagnosis days. With MIL we just see shaking and panicking and panic attacks (which are truly scary). I wish she would seek treatment for it.

Actually I'm feeling quite ill myself now. Don't go away! I will be back Flowers

OP posts:
Zaurak · 09/05/2016 12:16

You know when you said they're thoughtful and generous? They're not. You're conflating the giving of money with true generosity. True generosity has no strings attached.
I have an uncle who is incredibly wealthy. He bought all his kids houses but there are so many strings attached to it that two of his kids no longer have any contact with him.
Their offer of money, like the sperm freezing, is a method of control.

Catinthecorner · 09/05/2016 12:46

OP, I'm so sorry for everything you've been through.

I'd like to tell you a story about my puppy (I swear this is relevant). Just like your PIL, puppy is an attention seeker. Sometimes, like your PIL, he behaves rudely to try and get attention. When he does I pop him in his crate and ignore him (just for a few minutes, he's only a puppy and I'm not a monster).

So I'm suggesting when you get these long, tiresome calls you and DH don't engage, or discuss, you just hang up (and turn the ringer off all phones/put a temporary block on their numbers). Ignore them, perhaps a week is a good trial timeline to start with, and when they stop pestering for attention you can provide a small amount, like a short call, as long as they behave.

If you want to be overly fair to them you can warn them once when they raise the topic. eg:
We aren't interested in any further discussion about our pregnancies or fertility.
Or something stronger:
We were very offended you interfered and tried to bribe me/my wife into carrying your grandchild like some third world surrogate, we will not be discussing the matter again.
Positive:
Yes I am different since I met/married DW. I'm so much happier and have the strength to not put up with shit anymore.

It will take time. You will have to hang up a lot. But I now crate puppy for behaviour once a day or so, not the multiple times per day I started with. And you'll have to hang up and block less and less as they learn it doesn't get them the attention and information they want, it gets them even less then they started with.

The bottom line is a ringing phone (or a doorbell) isn't your master, you don't have to answer it. You don't have to continue conversations that you don't want to be in.

You're in a strong position, their other children recognise how unhealthy all of this is. They'll probably not interfere on behalf of the PIL. And, from now on, you can always envision MIL in a dog crate when she's being difficult.

WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 13:57

Apologies, I'm not really keeping up or answering everyone's questions. Typing and reading are quite draining. This thread however is extremely good for my health!

pocketsaviour thank you for your advice and book recommendations. You're right this is unhealthy for me to be around. I was already aware of the book Toxic In-Laws, but didn't think it would apply to us. Before today, I never saw them as toxic people. Intense, ill, anxious, yes, but not toxic. The sub-title "Loving strategies for protecting your marriage" jumped out at me and I have now ordered it. Grin

OP posts:
WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 14:06

Catinthecorner thank you for making me laugh. And cry (We were going to get a puppy after we'd started our family and now I am too ill to cope with even an old dog!) You sound like a wonderful dog owner.

You have provided us with some excellent advice and the pre-school structuring is just at my level right now! I really like some of your suggestions and I hope they will end up in an e-mail to PIL a telephone call would not be listened to. We did try not answering calls, but the levels of stress that rippled through the family because DH was not picking up were enormous. I ended up being 'caught' during the day on the rare occasion I was upright and near the phone about why DH had not been contactable.

OP posts:
StillDrSethHazlittMD · 09/05/2016 14:07

Years ago, my first real serious relationship. I'm an old child, my then girlfriend one of 4. I get on with my parents but we're not close. Her family was, in my opinion, too close - phone calls every day (this is pre-email of course), summonses for family to return to the parents every other weekend for the whole weekend and Sunday lunches. Average drive for all 4 siblings (two of whom were married) being 60-90 minutes. At first it was fine and I assumed all families were like this and only mine was not. Then I learned. My girlfriend (then 23) would do almost nothing without approval from her mother. I was regularly invited to family events but I managed to find excuses not to go every fortnight for Sunday lunch. This started to be commented on when I did see the parents in a "jokey" way. Except it wasn't.

At a family event, one of my girlfriend's aunts took me aside and told me I was a saint because as much as she loved her nieces and nephews, I would need to put my foot down more otherwise I'd end up feeling totally smothered. I thought that odd. At another family event, one of the siblings' wives said she was finding married life very difficult because everything was having to revolve around what her husband's mother wanted.

Before too much longer, I bailed out of the relationship because it did become far too smothering. I learned not long afterwards that one of the siblings' marriages broke down because the wife could no longer stand the interference from mother.

When you marry, family is you and your husband or wife and any children if you have them. They are the priority. Parents and in laws are still family but they are not priority. If parents or in laws stick their noses in too much it is important to set boundaries, friendly but firmly, early on.

In your case, these ILs need to be kept firmly well, well away.

WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 14:20

Thank you to everyone who has sent kind messages about what has happened. Flowers I had started to sink into self-pity which was really unattractive and depressing and not like me at all. There are lots of other sad issues too and I was feeling rather overwhelmed with it all. PIL was the main -reoccurring- one though.

My DH tries to focus on the positives and I was losing heart that I couldn't quite pull myself together and get out of it. Having kind people recognise and describe it -from the outside- helps me to validate the situation and make decisions/start planning to move on.

Are you all very wise because you have been through this with your PIL? I feel REALLY sorry for you if you have. I hope your marriages/partnerships survived.

OP posts:
WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 14:34

StillDrSeth thank you. I think offspring on the inside have a very difficult time of recognising when behaviours are outside of 'normal'. I just thought they were a very close family and I was envious of how they were when gathered together and wished my family were similiar. I now realise there were undercurrents and as it turned out, it was the calm before the storm Sad

For those of you who stayed in the relationships (don't blame you for leaving DrSeth) how did you support your partners through the unhappy realisation that their parent's 'loving intentions' were not what they seemed? My DH is finding this extremely difficult. Because of my arrival/illness, relations have become very strained and I blamed myself for doing/not doing something (I was ill!) I offered to leave so that it would settle down again. Durr. It wouldn't would it? There would always be something.

Just debating about showing this thread to DH who may or may not divorce me! Being 'British' about things is a strong family trait and discussing it on here may be a step too far Grin. In my defence, my family loyalty/and illness has prevented me from thrashing this out with my friends. Everyone said I was so lucky to marry into this family, I didn't want to betray them and shatter their illusions Blush

Being on here has been valuable therapy until I can get back to my appointments.

OP posts:
BuunyChops · 09/05/2016 14:46

Hi again........

Please ask your DH and if you feel you have the mental strength your FIL this question: why does MIL get to keep her medical issues private and not for general discussion; but you don't get that respect?

If you don't have an answering machine get one. DH doesn't have to answer every call with a call. He can text and say 'we saw you called; sorry we're very busy at the minute and will get back to you on Monday at 5'

And I suggest setting expectations at the start of the call

'Hi; Dad can't talk for more than 5 minutes and then end the call in 5 minutes; Got to go now I'll talk to you again on Friday.'

We found this worked really well with DP's mother (though in his case he didn't want to call and when he did, it wouldn't be when he said or he'd let them persuade him to stay on the line longer ) Like the poster above it really is like training.

MIL now knows that DP will call her when agreed; when he says he only has 5 minutes he means it. The upside for both of them is that it's no longer a chore that he puts off and off and then becomes a big thing. She knows that she will hear from him when he says he'll call and that she will get his full attention at this time.

As an added benefit they both know that if she calls outside these times it's something important. (this was the difficult bit; but she hates texting so at the start when she called out side the time he'd text her, saying if there was a genuine problem to text if it was nonsense she'd get one word replies or even no reply.)

I will say honestly; they do come across as very Toxic controlling people. It can be very hard when you're in the middle of it to realise. But even the brief glimpse you've given here is; well honestly scarey.

It would be very reassuring if us siblings/partners were all closer, but DH & I are a bit different from their circles and have not really received much understanding/sensitivity from them either confused In their defence, they have had lots going on in their lives alongside fending off the PIL

I do wonder if there is a bit of divide and conquer here by PIL and the others have learnt to not share any info etc with anyone in the family. And no offence to your DH in his role as the peacekeeper of the family has he unwittingly been used as a 'flying monkey'??

As I said don't take offense to this suggestion; in all possibility he won't have realised that that was how he was been used.

WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 15:46

I should say I am speculating about the wedding not being allowed. It's just I have heard them discussing judging other people's lives and saying how someone was unable to have a healthy normal relationship because he had lost a parent to suicide. He wasn't 'suitable' you see and with their previous track record I could see them working hard through love on my DH with this information and warning him off.

I should have noticed the red flags when another in-law was deemed as unsuitable for various reasons and PIL AND other siblings expressed this to directly to the sibling. How this has affected relationships I do not know. They are married now but accepted as they have produced heirs

OP posts:
Lemonylemon · 09/05/2016 15:49

"Please ask your DH and if you feel you have the mental strength your FIL this question: why does MIL get to keep her medical issues private and not for general discussion; but you don't get that respect? "

This jumped out at me. I find it very odd that your PIL are "private" but don't respect other people's privacy.

WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 16:03

Buunychops I lost a post to you earlier Angry. You have added some very insightful thoughts here and I will definitely share them. This is key:

It took them realising that (1) DP was his own man and I wasn't controlling him, and (2) I wasn't going to buy in their mad demands and ideas and had no problem with walking away from them and because of number 1 chances were that DP would go with me. But it took a long time to get to that point.

And yes LemonyLemon, Buuny's bit about asking why we don't get to keep our private lives private is a pertinent question! And one I have been asking for a long time. My poor DH is going to find this very hard I fear.

Sorry if I haven't replied to your posts, I am carefully reading and listening carefully to them all! I have to drop out of contact for a while shattered but I will resume. All your advice has been valuable eye-opening

OP posts:
P1nkP0ppy · 09/05/2016 16:05

Good grief op!
I'm speechless, I thought my MIL was controlling and overbearing but I think yours is beyond the pale. My quizzed me on everything until I told her that my life was none of her business, at which point she sniped to all and sundry for the next 23 years!
Toxic doesn't even begin to describe yours 😳
I do hope your health improves soon op.
💐 and an unMNsy hug x

WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 17:38

Oh crikey P1nk 23 years is a long time! Thank you for the tulips and hug, I should imagine that I should be giving you flowers after that long.

It is absolutely amazing how quickly things can change in 24 hours, thank you everyone! Your advice, flowers, hugs and book recommendations have made me feel a lot safer. After losing so much, I was relying on my DH for everything and we were surviving. Each time PIL popped up raking over their upset and concern it would rattle our foundations. From my point of view anyway.

MIL can be very kind and thoughtful at times but as it was clouded by the negatives, I began to resent it. Which made me feel guilty Sad For example, since receiving my group update about how ill I was, she has taken to writing letters to me. The first one replied to my post and actually acknowledged our difficulties for the first time. Progress! Now though I have bi-weekly postcards addressed to me about all sorts of random topics, i.e. Shakespeare & architecture etc Confused with no mention at all about me or DH. [sigh]

OP posts:
WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 17:58

You know, I really did think at one time that it was my fault. That if I had a close family myself, I wouldn't have felt so suffocated by their concern.

It was on their terms though. In the beginning, I attempted to keep in touch and invite them along to events and they rarely came/replied to my e-mails. I know they are busy people, but they didn't seem that bothered. We were the only siblings to not to be invited to have a community wedding celebration at their place or have a 'meet the family' lunch beforehand.

When we did meet however, MIL (and some siblings) would be all gushy and prolonged huggy right in my personal space and it didn't feel comfortable. And I am the most tactile ever! They will talk to each other including me, with their arm draped across a shoulder. It seemed a bit false and suffocating to be honest.

I am beginning to think that I may never have ended up on AD's if the situation had been different. I managed to survive most of the initial trauma without them. This reoccurring PIL issue was probably the trigger which tipped me recently Sad

I could write so much more but I want DH to read it tomorrow first.

OP posts:
Catinthecorner · 09/05/2016 18:10

You asked if we all have troublesome PIL. I don't, but I firmly believe this is because I manage them. They are lovely, but can be controlling.

My paternal gran had five DILs and was nasty to/about them all. My mother went NC with her, and she wasn't welcome at our house but my dad would take us to visit gran. Later, once I was old enough to visit by myself, I was confident enough to just walk out. Only been there five minutes or being half way through a coffee wasn't enough reason to stay and hear venom. So she learnt not to be nasty about my mother or my aunts in front of me.

Likewise threats of being wrote out of her will or bribes to visit (I've got money for you) were easily dealt with 'you should spend your money on yourself gran'. So I didn't get those calls in my twenties while my cousins did.

So now I deal with the in laws the same way. PIL are invited to things, and if they aren't happy they don't need to attend. I watch them micromanage my SIL (where she should live, activities she should be involved in, career choices, who to date). But they don't with us, because I don't take it. So they get an invite to Xmas dinner but I don't cook turkey, if they want turkey I don't mind if they'd rather see us another time. You want to invite 50 people I don't know to our wedding, and they haven't seen DH since he was in primary, sorry no, if you want a family get together you can celebrate FIL retiring/your wedding anniversary/whatever you like. And I let things go if they don't impact me. Extended family think we eloped and that's why they weren't invited? No skin off my nose, I don't know them. MIL brings cake enough for 30 when they visit and then leaves us with it, as we 'need feeding'? Fine, I can always drop it at the office.

I guess it's easy for me because I never had to go through the hard bit of changing the status quo. I'm polite and welcoming, but in my home I do things my way, and you can accept that or leave. When I visit, I understand you do things your way, but I have the choice to leave.

Makesomethingupyouprick · 09/05/2016 18:57

I think you need to limit contact for your own health and that DP will support you which is brilliant.

If I can offer another perspective as I am a MH professional and infinitely generous when looking at behaviour Smile.MIL is definitely odd and has done/said some completely unacceptable things. But by the sounds of it, she's struggling with a chronic illness herself (anxiety) and that may be (she may equally just be a complete arse!) affecting her responses to things. Anxiety is a complete bugger of a condition, not really taken seriously by lots of people and frequently tips over into completely irrational thoughts and behaviours. And as with lots of mental health problems, it is self absorbed/egocentric. The distress of the individual is the primary focus - the effect this has on other people doesn't register or simply can't be considered as important because the person thinks that this course of action - saying what they 'need' to say, doing what they think they need to do to make themselves feel just a little less anxious, is all encompassing and other people don't factor so much.

PIL definitely seem over-involved but this has been enabled over the years by the rest of the family so it becomes normal. Some of the things they do are utterly weird and unacceptable but if my child married and their partner then developed a (then) non-specific illness that meant they were often unable to get out of bed or function and that meant the child couldn't attend functions due to the illness of their spouse or has to function as a carer rather than a more common partner role then I'd be a bit worried. Because being a partner of a disabled or chronically unwell spouse is hugely stressful and often isolating.

I wouldn't pitch up and have an anxiety attack but I'd definitely be worried. If I had an anxiety disorder, that concern could become more and more irrational and enormous.

But that isn't your concern. You can't change that nor is it your responsibility to. All you can change is your response to it with your best interests and health in mind. So do that and don't feel you have to take responsibility for PILs feelings, illness or behaviours.

You have to do what is right for you and keep stress to a minimum to optimise your recovery.

WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 19:32

Catinthecorner I admire your confidence with your gran and your PIL and I will definitely try and adopt more of your approach.

makesomething your input is fantastic and I think will help my DH a little more. As I grew up with a DM with severe MH issues, I am often a bit over-considerate and sensitive towards it as I know how people can struggle. I believe that underneath all the anxiety/fear is a really lovely caring MIL. I guess I keep waiting for it to emerge. Unbelievably I have now gone through a period of anxiety and depression myself and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. You are dead right about the irrational thoughts and behaviours and my poor DH was stuck between our fears for a while. How he didn't implode I don't know! I recognised the enormous strain he was under and got treatment for it (very hard for me with my family history!) mainly so that I was easier to live with. I feel so much better! It has made me even more sympathetic towards MIL, but she will not seek treatment, so I have to let it go. Thanks for your insights.

It is also possible that she doesn't actually like me. You know what, that's ok. As long as now I can focus on my recovery and drop the attempted communication with them. That feels manageable! Phew.

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WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 19:38

Oh and makesomething I understand they must be terribly worried about DH, I know I would be if this was my child. It's good to remember their side of it. That's why I felt so guilty about how my illness was impacting on DH's life and why I thought I should leave. He won't hear of it and says that's nonsense. He's a saint Halo

Thank you for reminding me that it is only our responses to this that we can change and nothing else!

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RunRabbitRunRabbit · 09/05/2016 19:43

I wouldn't show this thread to DH. The evidence has been right in front of his face for years. You've been telling him for years. He doesn't see it because he doesn't want to see it. He is likely to have a very negative reaction to the thread. You get good support here, you risk losing it through his reaction.

Counselling again is your best bet I reckon. You did the induction then got more ill so couldn't continue. Now you are less ill perhaps you could restart.

It will take time for him to slowly see them for what they are. You can't force him to see what he won't see. All you can do is support him so he doesn't feel like he will have lost everything if he loses them (or his image of them).

WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 19:47

So points of MNetter's action:

  1. Get an answering machine (thanks Buuny). I rarely answer but when I'm really poorly it would be nice to hear people's voices wishing me well. Well, mainly Wink
  1. Read Toxic In-Laws (thanks pocket)
  1. Set pre-arranged time-boxed telephone calls to maintain regular contact. You're right, DH has begun to put it off
  1. Follow the strict recovery plan and ONLY focus on that!

I am beginning to breathe a bit easier now Smile

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WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 19:52

RunRabbit I have a slight suspicion sinking feeling you may be right. Although there have been slight changes in the last week.

I think everyone has got a valid point when they say that this will take some time for DH to adjust to. It would me Shock

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RunRabbitRunRabbit · 09/05/2016 19:56

I am almost NC with my DM. Sometimes I get drawn into her dramas. My DH is a superstar. He calmly asks me simple questions and makes simple statements that bring me back to reality.

For example, the long phone call berating you for events 18 months ago. I imagine he'd say things like "How long has it been since that happened?" "Why do you think she is still upset?" "What does she want to happen?" "What will make her happy?" "What do you want her to do?" "What would you do if you were her?"

All of these get me to notice the lunacy myself. If he points it out directly or suggests what I should do, my tendency is to argue the point (am idiot).

WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 20:00

RunRabbit I need to borrow your DH. This is the amazing role that my DH usually takes up too, but obviously can't in this situation. I am also an idiot headstrong bull and would get into an argument, hence why I've been keeping out of it before now. My logical reasoning tends to kick in after the event Blush

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WokenupinaNightmare · 09/05/2016 20:06

Sorry Orlanda still navigating my way around. In answer to your much earlier question, I would love to adopt. However DH was strongly adamant that he only wanted a biological child. It's funny, years back I mentioned to MIL that I was interested in emergency fostering. You would have thought I had said I was going to dangle her son over crocodile infested waters. She strongly advised against it and I now realise she was worried we wouldn't breed.

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