ILs moving closer, DH's reaction

[ReySkywalker]

I've posted about ILs before, I have a difficult relationship with them and they are, imo, difficult people.

They currently live an hour's plane journey away, same country.

Couple of examples of their behaviour - deciding they're coming to visit & booking flights without checking, rearranging kitchen cupboards and where things go without asking, putting their own decorations up in our house at Christmas without asking, buying a rug and putting it in our bedroom without asking, taking DS out of my arms when he's been upset.

They're also really negative about everyone except DH and our DC. They've fallen out with every single member of their families on both sides.

About 1.5 years ago they told us they were moving to a town 45 mins away from us when SFIL retired the year after.

DH and I argued as he said I made it really obvious I didn't want that - I didn't and I don't, their influence is toxic to our relationship.
He said he'd love them to be so close.

We sorted it out, i made my peace with it as long as DH set up and stuck to boundaries.

They were meant to come to us for Christmas just gone, they decided not to but didn't tell us - hadn't called or emailed for ages and we only knew when DH called them for definite dates a week before.

Apparently we were supposed to get that they weren't coming by their lack of contact, that we didn't do enough with them when they came to visit recently (we had a new baby) and that we didn't contact them enough. Now they were going to move to a town even further than they were now. DH was really hurt.

MIL's brother died so DH and her patched things up.

Now, DH has told me they're coming to stay for a week next month to look at property 20 min from us and DH will be taking time off to drive them around and look at places!

I've said that's way too close for me and I want him to take my feelings into account. I've told him to please have a conversation, however awkward and say 'mom, a little bit more distance would work better for us'

At the end of the day, they can move where they want but since it's to be part of our lives I would hope they take what we (I) into consideration.

DH doesn't want to say anything, ive told him those are my feelings, they should be considered just as important as everyone else's in the situation and its up to him whether or not to respect me and what I want.

AIBU? I've compromised to the town 45 mins away but every time I give an inch they presume 'yeah she's fine now we'll take the mile'

Another factor in this I moved here away from my family and I wish I could be closer to them but I know DH is happier here so I stay.

AIBU? DH is making me feel like I'm ruining everyone's happiness for my own petty reasons

Thats my point Rey. Theres no necessity what so ever for them to stay. I commute 1hr40 everyday- they can do it occasionally regardless of them being family, older or whatever other crock of shit they will probably try to come up with.

Thank you FlyRussian I'm not expecting to come first just to come somewhere equal. I take on board what you're saying though and you're right I can't expect them to do something that they see as only best for me.

Another few boundarys I've thought of - they won't be doing any form of regular childcare, occasional babysitting only.

In the past when they've taken care of DS they've said our rules don't apply as they're doing us a favour...cue DS vomiting that Eve fro too many sweets.

They won't have any say in boys education - they wanted to pay for DS to go to a private school they chose (religious) and were highly offended we chose the one that suited us

I do think you are being more than reasonable OP.

If i were you- this is what I would do

Sit down all four of you when they come to visit, and say while we are happy you are moving closer- this is how its going to happen. Explain your reasons why. Your the parent, they are the grandparents. If your DH wants to disagree- no doubt his parents will have a spare bedroom "so they can take the DC for a weekend to give you a break".

I dont know whether you have talked to them about their behaviour in the past- but like a petulant child, unless you put an end to it- it wont.

Do it calmly, politely and if you do that know you are in the right no matter what is said.

How long are they coming to stay for?

You could ask "D"H (not very dear if he is still giving you the silent treatment) to talk to his parents about all the benefits of the town that's 45mins away and all the negatives of the closer one. But tbh I think you will have problems whichever town they choose, if DH doesn't change his thinking on this. It sounds unlikely that he is going to start listening to you and enforcing boundaries with them.

I agree with AcrossthePond about putting an exit plan in place so you're prepared for the worst. Definitely talk to a solicitor and ask about moving country with the DCs. And in your position I think I would seriously consider returning to work sooner rather than later.

They're staying for a week t check out the property market and DH is taking time off work to drive them around.
Last night I told him I loved him, that I'm always there for him and will always be on his side if he lets me in & doesn't think of me as the enemy.

He's just in from work, playing and being silly with the kids but has only said hello to me and that he would feed baby.

He's clearly trying to get things back to normal but wants me to start the chatting - as usual.

I don't know, surely it's not meant to be this hard, I've got cold sores and headaches from the stress.

It was the hardest thing ever to leave my family and friends but I thought I had a solid relationship and that we could get through anything, that he would've done the same for me, I'm so weary of battling to get him to see me as worthy of consideration.

When we came over first it was like us against the world, his parents are the only thing we seriously disagree on.

Sitting down with them is too much work, they'll try to catch me out and make out the boundaries are so unreasonable that they're highly offended and will either stop talking to DH or get in his ear about how sad they are because they really like me and just wanna be friends.

"Last night I told him I loved him, that I'm always there for him and will always be on his side if he lets me in & doesn't think of me as the enemy."

That's all very nice but you need to tell him that he's not reciprocating and he should be. Have you spelled out how unhappy this is making you? That it is damaging the marriage?

Presumably he has made the decision (at their behest) to take a week off.

His overbearing, toxic and critical parents need to stay somewhere else. They must not stay with you again. Talking to them face to face is I would agree a waste of time; they would likely talk over you and never listen to what you have to say.

He will never likely be able to stand up for his own self and his family unit in his own right; he is very deep in his own fear, obligation and guilt when it comes to them and is still actively seeking their approval. They have trained him very well to serve them and he also regards their behaviours to some extent as normal.

The problem you have as well is your DH: his own inertia when it comes to his parents is simply hurting you as well as he. He may never see that either.

If he cannot enforce boundaries (which is very difficult to do anyway when your parents have actively encouraged you to not have any and see your own self as an extension of them) then you will have to and do so constantly. I would also keep your children well away from these people given how they act towards you anyway; they will emotionally harm your children in similar ways to how your H has been harmed by them. You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, family are really no different.

Yes i did - the night before - I told him that these were my feelings on the matter, I wanted them to be considered and respected. That my distress level was at 10 with this. That is was up to him what to do but if he doesn't do anything I'll know he's chosen to disregard my feelings and I'd have to deal with what that meant.

His response was how hurtful it is that I don't like his parents, that I have to take his feelings into account too.

Maybe I shouldn't have but I've told him that my being here when I want to be at home is a huge sacrifice and he's the one who wants to be here, I'm asking o

sorry, I'm asking him to say 1 or 2 sentences to his parents

Thanks atilla

He actually took the time off at my behest because otherwise they would've been here for a week with me in the house waiting on him.
They used to come down during the week and H would go to work but I said he either takes time off or they only come on weekends. They do only come weekends now - but thirs to Monday evening!

What gives me a little bit of hope about the situation is this - about a year ago I pulled back a lot from the dynamic. I realised I was being a buffer, I'd fill the awkward silences and do the Mother's Day/Birthday cards, I was the one replying to their emails with pic of boys. Told him that was his responsibility, often went out when they came and no longer filled the silence. Although he won't admit it he found it hard work and pulled back himself. The silences are really telling - they can't speak to each other normally without me jollying it along asking questions etc

Anyway when they come, I'm going to leave them to it, baby with me, older DS at school - a whole week dealing with them with no buffer might take the shine off

a whole week dealing with them with no buffer might take the shine off

I think this is a really good idea. Disengage from it, leave them to it. Plan lots of things and appointments for the week that they are here. He will find out what hard work they are by himself.

...and in their usual move - we're coming for a week - books flights that mean they're here for 9 days 🙄

I've already booked loads of yoga classes for the evenings so I'll hopefully be serene and calm and able to float above their bullshit 🙏 Namaste dopes

His response was how hurtful it is that I don't like his parents, that I have to take his feelings into account too.

Oh fgs, this would be a ridiculous statement even if they were perfectly nice, normal people. Regrettable maybe, but hurtful? You can't help who you like and who you don't like. He sounds awfully manipulative himself tbh.

I think you're taking things very well Rey, considering not staying has turned into staying for a week and a week has become 9 days already. The 'mission creep' is a real worry. It would be really good if he would talk about things more instead of just being stubborn and hurt. Much more hurtful for you, in truth.

Leaving him to bear the brunt is a good strategy.

...and in their usual move - we're coming for a week - books flights that mean they're here for 9 days

And so it begins…….

Your plan to be gone as much as possible is a wise one. Force him into dealing with them on his own. You don't happen to have a friend close by who can have a 'personal crisis' that necessitates you staying with her, do you?

Of course, they may decide to be on their 'best behaviour' during this house-hunting expedition to trick him into thinking everything will be rosy and wondering what you're so upset about.

You've all been so helpful, thank you.

I've come to thinking that I'm done with them now if my feelings aren't considered. He always says 'can you please just be as nice to my parents as I am to yours' I almost feel like it's a threat like he'll be horrible to my parents if I don't comply.
But it's v easy to be nice to nice people, my parents love him and always ask if he's ok with them coming, that they can come another time if it doesn't suit him and always tell him not to think he has to entertain them.

It's morning here and I've just come to the thought that he has a choice.

Back me and we can make the best of their move. Set up boundaries, I'll be friendly and courteous when I see them because I'll feel supported. We'll be a team and I'll help him when they get difficult

Let me down and every part of the move will be hard. I'm going to avoid seeing them at all costs and when I do, I'm doing nothing for them, it's all on him. When they get difficult, I'm not even going to listen to it and he deals with them all on his own

This morning DH said he's not going to tell them where to live but say he doesn't want us all to be in each other's pocket & only going to bring them to look from first town north and about an hour south and will sit down with them and lay boundaries like - our house isn't their second home, they can't get annoyed if we say no to seeing them, Rey doesn't have to be there every time, if we don't see them for a long time it just means we're busy or wanna be by ourselves, they can't make demands to see boys and loads else - so relieved

Good

What gives me a little bit of hope about the situation is this - about a year ago I pulled back a lot from the dynamic. I realised I was being a buffer, I'd fill the awkward silences and do the Mother's Day/Birthday cards, I was the one replying to their emails with pic of boys. Told him that was his responsibility, often went out when they came and no longer filled the silence. Although he won't admit it he found it hard work and pulled back himself. The silences are really telling - they can't speak to each other normally without me jollying it along asking questions etc

Are you me? This is all so close to home. I really feel for you and hope you get an outcome you're comfortable with.

My MIL told me that I would learn not to pick up my crying two week old baby ahahahaha.

What actually helped the most was me writing her a letter. DP added a bit on end. She replied, was basically dismissive of everything, especially end but and I said she'd have to ask her son about that. They came to visit after we moved away and she started shouting and crying in the restaurant. It was all very Jeremy Kyle. I haven't had to see them since. DP takes the kids to see them or meets them somewhere and always comes back exhausted because she is such hard work. I get a hot cuppa and time to read uninterrupted though.

Is this something your DH could do? They are still your DC's grandparents.

Could you all move closer to your family in the future?

At least your childrens future spouses won't have a MIL like yours. You've been given a crash course in exactly how not to behave.

Best of luck.

I think what's he's said is a good compromise, one that you can support each other in.

Yes acrossthepond and thanks so much for your advice.

Hopefully he'll be able to keep his resolve when they turn the guilt on, he's said he can predict them throwing their toys out of the pram and saying fine, we won't move down at all - but the fact he's seeing them more clearly is such a relief!
I feel like celebrating, being understood & acknowledged is like a weight's been lifted

Red - your original list is just normal behaviour for any civilised person - I do not think that it is particularly tough for these types of people - you could add frequency and duration of visits as well? These I would have typed up so that your DH is in no uncertain terms what is required.

I understand that he seeks to be diplomatic with his parents - but his list

our house isn't their second home, they can't get annoyed if we say no to seeing them, Rey doesn't have to be there every time, if we don't see them for a long time it just means we're busy or wanna be by ourselves, they can't make demands to see boys and loads else - so relieved

Is quite diluted from what you need to instil - fine if that is his opening gambit and in reality he will enforce your list...? When will he say this to them - will you do it together?

You also need to keep vigilant on these boundaries and hold DH to account - they will push and push and push - you also need to ensure they are reviewed regularly and new ones added.

These are hideous toxic people - no friends or hobbies constant conflict and control by the threat of kicking off tells you all you need to know. Your kids don't need them I their lives - keep your distance.

Start with the boundaries right now - NIP the 9 day thing in the bud immediately - 7 days was agreed is sufficient - 9 is inconvenient - you do not need to apologise or justify - they just need to accept your house your rules.

I also think "they can't get annoyed" and "they can't make demands" are not realistic. They ARE going to get annoyed and make demands. The question is how DH deals with it.

He's asked me to have a think and give him a list of boundaries that are important to me and he'll convey them.

He's said hes planning to say 'no thanks, we're going to spend the weekend just us' a good few times over the first few months to set a precedent that we don't always have to have an excuse or be busy to see them. That if we say no to them coming and they come anyway or they say we're in town can we come that he'll say no.
He's said if they agree to the boundaries and start stepping over them he will repeat them and not stand for it.

This all came from himself with no input from me so I'm feeling really positive and quite impressed with him.

I know it'll be difficult for him to break out of a lifelong habit of giving in to them but the boundaries he listed all came totally from him so I'm feeling positive that he's breaking free from the fog.

He lost his best friend to suicide two years ago - he's who he'd usually talk things through with and he's said not being able to do that has focused his mind on what's important and who's been there for him. His mom really let him down at the time - sent a formal email of condolence to him and never mentioned it again.

I know it won't be all easy from now on but I also know for sure now that he will put us and our family first. We'll get through the shit bits together rather than from opposing sides.

I'm really glad that your DH seems to be on side now, it's a huge improvement. However, it's a long journey ahead and I think he needs to be realistic about how his will deal with his parents when (when, not if!) they react negatively to his boundary setting. They won't agree to it; they will argue, criticise, sulk, manipulate, ignore. When they do that, how will he react? Will he get sucked back in to appeasing them and blaming you? Or will he stay strong and stand up to them? Is he going to equip himself with some help now (eg through counselling, reading the Toxic Parents book, etc) to ensure he can cope when things get tough?

He is definitely saying all the right things, which is great, but the proof will be in how he behaves now and in future.

Your posts have been so helpful anotheremma

To be honest if they kick off at the boundary talk I think he'd stick to his guns because he has said 'they can't disagree as they're v reasonable'

I'm more worried about them agreeing ie of course, we were never thinking of being so overbearing - and then the mission creep begins with with 'we just have some valentines/Halloween/any public holiday gifts for the boys so we're coming over' or 'we were just in your town for some other reason we'll call in'

I'm under no illusion that they will take the boundaries on board with the intention of sticking to them but I'm feeling a lot more positive that DH can see and will deal with it