ILs moving closer, DH's reaction

[ReySkywalker]

I've posted about ILs before, I have a difficult relationship with them and they are, imo, difficult people.

They currently live an hour's plane journey away, same country.

Couple of examples of their behaviour - deciding they're coming to visit & booking flights without checking, rearranging kitchen cupboards and where things go without asking, putting their own decorations up in our house at Christmas without asking, buying a rug and putting it in our bedroom without asking, taking DS out of my arms when he's been upset.

They're also really negative about everyone except DH and our DC. They've fallen out with every single member of their families on both sides.

About 1.5 years ago they told us they were moving to a town 45 mins away from us when SFIL retired the year after.

DH and I argued as he said I made it really obvious I didn't want that - I didn't and I don't, their influence is toxic to our relationship.
He said he'd love them to be so close.

We sorted it out, i made my peace with it as long as DH set up and stuck to boundaries.

They were meant to come to us for Christmas just gone, they decided not to but didn't tell us - hadn't called or emailed for ages and we only knew when DH called them for definite dates a week before.

Apparently we were supposed to get that they weren't coming by their lack of contact, that we didn't do enough with them when they came to visit recently (we had a new baby) and that we didn't contact them enough. Now they were going to move to a town even further than they were now. DH was really hurt.

MIL's brother died so DH and her patched things up.

Now, DH has told me they're coming to stay for a week next month to look at property 20 min from us and DH will be taking time off to drive them around and look at places!

I've said that's way too close for me and I want him to take my feelings into account. I've told him to please have a conversation, however awkward and say 'mom, a little bit more distance would work better for us'

At the end of the day, they can move where they want but since it's to be part of our lives I would hope they take what we (I) into consideration.

DH doesn't want to say anything, ive told him those are my feelings, they should be considered just as important as everyone else's in the situation and its up to him whether or not to respect me and what I want.

AIBU? I've compromised to the town 45 mins away but every time I give an inch they presume 'yeah she's fine now we'll take the mile'

Another factor in this I moved here away from my family and I wish I could be closer to them but I know DH is happier here so I stay.

AIBU? DH is making me feel like I'm ruining everyone's happiness for my own petty reasons

Could you say that actually you've spent a long time living where he wanted to be and now it's time for you to move to where you would like to be (ie near your parents) and see how he reacts to that.

Or to the news that actually your parents are going to move down to be 20 minutes away so that you can spend lots of time with them...

Whether it happens or not, or you do actually want to move/them to move etc is irrelevant - it's more his reaction to them coming / you going and how that might have knock on effects on what happens next with him and your PIL that will be interesting!

Thank you all for your replies both YABU and YANBU.

I've let so many things go in the past, we've both been blatantly mistreated by them and I've never spoken up.

Maybe I am being unreasonable but my gut is screaming at me that my feelings need to be considered important by DH.

This is stressing me out so much because I think, in DH's heart he'd rather hurt me than risk being unpopular with them

Good post by Fern, I agree that getting DH on the same page is crucial, and I hope it's possible, but it will probably be difficult (he hasn't exactly shown promise so far). Hence my suggestions of the books and couple's therapy if needed.

I'm mystified by the responses here. OP isn't trying to be bossy here, she is trying to stop family relationships deteriorating even further.

How bizarre to sit back and say 'well I can't tell them where to live' then watch as the situation inevitably blows up several months after they move. Why would you not try and avert that, even if it does upset them now, to try and preserve something longer term?

OP, your in laws sound controlling, I would definitely read the Toxic Parents/ In Laws books recommended above, and post in the Relationship forum.

Sadly they will do their best to ignore any hints you or DH make about them moving closer. And if your DH does try to exert boundaries they will tantrum, guilt him, and when he gives in and apologises, probably decide to move 10 minutes away!

I do think them moving so close will make things much harder though as you will see them more often and have fewer barriers between you- they can hop in their car and drive over anytime, and stay as long as they wish without a booked flight.

You need to get your DH to break out of the FOG of fear obligation guilt and set firm boundaries with them. They will fight against them. My ILs fought against our boundaries for a year with all sorts of emotional manipulation, my DH made it clear that to have any relationship they needed to respect our boundaries, and now they reluctantly have. They don't understand them, but they stick to them. What gave my DH the courage to do this was thinking about the effects his ILs would have on our DC as they grew up, and how our DC would see their own father being controlled and manipulated by their GPs, and he decided that change, however painful, had to happen, and that he was willing to break contact to avoid them damaging his family.

Cross post. Listen to your gut! You are completely right that DH should consider your feelings. You do need to talk to him and be very clear about how your ILs behaviour and him taking their side over yours has made you feel. I hope he listens and doesn't choose them over you, as you fear. But if you're right and he does choose them, you need to rally lots of support for yourself (from your parents, friends, maybe a counsellor) and consider walking away.

Your reply is really helpful Fern thanks

The thing is,when we spoke about this 1.5 years ago - I was against their moving 45 mins away but I met him halfway - we had the conversation about boundaries and being on the same side. He agreed to talk to me about any big decisions or agreeing to anything they would affect me.

Now all that's been disregarded and he's actively helping them find a place closer again,

You're right though in your post, we have to be unitef

That's kind of what I was getting at in my PP Rey, you need to get your DH on your side rather than theirs. It's hard when your DH doesn't do that automatically but some people do tend to go on the defensive (especially where their parents are concerned) if they feel they're stuck in the middle so you need to remind him that you and he are supposed to be a team. I don't think you do that by insisting he tries to stop them moving closer though, managing their behaviour regardless of where they live is much more important and of much more benefit to you.

Thanks anotheremma and hopelessly, so helpful - I'll download that book

This is stressing me out so much because I think, in DH's heart he'd rather hurt me than risk being unpopular with them Now that's the crux. FIL and DH are the same and he lives a plane ride away (same country again). He may move closer. I can't and wouldn't stop him but my house is my house and I will have my boundaries respected.

DH once floated the idea of him moving in with us. I told him that he could only live with one of us so he'd better choose.

God, they sound intolerable. In my view, they are narcissistic (or perhaps only one of them and the other is a sheep) and your DH has had a lifetime of having his chain yanked by being put alternately in the position of golden child and reject. I know 'narc' is bandied about on MN a lot, but I grew up in such a family and recognise the fucked up dynamics. Agree with pp that you can't actually control what they do, so best to give that one up; also take heart from the fact that plans that are promised/threatened very often don't come to fruition with a narcissist because the point is to control others, not actually to move house (or whatever it may be). The key, as everyone's said, is to make DH understand what's going on here and be a team. Easier said than done, as he has grown up on the receiving end of this nonsense and won't be able to see it for what it is, still less resist it. You need to talk lots, get him to talk about the family and power dynamics when he was growing up, talk about all the estranged family members and what happened (you will easily be able to point out floridly unreasonable behaviour that he has never thought to characterise as unacceptable). Help him peel the scales off his eyes. Even if the ILs do move closer to you in the end, all that talking and reframing of events and behaviour will put you in a better position to deal with them going forward and will make him psychologically stronger and healthier in his own right. Tread sensitively. They are still his family and if he is the only one still in contact with them he will be feeling a heady mixture of pride, despair and survivor guilt.

Sorry Rey cross posted with you, the thing for me is that I doubt even your DH will have much influence over where they move to so whether he takes your feelings into account is irrelevant as they won't care how you or DH feel about it. You are, in effect, making him responsible for their decision and he isn't, they are and they don't care whether either of you are happy about it. I know that makes no sense to you because you would care but they obviously don't think the same way you do or take other people's feelings into account the way you would.

I think that you need to decide what you will and will not tolerate from your iLs in your home. And then decide what you will do about it if those lines get crossed. Once you've thought that out you need to let your DH know what you've decided so that he's prepared if (when) the shit hits the fan. Perhaps if you let him know sooner rather than later it may influence him to stop encouraging his parents to move quite so close. If DH is faced with you and/or DSs making yourselves scarce every time his parents visit and him having to explain your absence, or him hearing the fallout from his parents when you speak your mind he may think twice about wanting them so near.

He may not be able to stop them from moving closer, but he can certainly let them know it's not the best idea.

I agree with what Fern said. Have you asked your DH what he thinks is reasonable? Because he seems to be in a grim place at the moment, caught between his parents and his wife both having a go at him! Your option/ideas need to be the easy choice for him otherwise he'll feel as if he's being controlled from both sides. He can't win as things stand, if you can come up with a middle-ground option that has something everyone can work with then it will be the obvious choice

Thanks all, the middle ground was the town 45 mins away then it shifted.

MrsLupo your post is really insightful, DH is now the good boy and his brother is the one they're complaining about. They live in different countries but they're never both in the good books at the time - one is good, one is bad then reverse.

I've told him I love him lots and we can be on the same side. He said he needs time to think. He's barely spoken to me all say

No, the middle ground as things stand now. Not as they were. Work with what you have, you can't change their minds!

Think about what?
Barely speaking to you is not a very good sign

Cotswold
"Your option/ideas need to be the easy choice for him"
Why? What about her needs?
It's important for him to set boundaries with his parents. That's not "the easy choice" but it's vital.

I think that you need to decide what you will and will not tolerate from your iLs in your home. And then decide what you will do about it if those lines get crossed. Once you've thought that out you need to let your DH know what you've decided so that he's prepared if (when) the shit hits the fan. Perhaps if you let him know sooner rather than later it may influence him to stop encouraging his parents to move quite so close. If DH is faced with you and/or DSs making yourselves scarce every time his parents visit and him having to explain your absence, or him hearing the fallout from his parents when you speak your mind he may think twice about wanting them so near.

Absolutely! It's your home and your family unit just as much as DH. Time to get some lines in the sand regarding ILs, tell your DH what these lines are and STICK TO THEM. Make it clear you are happy to be around ILs so long as they respect you and your home. As soon as they don't - xyz will happen.

As above - if you make it crystal clear to him that there are things in your home that you will not tolerate and that there will be fall-out, and what that fall-out will be - hopefully it might encourage him to take his head out of his arse where his parents are concerned and start thinking about your feelings instead of theirs.

I'm not sure what he has to think about - hopefully how to go about telling them.
With my parents it would be easy, we could even joke about it but I know for him the thought of saying anything that might seem offensive to his parents is unbearable.

It's so frustrating because if he let me in, I could help him. Everyone else in his family have treated him badly except me, I've always been in his corner and yet, my feelings are the last to be considered.

When they're withdrawing from him he can see how difficult they are but when they've made up there's nothing wrong at all - at the moment he's adamant that they have a good relationship and the only problem is that I don't like them.

I've begged him to see a therapist or counsellor to get an outside perspective but he won't

Would he read the Toxic Parents book if you gave it to him?

No I think he'd get angry for my suggesting they're toxic.
He is wilfully blind when it comes to this.

He sounds so weak - and maybe he is but my heart is breaking for him, he equates their moving closer to him as confirmation they love him.

SFIL is in the military, they moved countries seperate DH from his dad and brother at 14. Then when he was 18 they moved countries again but left DH in the first new country with no relatives or support network.

He's been basically on his own since - no family support. When we got together I didn't realise the extent of the dysfunction because we never saw them, but of course when DS came along MIL decided that now she did want family life and it would be on her terms.

I feel for you - they are going to move and presumably know nobody but you in the area so they will be quite reliant on you and your family. Even for families on an even keel that could be stressful.

But I dont think you can tell them where to live - houses are the biggest investments anyone of us makes and they need to chose what they think is the right house and area for them.

You need to present the town 45 minutes away as a better option (and find reasons that dont just relate to your worries to bolster your argument - better hospital? more social opportunities? clubs? what are their interests beyond their grandchildren and son?) but you are not in a position to dictate where they spend their money.

And if they do move closer work out how you can make the new arrangements work best - no keys for example - and then stick to it and ignore complaints, "I'm sorry that doesnt work for us" etc, etc.

Can't you at least try giving him the book?
He might be angry at first but then he might calm down and think about it.
Is he more receptive to you when he's in their bad books and they're treating him badly?
I think it's concerning that he is married to you but more loyal to them. If he refuses to listen to you, accept there is a problem or get counselling (individual or joint) it's a lost cause tbh.

Emma I think you've misunderstood me. It's not ignoring the OP's needs, but at the moment her DH can't make everyone happy and he certainly isn't happy either - he sounds completely torn by it all. He's being hit on both sides with demands (because it doesn't sound as if he asked his parents to move close, that's what they have decided) and if he was presented with an option that had a bit of a 'win' in it for all involved I think he'd jump at the chance. Especially if it was what he wanted (I'm not sure anyone has asked him yet!).

Cotswold There is no "win". His parents are toxic, they will do what they want, and he won't even accept that let alone put boundaries in place - so he will be at their mercy until he changes his position. And so will the OP if she stays with him.