ILs moving closer, DH's reaction

[ReySkywalker]

I've posted about ILs before, I have a difficult relationship with them and they are, imo, difficult people.

They currently live an hour's plane journey away, same country.

Couple of examples of their behaviour - deciding they're coming to visit & booking flights without checking, rearranging kitchen cupboards and where things go without asking, putting their own decorations up in our house at Christmas without asking, buying a rug and putting it in our bedroom without asking, taking DS out of my arms when he's been upset.

They're also really negative about everyone except DH and our DC. They've fallen out with every single member of their families on both sides.

About 1.5 years ago they told us they were moving to a town 45 mins away from us when SFIL retired the year after.

DH and I argued as he said I made it really obvious I didn't want that - I didn't and I don't, their influence is toxic to our relationship.
He said he'd love them to be so close.

We sorted it out, i made my peace with it as long as DH set up and stuck to boundaries.

They were meant to come to us for Christmas just gone, they decided not to but didn't tell us - hadn't called or emailed for ages and we only knew when DH called them for definite dates a week before.

Apparently we were supposed to get that they weren't coming by their lack of contact, that we didn't do enough with them when they came to visit recently (we had a new baby) and that we didn't contact them enough. Now they were going to move to a town even further than they were now. DH was really hurt.

MIL's brother died so DH and her patched things up.

Now, DH has told me they're coming to stay for a week next month to look at property 20 min from us and DH will be taking time off to drive them around and look at places!

I've said that's way too close for me and I want him to take my feelings into account. I've told him to please have a conversation, however awkward and say 'mom, a little bit more distance would work better for us'

At the end of the day, they can move where they want but since it's to be part of our lives I would hope they take what we (I) into consideration.

DH doesn't want to say anything, ive told him those are my feelings, they should be considered just as important as everyone else's in the situation and its up to him whether or not to respect me and what I want.

AIBU? I've compromised to the town 45 mins away but every time I give an inch they presume 'yeah she's fine now we'll take the mile'

Another factor in this I moved here away from my family and I wish I could be closer to them but I know DH is happier here so I stay.

AIBU? DH is making me feel like I'm ruining everyone's happiness for my own petty reasons

Rey I totally get why you are worried, but you are focused on the wrong thing. If they moved 45 min away, they could still be a pain, drop in any time, trample on your boundaries, not call when coming over, move stuff in your house, reject your husband. This stuff won't change if they are 20 min or 45 min.

You are focusing on the wrong thing which is that you think by keeping them an extra 25 min away, you will have some control in the situation.

The key problem is that your husband is actually happy they are moving close, so however much you have your issues with it, it looks ok to him.

You need to be talking with him about the behaviours you are worried about, and how boundaries would be established (e.g. how often to call over). My parents live 30 min away and come over once week, is that going to be too much for you? Will he be the one to host? Will he stick up for you if they are inappropriate or don't respect you?

You are on a hiding to nothing trying to specify they move 45 min away but not 20, honestly.

Try to be positive, agree with other posters you cannot tell them where to live. A 20 minute drive is not the next street and may work in your favour. As other people have said, no excuse for them staying with you, bringing a rug or rearranging your cupboards & visits can be limited to an hour and a cuppa, and if and when the time comes (and it will, I am there now) that they are of age where they need more help, you may well be grateful that you are closer to help and your DH doesn't carry the guilt of living too far from them.

I have toxic relatives and a very old but toxic friend, I find living close and spending regular small amounts of time with them far far preferable to spending intense longer periods in the same house on a less regular basis.

Hi all - we're going to move this to Relationships at the OPs request.

I remember your previous posts OP.

This is a really difficult one and everyone coming at your DH with their wants and needs is probably stressing him out no end. Sounds as if the poor guy is in an impossible position.

Would you feel able to talk directly to your MIL and tell her how you see this working in a calm and forceful manner? Difficult, I know but I think you've learned from previous experience your DH is unable to confront this parents and it sound like someone has to.

As PPs have said, it could work to your advantage to have them nearer - no staying over - as long as you make your boundaries very clear, and make very clear to your DH under no circumstances are they to have a key to your home, ever.

OP - I think you've got hung up on 'acceptable distance' when really, an extra 25 minute drive wouldn't by itself mean that you'd see less of your PIL, if anything, it being such a long drive might mean they would have to come for a whole day, or expect you to go for a whole day, rather than be close enough that your DH can pop by for a coffee on the way to do something else...

They aren't in your town, you aren't going to be bumping into them, or be a location they are 'just passing so called in'.

Accept this is happening, work on where the boundaries should be. ie. you expect a call before they come over and check it's ok. No coming over at bath/bedtimes. Your DH doesn't expect to spend more than 1 day every other weekend with them. He encourages them to build their own friendship network etc.

Whenever they do move, you will at that point have to work at avoiding 'bad habits' being formed - I would suggest the first weekend after they move, you arrange to go for lunch out somewhere near their new home - being out that means it's easier to control when you leave but what a lovely DIL you look for making an effort - to your DH you can say you are "trying" with them. Make sure you have plans for the following 2-3 weekends that take you out of the house (so if they decide to just pop over, you and DH aren't there). If you are a SAHM, make sure you are out of the house daily for the first month they move - hard work, but worth stopping any 'popping in' becoming the norm.

oh and do not let them have a key! That would be a 'red line' situation with DH. If they are going to be that close, he can't let them just let themselves in.

Where the ILs live is completely irrelevant. What they do in or within shouting distance of YOUR house is the point.

Set clear boundaries on what you will and won't accept in your own house, and sod then. They sound awful.

sod them.

A bit of perspective - I live with my MIL (a traditionally 'done' thing in the culture I'm from). It has not been easy to reach a 'happy' place. My experience of dealing with things, and here I would agree with MattDillonsPants, is that you essentially pick your battles and just let some things go because at the end of the day, your most important boundaries are your relationship with your children and husband. And at the end of the day, no matter how close they are, they will ultimately go home, you can shut the door on them and breathe a sigh of relief until next time. Chin up Rey

I don't think you can realistically ask your DH to tell them they can't live too close. I mean, chances are, they wouldn't listen anyway - they sound horrendous and I can't see why they'd take any notice. I bet they'd totally ignore it.

You can explain your position to him, and tell him that they won't be able to have a key, that you don't want them visiting without it being pre-agreed, that you won't be spending more time with them - you can control your space, but you can't control where they live, and neither can DH.

If living near them is going to be absolute hell for you, you can change where you live.

I do understand that it feels like he's prioritising them over you, and maybe he does in general, but in this case, you can't draw that conclusion. It would only work if he was choosing their house and yours, and put you close together. Looking round houses with your parents is worlds apart from actually having the deciding say in where they live, and he has no right to tell them that he doesn't want them so close - and if he tells them that you don't want them so close, that won't go down well. I think they'd totally ignore it anyway. It might even make them even keener to live near you.

You can set your boundaries and you absolutely should, and make sure that DH knows and respects them, if he can't agree with them - but where they live isn't part of that.

To you, it feels like he's prioritising their feelings over yours. To him, you're making him choose between you and his parents.

If it's possible in any way at all, I'd be seriously considering moving closer to my parents in this situation.

To clarify, the town that is 45 minutes away is well know to be good for retirees, near the ocean, easy access to medical centres and social activities.

The town that is 25 mins away has nothing except it's the closest they can get without moving to our town. It is generally thought of as a rough area. The nice restaurants and shops ar where we are.. The closest medical centre is where we live so there would be a lot of 'we're in town so we'll call in'

They have zero friends, zero hobbies or interests.

I know it seems I'm being petty - it's only 20 min but after talking it through with DH and deciding on being positive and having boundaries about the 45 min town - none of what I said or how I feel has been considered, there are so many reasons the 25 min town will be a problem.

If I let this go and even if boundaries are enforced they'll keep pushing, it'll ruin us - I'm almost certain.

In my head, if this happens, I'm preparing to leave DH because I know it'll only be a matter of time before the norm is 'but I want them here every Sunday, I am taking your feelings into account but you have to take mine too' then 'but I want my mom to have a key'.

I should never have moved to his country

Hague convention wouldn't let me move back near my family without his permission

Ugh. If they have no friends or hobbies I'd be worried that their hobby will become your family!

At this point all you can do is have that frank talk with him and suggest marital counseling if he just will not see your side. Again, you can't tell your iLs where to live, but you can expect your DH to provide a buffer for you. I was very lucky with my iLs, they were lovely, but I know that if they hadn't been that my DH would have made me his first priority.

Honestly, if you truly feel that your DH will not have your back on this then I suspect you probably better be making an 'exit plan'. Not that you'll ever actually need to put it into effect, just that it can be reassuring to know what you will do if 'the worst' happens. Sort of like having an earthquake preparedness kit (I'm in Calif). You don't know if it'll ever happen but just in case, you're prepared. You mention the Hague Convention. See a specialist solicitor to get an understanding of exactly where you stand. Find out about what you can expect in a divorce. Do you work or can you work where you are? What, if any, are the benefits you might be entitled to? What would be your legal standing if you were to leave him?

I don't mean to make it sound as if things won't work out, but knowledge is power.

Thank you acrossthepond I think this is where I'm at.

I'll prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

My maternity leave has just finished and we had decided that I would stay off work for another year or so, I might have a think about that.

All I want is for him to speak to them and put us first, if they move there anyway I won't hold him responsible.

If they move there his life will be a lot tougher as I've always been q buffer between them but I will be withdrawing a lot

Him speaking to them is the problem, though. He doesn't have the right to tell them where to live. If he suggests that they live 45 minutes away because, as a family until, you don't want them closer, that will cause offence. He has no say in that decision.

I don't have parents, I feel most of the time I'm quite lax about them. In this case, though, even I wouldn't suggest to my parents that I didn't want them moving closer. It's mean. It's not something you have a say in so it's just a statement to upset them, and toxic people are excellent at making sure everyone knows that they have been upset, even if it's for a rational reason.

You've also got the challenge that DH is never going to do it because he's still caught up in the cycle of wanting to be the favourite and be in the good books and he won't spoil that by risking upsetting them. He's made that clear.

If it's over for you if they move closer, I'd make a get out plan now. It sounds like they will, and they'll have a bigger impact on your life. Whilst I think you're being unreasonable in asking DH to tell them you don't want them closer, you're not unreasonable to want him to show some loyalty to you - if you genuinely believe his is with his parents, you can't trust him.

Acrosss list of questions to ask the solicitor is brilliant.

I'm not trying to be contrary here but is it really mean to say "listen guys, the first town you chose would suit us all better" list the other features of the town too.

I can't get my head around it, my parents would never, ever do anything that would impact is without talking to us first. Maybe that's why I have such difficulty here - my parents have never even suggested we're responsible for their happiness.

My head is fried, just coming through PND too (sorry if that's a drip feed)

DH still barely talking to me though he is helping with the kids.

I feel like I don't matter at all

It's not that it's mean exactly, it's just that there's no way of dressing it up so it's not completely obvious that you don't want them that close. If they were reasonable people who understood boundaries it wouldn't be so bad but they patently don't so it is likely to cause offence, hence your DH's unwillingness to say it to them. Would he go for the idea of pointing out that the 20 minute town is rough and has no amenities rather than telling them straight out that it's too close to you?

Ok, sorry my last post was so self pitying.

You've all convinced me (just) its unreasonable to tell them where to live.

If they move down, is it unreasonable to ask my husband to stick to these boundaries:

They don't get a key.
They knock on the door, don't just walk into our house.
Visits have to be pre arranged.
They come over only when he's here.
Every holiday and public holiday is not spent with them.
He has responsibility for the relationship with them, deals with Christmas, bday, Mother's Day presents, telling them about sports events etc.
Most visits will be him going to theirs with the boys or us meeting them for lunch for a few hours.
He will ask me before agreeing to any big requests they make and accept if I say no.
They don't treat our house like a second home.

Does your DH realise that this is actually a threat to your marriage, Red? Not to sink to your ILs level or anything, but if he did realise this is a complete dealbreaker for you, it might well present itself in his mind as an ultimatum. I'm sure there have been plenty of them in his past, as they are a classic part of the manipulator's repertoire, and I bet he is susceptible to their power. If you genuinely feel this strongly, I think you have nothing to lose by making sure he knows it. (Except that I have no understanding of the Hague Convention/residency issues and whether he has any say in where you can live such that you might not want to forewarn him of your intentions - if that makes sense.)

I don't think your boundaries are unreasonable at all. Do you think he'll abide by them?

I agree with MrsLupo though, you do not want DH to have any knowledge of your 'exit plan'. Do not reveal them to him. Do not threaten or attempt to coerce him with them. Never issue or threaten an ultimatum that you are not absolutely prepared to carry out. And an 'exit plan' is something that is normally done quietly and without warning.

If you feel you need consequences to your boundaries, I'd suggest more in the lines of absenting yourself and the children when he invites or OKs a visit by his parents without your knowledge, him being faced with no gift/meal/whatever for them if he expects you to do it, you will personally have the locks changed if he gives them a key etc.

MrsLupo I've told him in the strongest possible terms but I haven't put it in terms of an ultimatum.

What I want now is an acknowledgement them moving to the 25 min town will be difficult for us even if he doesn't say anything to them and a promise that the above boundaries will be stuck to no matter which town they choose. Hopefully we can go to counselling where he can see my point of view

It's 3 weeks before they come and stay then I'm presuming about 3 months to sell theirs and buy then 3 months before they trample our boundaries - if DH doesn't step up then I'll have had 6 months to prepare.

Wait! Are they going to be living with you during this interim period?!?

They are rude an inconsiderate. No doubt about that.

But YABU telling your in laws where to live. 20 and 45 minutes isnt a huge amount of time either way. Id drive both without even thinking about it.

Set some ground rules. If your DH or they agree to them and then go against them, then YANBU.

But you cant be one of these people who expects to come first. Its your DHs parents. If he has a close relationship with them he is going to want to be a part of their lives.

Look at this way- it will now be a lot easier for your DH to go and see them for a couple of hours alone then you having to go and stay and vice versa. If they live 20 mins away- when they come for Xmas, there wont be need for them to stay over for example.

Your boundaries are perfectly reasonable OP. Fight your corner. Good luck.

No, they're going to rent - they say! But I wouldn't be surprised if they asked, I've said it to DH and he's said they wouldn't be so blind as to ask but it'll be something like 'oh we can't find a suitable place can we stay for 2/3 weeks....house not ready yet it'll be another 2 weeks'

I've said no way are they staying and he's said ok