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Original poster

Sinister BIL

123 replies

Charone · 29/03/2016 07:51

DM called me last night. She'd just got back from a visit to Dsis and it hadn't gone that well.

The problem is BIL. It is never comfortable in his company. When any of us visit, he stands at the doorway of whichever room we are in, leaning against the wall and glaring / scowling / looking thoroughly irritated to have one of us in his company, or worse under his roof.
He behaves slightly better when Dsis is in the room, but when she isn't, he gets worse. This time what happened was he refused to allow DM to have any food when everyone was gathered at the table for dinner. He just wouldn't serve her, even though he served everyone else (the children and himself) and he placed all the dishes out her reach. Without describing it all blow by blow, he basically went out of his way to humiliate DM in front of her grandchildren.
What is bothering me is that this isn't the first story like this DM has told me. She has felt intimidated by him before (e.g. the worst time was when he pushed his face up against hers and snarled at her).
I completely believe her.

It puts us off visiting Dsis. I haven't been in her home for three years, so i haven't seen her children in all that time (and she has seen mine). Every time, i think it would be nice to see her, I picture being in BIL's company for days (even 10 minutes is uncomfortable) and so I put it off for another six months. (However, I have about 30 years of experiences with him so I do know him).

Since DM called, i've been thinking about why he would behave the way he does. It was clear he wanted to cut Dsis off from her family as soon as they got married and bit, by bit, he's cut the interaction down to just the odd phone call. However, it seems to have stepped up again and I was trying to think why. Then it hit me: DM is getting old and frail. She's a widow. Soon she will need some support. Dsis would be the more obvious candidate to give this. So BIL is making sure DM doesn't want to move nearer to her DD.
That's just my theory.
Anyone?

OP posts:
mix56 · 29/03/2016 09:26

Sounds like EA to me, she is probably completely controlled by him.
If this is happening behind her back she should be told.
What on earth are the children experiencing?

Original poster
Charone · 29/03/2016 09:56

The more I think about it, the less it seems possible that everything is alright behind closed doors.
What if Dsis isn't ready to hear it?

OP posts:
FrancesNiadova · 29/03/2016 10:18

I'd step up my visits & call him out on his bad behaviour every time,
"Why are you standing in the doorway looking cross like that? Come and sit down and join in the conversation." [Sweet smile]
He sounds very EA from what you've described. I wouldn't let your Mum go on her own again, go frequently, in numbers.

Original poster
Charone · 29/03/2016 12:05

Dsis and I live several hundreds of miles apart. Its what has made it easy to drift away without noticing.

She suggested a family get together a few months ago. I was happy to do it but then I discovered that her Dh would be going and I backed off quickly. No one knows how to tell her that we really don't like her DH.

I did ask her once why he behaved as he did and she said he just wanted her all to himself so he minded when she spent time with us. She said she found it flattering. TBH the way she said it made it clear that she knew he disliked being in our company and didn't mind showing it, and I was hurt that she focused on the flattery rather than the bad manners.

Its all put me off my sister a bit. We had a good relationship growing up together but we've been adults for the majority of our lives now and he's been with her since she was a teenager, so until now, the fact that she appears to overlook, or sometimes even approve of his behaviour has just made me not that warm to her and its been easy to focus on my own life and family.

Hope I am not rambling or drip feeding. Its hard to sum up 30 years in an OP.

OP posts:
BarbarianMum · 29/03/2016 12:05

OP it is really, really clear (to an outsider) that your BiL is abusive to his family and is trying to isolate them. Please talk to your sister and, if that gets you nowhere right now (she may well deny it), leave the lines of communication open for the future.

mix56 · 29/03/2016 12:18

Can you try & invite her for a w/e, go shopping, get her on her own.
Tell her what happened with yr mum, try & discover if she is OK.
I doesn't sound as if the kids are. She may deny there is any AE, but the needs to know what goes on when her back is turned

Mishaps · 29/03/2016 12:22

He sounds like a truly nasty bully. Are you able to hold a conversation with your sister about this or is your fear of alienating her too strong? She and the children may be having a dreadful time. She does not sound as though she is able to stand up to him.

Original poster
Charone · 29/03/2016 12:25

Sister tells stories about what BIL did (when he uses people) and she is laughing! "What a cheek he has!" or "I can't believe he had the brass neck to do this". She's telling the stories with a shake of her head, but she's smiling like its a good thing.

???? I just don't understand.

OP posts:
Original poster
Charone · 29/03/2016 12:29

I think my sister will accuse me of exaggerating. Or interfering. Or twisting things. She'll go cold with me and end the conversation with some words that will make it sound like I have the problem.

I just can't imagine her opening up to me.

To be honest, i find it hard to warm to her children too. They remind me of their father. They are not warm or open. I think I am being unfair there given the thoughts that I've started to have since yesterday. There could be a whole other explanation.

OP posts:
candykane25 · 29/03/2016 12:41

I understand stand OP.
I have a family member who is very umpleasant to be around.
He's worse when his wife isn't there to witness it.
We do say things to the wife as much of the behaviour is unacceptable. We also say it direct to the unpleasant person.
The wife is also a strong person
She definitely doesn't see all of his bad behaviour but she's not stupid. She knows what he is like.
She says it's her husband and to stop calling him.
She defends his appalling behaviour.
The upshot is that I have distanced myself from them both.
There's no way your DM could live with them.
In the meantime u would suggest no pretence. Be honest and state the facts as you perceive it.
You don't visit because BIL makes you feel unwelcome.
Your DM also feels intimidated and unwelcome.
You can't control his behaviour and he won't change.
You can change how you and your mother deal with it.

I would plan ahead for your mum so she's never in that position where living with them is considered.

I bet he wouldn't treat her like this if she had a spouse in the room with her. Cunt.

Original poster
Charone · 29/03/2016 12:44

He treats his own parents quite badly too. Except they adore him. I don't get that at all.

OP posts:
PennyHasNoSurname · 29/03/2016 12:51

His kids are displaying learned behaviour - well, three years ago now. You have no idea what they are like now because you admit youve not seen them for three years.

Stop punishing your neices and nephews (and sister!) Because BIL is a prick. Its cowardice.

KatharinaRosalie · 29/03/2016 12:51

Isolating because 'he just wanted her all to himself' and stories of bad behaviour are such classic abuser traits. I wonder if your sister would find anything else familiar here www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/IdentifyingLosers.html

candykane25 · 29/03/2016 13:04

Those saying that the SIs is isolated, well it's not always like that.
Sometimes the spouse is fine with their husband behaviour. They are just as responsible for accepting and allowing it.
I would never put up with my DH treating others this way.
I am not saying that there are not abusive cases, I know there are many. But it's not ALL abusive cases. He's possibly lovely to his wife as they are allies, but shit to others.
The spouse may have the same value system as their husband.
It is bewildering but all you can do is not put up with it and leave them to it.
OP, as for your your BILs parents adoring him, well, he learnt his tricks somewhere didn't he? They probably admire him.

ThatsNotMyRabbit · 29/03/2016 13:11

I agree with whoever said keep visiting and pick him up every time he's weird. But in a jokey/PA way.

"Blimey Bill! That's a dinner plate not a frisbee!!"

"Why are you standing in the doorway instead of sitting with us? Piles playing you up?"

Etc. Oh I'd have a BALL 😄

candykane25 · 29/03/2016 13:14

And I agree with Frances , draw attention to his behaviour, not ignore it. Not to try and change it, but to to show you are not playing along.
The unpleasant member in our family, I repeat loudly what he says, loudly commentating on his actions and smile broadly so he can't say I'm being mean. He's fully aware of what my opinion is of him as I have told him directly. It doesn't bother him because he thinks it's my problem - neither him or his wife have any self-awareness. They just think they are right and it's the rest of the world who are wrong. It's the two of them against the world and the rest of us are all stupid. It's very arrogant.
Which is fine with me if that's what they want to do, but I don't go along with it.

Original poster
Charone · 29/03/2016 15:20

candykane25 - I think that's it. If Dsis is being abused, then she hides it extremely well. She's never given me as much as hint.

However, she must know there is something up. e.g. when she sat down at the table, she must've noticed the silence and Mum's head bowed.

OP posts:
Duckdeamon · 29/03/2016 15:24

Poor DC.

Duckdeamon · 29/03/2016 15:24

Your DM had best make plans not to depend on your sister or her husband for support or care.

ImperialBlether · 29/03/2016 15:31

She sounds as horrible as he does, to be honest.

Are you saying he tipped your mum's hot dinner onto the table cloth? And she had to scoop that up? And your sister came in in the middle of it and didn't say a word? Did your mother then eat that food?

Original poster
Charone · 29/03/2016 15:38

I know you are right, Duckdeamon. TBH she wasn't anyway. She discounted living near Dsis about 18 months ago but the decision about what she will do (rather than what she won't do) has been shelved.

I don't think BIL knows this though as i am not sure DM has told Dsis. Or if he does, he just feels like being nastier than usual anyway.

She won't want to come live near me/ with me. TBH I don't have room so we'd have to move but that's not the end of the world. Maybe she will change her mind when her needs grow. At the moment, she wants to stay where she is but I can't see how that is going to work.

DM has been avoiding going to visit Dsis but it was getting obvious and Dsis was beginning to ask why. DM ran out of excuses and agreed a visit which went really well because BIL was away that weekend. So, she agreed another one a few months later, and it went fine too, until BIL changed his plans half way through and came home early and was very childish about having DM in the house for 36 hours. That was about six months ago. Then this latest visit with the dinner.

The odd thing is sometime in 2014, Dsis suddenly, without any warning, turned on mum one day and accused her of not liking BIL. They hadn't even been talking about him or anything related to him. it just came out of the blue like she'd been thinking about it. Dsis was really angry (mum tells me). That was mum's chance to describe some of what had been going on until then (like the aggressive pushing his face up into hers and hissing at her) but she was caught off guard and she just lied that there was no problem.

OP posts:
Original poster
Charone · 29/03/2016 15:39

Yes, Mum ate it in silence with her head down not wanting to look at anyone.

OP posts:
HopIt · 29/03/2016 15:45

I have a feeling your sister knew exactly what had happened. If I came in to that, I'd grab another plate and say "oh you can't eat that". Dish up a new one / sort her something else out.
"You sit down whilst I clear it up"

Having been your sister, high earner, strong woman. Totally emotionally abused, spent my life on egg shells. She will be defensive when you say something, let her know your there whenever she and the kids need you. A good thing to ask her is if you think it's ok for her kids to go onto be in that same relationship.

Original poster
Charone · 29/03/2016 15:48

If I was your sister, HopIt, how would you have wanted me to broach it so that I get a message across without making you say that the only problem is inside my head?

OP posts:
MarianneSolong · 29/03/2016 16:07

I come from a family where there was a dysfunctional unpleasant man whose behaviour was normalised by his wife and children. The wife would always make excuses for her husband or say that she couldn't talk about it and/or that any time I drew her attention to unacceptable behaviour that it was me who was the problem.

If I was in the OP's shoes I'd just not go and visit that house, but say that your sister was welcome to visit you and/or that the two of you could meet elsewhere. Just keep saying, 'I'd prefer to meet in town.' 'I won't come over, but you're welcome to visit me.' If pressed, just say it's not something you are willing to discuss.