Sinister BIL

[Charone]

DM called me last night. She'd just got back from a visit to Dsis and it hadn't gone that well.
The problem is BIL. It is never comfortable in his company. When any of us visit, he stands at the doorway of whichever room we are in, leaning against the wall and glaring / scowling / looking thoroughly irritated to have one of us in his company, or worse under his roof.
He behaves slightly better when Dsis is in the room, but when she isn't, he gets worse. This time what happened was he refused to allow DM to have any food when everyone was gathered at the table for dinner. He just wouldn't serve her, even though he served everyone else (the children and himself) and he placed all the dishes out her reach. Without describing it all blow by blow, he basically went out of his way to humiliate DM in front of her grandchildren.
What is bothering me is that this isn't the first story like this DM has told me. She has felt intimidated by him before (e.g. the worst time was when he pushed his face up against hers and snarled at her).
I completely believe her.

It puts us off visiting Dsis. I haven't been in her home for three years, so i haven't seen her children in all that time (and she has seen mine). Every time, i think it would be nice to see her, I picture being in BIL's company for days (even 10 minutes is uncomfortable) and so I put it off for another six months. (However, I have about 30 years of experiences with him so I do know him).

Since DM called, i've been thinking about why he would behave the way he does. It was clear he wanted to cut Dsis off from her family as soon as they got married and bit, by bit, he's cut the interaction down to just the odd phone call. However, it seems to have stepped up again and I was trying to think why. Then it hit me: DM is getting old and frail. She's a widow. Soon she will need some support. Dsis would be the more obvious candidate to give this. So BIL is making sure DM doesn't want to move nearer to her DD.
That's just my theory.
Anyone?

[cakeycakeface]

OP. That's really really horrible. Your poor mum. I wouldn't want my mum going there if that's what he was doing. Pity you can't get a hidden camera to capture it then confront your DSIS with it later.

[Iflyaway]

Yes, your poor mum.

Also, your poor sister and those kids.

Seeing as your sister has been with him since being a teenager, he has "programmed" her so thoroughly that she doesn't know which way is up anymore.....

[candykane25]

The thing is, in my case, not the OPs, the wife of my unpleasant member of the family does know done truly awful things he has done.
She defends him, makes it everyone else's fault, asks us how long we are going to keep it up for. He never apologises or makes amend but we are not allowed to bring these incidents up or refer to them. If we do we are dragging up the past.
So even if incidents were filmed, it would be the filmer at fault for causing trouble.
I'm sure the OPs dsis could piece together the gist of what happened at the table. She chose to turn a blind eye. Everyone is supposed to make allowances probably, it's just BUL being BIL.
If the spouse is the accomplice, their is not a lot to be done, except avoid.

[sunshinesummer]

I would be absolutely RAGING if someone threw dinner at my Mum. Why aren't you more angry?

The way your DM behaved (hanging head), makes me wonder whether all 3 of you are passive or have suffered DV in the past. My DM would have given him a slap! And so would I.

You are now pondering at a distance, whether to talk to your Sister.

You haven't seen your neices and nephews for THREE years, because of this nasty man.

In the nicest way possible, I think you really need to grow a pair. I think your Dsis and her children are probably being abused in some way, shape or form. The real question is, when the chips are down, what are you going to do? Keep pondering and musing or actually do something.

That little shit of a man would be getting a big piece of my mind.

[Owllady]

I'd be furious if someone threw dinner at my elderly mother too how fucking dare he?
Sounds very EA and they all sound conditioned by him. I was by my dad too, it's honestly awful. I adored him :( even 14 NC I'm still confused as to how I could have Bern so blind to what was happening. My mum us still rather naive to it in an historical context but she did at least have the strength to get rid of him

[ThatsNotMyRabbit]

I'm upset by the image of your DM sitting there quietly, head down, eating a dinner that had been thrown at her. And I don't know her.

I would go fucking NUCLEAR if it were mine. How DARE he? And nobody spoke up? 😡

[blindsider]

I would ring up DSis and tell her to ask your mother why her food was on the table? Your BiL sounds properly unhinged.

[Duckdeamon]

I doubt OP or her mum confronting BiL would be helpful. It might be safest to assume he's abusive and seek to build relationships independently with the sister - and her DC if that's possible (it might well not be given that there is virtually no contact at present). If thr sister won't meet her Mum or sister alone this might be best done by phone or email.

[MarianneSolong]

I think people who say, 'Why did no one speak up?' are probably fortunate not to have experienced abusive behaviour.

It's something about the way it escalates and the way people are - gradually -conditioned to it.

There's also a sense of shock and disbelief. (Did that really happen? Was I imagining it? Surely it didn't happen? Of it it did, there must be a reason - something that I did?)

It is particularly difficult to confront such behaviour when it takes place in the perpetrator is in their own home. (How often do people on Mumsnet say 'My house. My rules'? This is an extreme example.)

Aggressive behaviour is scary. We are conditioned to do whatever is necessary to survive. This may mean a kind of inner shutting down. Rather than behave in a way that may escalate aggression.

So I don't think it helps particularly to blame those who have witnessed this behaviour and/or know about it.

It's a tough one. Rather like knowing somebody who is a victim of Domestic Violence but who does not yet feel able to leave the person who abuses them. Saying 'Leave the bastard right now' may not help. Saying, 'I am here for you when you need me' may be more helpful.

[iklboo]

Nobody knew I was being abused until ex-p left & I finally admitted it. I was seen as a 'really strong woman', 'taking no crap off anyone'. Except when the front door closed. Most people - DH included - still don't know the full story.

[Charone]

DM was abused in childhood. It was a very long time ago (obviously) but the feeling of it being your fault never leaves you. Well at least not without massive amounts of therapy and its getting a bit late for opening those old wounds now.

So, the head down things sounds normal to me. Its what I am used to with her.

I can't build a relationship with my sister away from her. It takes almost a full day to travel to each other's homes (quicker if we fly). But its not as if I can meet her in town for an hour. Visits get organised in advance and usually last 2 or 3 days, otherwise its not worth the journey.

If it was me that BIL had done it to, I'd have left the food exactly where it landed, gone to my sister and told her exactly why I was going out for dinner in town and would probably book into a hotel that night. But I'm not my mum and I have other options. I am not old and desperate not to alienate one of my children.

I wasn't so much angry as just felt a bit sick when DM described what happened. I wanted to call Dsis and tell her. DM was adamant that I mustn't. Its her story to tell and her decision whether to risk asking Dsis to choose sides. All I did was go away and think about it and then start assembling all the pieces I know about BIL in my mind, trying to puzzle out what the hell is going on and therefore what to do about it.
Hence my OP this morning.

[HazelBite]

I have a very unpleasant BIL, my sister is a extremely lazy person and BIL runs, organises everything, pays for everything and she goes along with his appalling behaviour because its easier for her and it suits her. Over the 35 years they have been married she has become completely like him, has no real opinions of her own and just parrots what he says. She is quite happy.
They have fallen out with everyone in the extended family, they have used people, and my nephews know none of their cousins, its very sad but inevitable.
My sister would never have him criticised, or a word said against the man who gives her a comfortable life. (She is intelligent , has a degree etc)

I would think OP that your sister is happy the way she is, and probably would not have a word said against her DH. He is probably capable (as is my dreadful BIL) of convincing her that your DM and the rest of his wife's family are sheer poison.

I don't think there is any solution OP I think you can only look after your DM, I don't think your dsis will take on board anything you say, 35 years of watching my sister and BIL tell me that.
(Incidentally my BIL's parents adored the turd)

[MarianneSolong]

I am sorry. It sounds as though there is not a very great deal you can do, other than watch and wait. How does your mother see the future in terms of contact with a) you and b) your sister?

[candykane25]

I agree with PPs that you need to protect your mum. A simple, matter of fact telephone call with your sister to say what BIL did, that in future your mum will only see her separately from BIL, and that she is welcome at yours without BIL.
Or, if DM does want to visit, she won't be visiting alone. I think you need to go with her, or some else. Strength in numbers.
I know your DM doesn't want you to cause a fuss but you need to explain how upsetting this is, for you, as well as her. Her other daughter isn't protecting her.
BIL is taking advantage of her childhood abuse and widowhood. Again, Cunt.

[OneLove10]

Your poor mum. Your sister sounds absolutely pathetic even more so than your bil as she giggles away at his antics and probably knows what he is doing. How has she never noticed him standing in the doorway at all? She's disgusting for allowing her mum to be treated like that. Your mum should cut down on visits to them. Nasty pair.

[Charone]

Are we the same person, Hazelbite?!

I spoke to DM again. What she is saying is that it will be alright. She can still visit her DD and she'll just make sure to avoid BIL when she can, especially when he is in a bad mood (DM reckons that she can tell and that this is when he is most likely to kick off).

I know, I know... sigh.

We talked at length about what happened exactly and the only possible conclusion is that Dsis saw (what happened with the food) and did nothing.

DM is saying to me that if I don't like how BIL is, then I should feel free to cut them out of my life but she loves Dsis and her grandchildren and she's going to keep visiting but if BIL ever hits her then she'll not stay quiet.

We both agreed that BIL wants to isolate Dsis. Dm is convinced that he won't succeed as she's too strong a person. I say that he's abusive and controlling whilst DM insists that he's badly brought up - she thinks his behaviour is just a question of manners.

Basically, I spent the best part of an hour bashing my head against a brick wall trying to persuade DM to let me or DB speak to our sister about the most recent incident and what is going on. There is no way i will be able to do it without alienating mum. God, DM is stubborn!

[Charone]

And DM tells me (as though its a deep insight) that BIL behaves badly because he wants to stop her seeing Dsis.

I just can't get her to wake up and see that what she is saying is not only true but awful.

[Charone]

And DM tells me (as though its a deep insight) that BIL behaves badly because he wants to stop her seeing Dsis.

I just can't get her to wake up and see that what she is saying is not only true but awful.

[Chocolatteaddict1]

Your poor mum. Of course your mum wants it to stay quiet. Abuse victims are used to not making a fuss.

She sounds like she has been through a lot and your sisters cunt of a husband is doing the same. Your sister should be ashamed of herself.

[britmodgirl]

It's this sort of shit that makes me want to form some sort of feminist ninja vigilante swat team.
Nanna abuse pisses me right off.
Acting the big man - prick

[springydaffs]

You got it in one when you said he's a sociopath. But your sister seems to get off on it?

ime of being an abusive relationship, I was completely under his spell. However, after about 5 years I started losing the plot/my mind. Took another 5 years to work out why. Then another 3 to eventually ltb.

What concerns me most are the kids. BIL has his agenda, dsis has hers, but the kids? They're innocent. I used to wish my H would hit me so I had something to go on - I can't help hoping the same in this situation. Those poor, poor kids.

I hope you are now disabused of the notion that 'strong' women don't end up in abusive relationships. There does, however, appear to be a very weird dymamic going on between them.

You can't tell if your dm flatly refuses to allow you to.

So what can you do? I'd say nothing - but for the kids. Those poor kids.

[springydaffs]

But as all is lost anyway (after 30 years) I'd risk blowing the whole thing out in the open. Get yourself genned up first eg read up on all and every available info on 'domestic abuse'/coercive control (Lundy Bancroft is your man) so you're on sure footing - then let her have it, undiluted, straight out. What have you got to lose?

She knew what H had done op. That is sick.

btw you casually mention dsis is your mum's 'favourite'. That is a big deal.

[TheBouquets]

I am outraged. Your DM feels she has to stay quiet and put up with the abusive SIL in order to keep her daughter in contact. Why, apart from age and related worries, would anyone want to keep in contact with the daughter who allows her DM to be treated like this.
I am not sure of the situation but does the DM stay over at the house with this so called daughter and son in law? Or is that just you? Either way, I would rather camp in a tent in the local park than stay in that house! And I don't do camping or even glamping!
It has happened before and I hope your DM gets up the courage or even the temper to read this SIL his character and tell the daughter she has a choice to make but the rest of us are off!
The silence of the whole family is why this bully gets away with it.
If you can do nothing else and the DM is strapped for cash pay for her to stay in a B&B or somewhere other than that house.

[TheBouquets]

What Springydaffs said too with both barrels. That bully needs told

[Friendlystories]

DM would be my priority here, any one of the theories explored on this thread could be true with regard to Dsis and the reality of her relationship with BIL so, other than trying to maintain some kind of contact with her so she knows she has someone in her corner should she ever decide she needs it, I'm not sure what else you can do for her. My strategy would be to accompany DM on any visits to Dsis and ensure she is never alone with BIL, unpalatable though spending any time with him may be. If he dared to behave badly towards DM in front of you I would focus on protecting her rather than necessarily directly attacking him and make it clear, preferably where Dsis can see and hear you, that you will not stand for DM being disrespected or threatened. He sounds like a classic bully and my aim would be to show him she has back up and protection and that you will not allow her to be bullied by him.