Sexually frustrated Husband

[Brightling]

It seems I'm married to one of those men who gets very moody when their intimacy needs aren't being met as often as they would like.

We've been married a significant amount of time. When we first met my sex drive was average and a few years and very young children later it's pretty much dwindled. I'm all touched out by the children. I am very unhappy with my post multiple pregnancies body. I'm tired. All I want is to be able to go to bed and sleep without being propositioned. It's not every night but it happens frequently enough for it to be considered badgering. Actually what I would like also is for the "no I'm not up for it tonight" to be received with "ok let's sleep" rather than him raise his voice tell my I've got a problem, I need to see a therapist, I should stay off those websites (such as MN) and what's he supposed to do about HIS sexual needs as it sounds like he's supposed to have an affair if I'm not interested. He says he can't even cuddle me if I've said no as he finds it too difficult. Whenever I say none turns his back on me and I feel like I'm being punished for saying No.

I get that he is frustrated but I am not prepared to lay back and think of England. Sex is a privilege not a right. It's my body and if I don't want to I don't have to. Even though he says that he doesn't want me to do it for the sake of it I think he's BS'ing me. He tells me he's a nice person, a good partner, a good dad and that other couples are all having sex though he always refers to sex as making love.

When we are having an active sex life he is ridiculously happy and helpful and affectionate.

I can't stand the sulking behaviour when he's frustrated. He is a hands on father and he does pull his weight round the home. It's just the sex pressure pushing me away. It's getting to the point where I don't want to be intimate with him at all as any contact he sees as a green light to progress a cuddle or whatever is then met with a sulk when I say I don't want to continue.

He does make lots of effort making meals but I'm so cynical that All I can think about is that there is an expectancy at the end of the night which puts me on the defensive and then I end up causing an argument simply to avoid the strop that he will pull when I say I don't want to be intimate because it's only when I get cross about it that he will let it drop and quit going on and on and on about it.

I'm know my sex drive isn't what it was but the sulks and date nights are not helping one bit. I dread any meal or date night. I'm not even sure why I'm even posting.

All those suggesting the OP visit the GP are implying that there's probably something "wrong" with her. Is it not entirely possible that she is exhausted exactly for the reasons she says she is? And has anyone considered that biologically, the hormone production of a woman who has enough children to deal with would not be that of a woman who wants to conceive, or is designed to conceive. The whole concept of marriage is flawed when you consider that a woman's sexual needs will naturally fluctuate depending on whether she has reproduced or not where a man's will remain relatively constant, being that men are designed to "spread their seed" whilst women have a limited number of opportunities to reproduce. There is nothing telling the OPs DHs body that he might not want to reproduce right now. This isn't something that needs to be "fixed", its evolution.

NotQuite completely agree. Those words never go away and the damage done is irrevocable. Also been there, its soul-destroying.

squashybanana - thinking 'meh, I'm knackered, but I know I'll enjoy it when I get into it' is a world apart from 'fuck, he's threatened to leave/have an affair if I don't have sex'. You can see the difference, right?

God, if ever evidence were needed for the deeply-entrenched view within our society that men are entitled to sex and free access to women's bodies as if they were nothing more than blow-up dolls, it can be found on this thread.

There really is a deep-seated belief that men's wishes must be paramount in all circumstances, isn't there? Women and their dependent children are just collateral damage in that.

Utterly revolting attitudes from the men on here. Newsflash - marriage is an agreement to spend your life with someone, not to have sex on tap from a frazzled, exhausted, breast-feeding woman. FFS.

Squashy - yes that's what I think too.

The 'taking one for the team' phrase is a bit crass and I wouldn't use it but getting past the words on the screen and the perfect world of MN into real life its clear that both men and women in long and successful marriages will on different days at different times feel more or less enthusiastic about sex than their partner. That doesn't mean they are being coerced if they agree to sex in a 'well I'm not averse to the idea so OK lets do it' sort of way if the other partner wants to and then they find they still enjoy it.

Under the greenwood tree yes I can see the difference. All I am saying is that these posters who are claiming you should only ever have sex if you are an enthusiastic particpant, otherwise you must never compromise and your partner should only ever accept this will equanimity will probably find that that is not how a long-term marriage works. There will almost inevitably be some sexual compromise. And that is OK, because you have signed up to be a partnership, a team, so you need to a certain extent to look after that team. It doesn't mean you should feel bullied or coerced as I have said elsewhere in the thread, BOTH parties need to compromise and be kind to each other.

squashy, thinking, meh, I'll enjoy it when I get into it, is being an enthusiastic participant in my book. You're doing something that you'll anticipate you'll enjoy.

Being bullied into it by sulks, moodiness or threats to have an affair - is not.

A lot of the language used isn't helpful either. It isn't 'withholding' sex if you don't want sex. That implies sex is something that a woman gives to a man rather than being shared. It makes it seem like a deliberate choice not to want sex, which we know is not the case. And if you are withholding something it is often a retaliative measure (e.g. we withhold work done for a client until they have paid us).

Squashy, you are not the only one here in a long term marriage

I have never been manoeuvred into having sex I wasn't an enthusiastic participant in

Use your own example if you wish but don't expect anyone else to be signed up to the idea that it's OK to persuade yourself to have sex that you do not want

Yes, Squashy, the scenario you describe is not the same as the OP, where she is being constantly harassed and threatened for sex. That is wholesale trampling over her boundaries at a time in her life where she is actually quite vulnerable - she has a breastfeeding baby for one.

I agree with PP.
Saying 'I know I will be into it when I get going' is a world apart from 'I don't want sex, I don't want to be touched and actually when we do have sex, it's unconfortable because I'm not aroused'.

I also agree that you are not the only one in a LT relationship. And yes I agree that compromise has to be found, even when it comes to sex and intimacy. I actually think it's always ongoing progress.

Threatening your partner to have sex is a complete different ball park.
Giving and having sex when you don't want to, up to the point it's making you sick and you hate being in the same bed than said partner is not the same thing.
Compare to what I have lived, what you are describing IS enthusiastic consent (and even if compare to your early days when you both wanted sex all the time, it probably doesn't. It's all relative isn't it?)

Op one thing this thread has probably shown you is that some people genuinely believe a partner should have sex when they don't want to.

What you need to do is find out if this is what your husband thinks. Ask him outright: do you think I should have sex if I don't want to? And if he says 'well, if you want to make me happy' or 'if you don't want me to have an affair' then you have your answer.

Sadly, if he is in the 'have sex when you don't want to' camp then he is at heart an unkind individual. Despite his humour, his 'good dad' stuff.

If he says 'of course not, I would never want to do it if you don't want to. I just want to know why you don't fancy me' then you can have a discussion about your hormones being different and that this won't be the way forever. That you still fancy him. That he is still loved. But that him trying to coerce you against your will is disgusting you and that he cannot continue to do that as he now knows for sure you don't want to do it yet or as often as he does.

You can't change the way he thinks about this: he is either in the 'have sex even if you don't want to' camp or not. Just like the posters who said you should do it as some sort of wifely duty can't see how horribly invasive that is. Just as they can't see how a good, kind man would never want his woman to be an object that he used for pleasure whilst she felt invaded. How this lack of respect speaks volumes about someone's true view of their partner.

Compromise should not come into it. If one person says 'no I don't want to' any 'compromise' is actually the other person saying 'well we're going to do something'. It's not a compromise. You are either doing sexual activity or you are not. It is either on or off. There is no 'we're in the grey area between sexual activity and no sexual activity'.

Brightling I do something at work that I thought might be helpful for you. If this isn't, please feel free to disregard it :)

So it's about communication. We all know communication is essential in a relationship, esp for issues like this one, but its' also very hard to do so. People often go into an 'aggressive' mode or a 'defensive' mode which makes communication hard. Solving that sort of issue also requires some vulnerability, ie the ability to show yourself with all your fears and your weaknesses and your hurts (which means the other person then has more ammunition to hurt you if they decide to do so).
So the advice was to avoid sentences with YOU in (eg YOU are making me feel bad when YOU are pestering me for sex) and replace then by sentences with I in, plus sharing how you feel about things (eg When I feel pushed into sex when I don't want to, I feel like I'm just a body to fuck, not a real person).
The other idea was to take turn and let the other person say how they feel about the situation and to listen to what they other has to say wo interruption.

Even though we've never done that so rigidly with DH, I found that the 'I sentences' do help him understand what is going on (and the other way around). There has always been some 'defensive' reaction (It's never nice to hear that your behaviour is deeply hurtful) but it has helped a lot clarifying what the issue is for both of us.
I have found that sometimes I have been assuming that DH was doing x and y because xxx and actually I was way off the mark.

Brightling, I am not encouraging you to be bullied into sex. Please don't do that! Just be honest with your husband and yourself. To say "I really don't have 30mins to myself" means you are choosing to spend 100% on other things (children). That is a choice you make. Over 5 weeks, you have chosen the kids can't survive on just 50,370 minutes from you, they really do need all 50,400 minutes and there is not a soul on the planet (like maybe your husband) who could have pitched in to free up those 30 minutes.

You are not "wrong" to make such a choice. But there are consequences of married partners making choices to reprioritize his/her spouse at the bottom. And it's unrealistic to expect the spouse will be pleasant about this change. I keep agreeing with you he must stop with the sulking, but please be honest with him that you are now 100% focused on the kids, he is not worth even 0.04% of your time, so that he can decide if the marriage is compatible.

It is a shame your incompatibility was not know sooner, but you've admitted to a big libido reduction so how could he have known? Better to end an incompatible marriage now, than for either of you to struggle on with increasing anger/resentment.

I suspect your issue isn't really a sexual incompatibility, but is an incompatibility of priorities. Nonetheless, same result.

rickety by experience from the answer 'If you want to make me happy' or 'if you actually DO love me', you need to dig out further.

The answer could easily be that this man is convinced that if you love someone then you will always be up to sex (that idea has been developed on this thread) and therefore can't understand why it's not the case.
The answer could be that being tired is never a possible answer to no sex (because you can' the that tired to not want sex) and that actually what the woman is doing is withholding sex (ie she actually wants it you know rather than saying No) as a weapon for whatever reason.

Of course, it can also easily be the answer from someone who is living in the 1900 and believes their wife should just obey and be happy for sex whenever.

But that sort of answer is also so deeply linked to our society attitude towards women that it can be hard to separate what is a deep ingrained belief and what is just accepted 'as how things are' wo a second thought as to it makes sense or not. DH was very clearly falling into that category and it seems that a lot of men do that as soon as a child comes into play maybe because actually it's a much easier life for them than having to change to adapt to these new circumstances

How many times per year do you initiate sex Brightling? That is absolutely NONE of your business!!

Only when I destabilized things did we make progress. I stopped meeting her needs; made it clear I would not stay faithful in a sexless marriage. This was a sufficiently strong message to snap her out of the selfish fog. That was over 8 years ago. I meet her needs, she meets my needs. We have a decent sexlife, averaging 2x per week. How do you know she is happy with this? Basically what you did was pressurise her into resuming sexual contact before she was ready. That's not really that great, no matter how you word it.

And the I meet her needs, she meets my needs makes it sound like a dull transaction, not a loving mutually enjoyable sex life. But you are obviously happy with that, so why should it bother you how mechanical it sounds??

Magic Mike, your wife doesn't have a decent sex life if she is married to a man who enjoys fucking a coerced woman.

I wonder if Mikey's wife also had young children and a baby when he threatened to have an affair.

marathon I would advise you to actually take a week off and spend that week on your own with young dcs just to experience how it feels.

My DH would have said that sort of stuff until he was forced into the situation where he had to look after our dcs (2 and 4 at the time, so not even as demanding as a baby would be) for several weekends.
He changed his tune within 2~3 weekends and his cheerful 'so how was your day?' Coming back from work along side the grumble because there was still ONE toy lying around became a concerned 'How was your day?' Accompanied with him helping to tidy up wo any further comment.

And there lies ONE big answer to the OP's dilemma. That often men/fathers have NO idea of what it means to be at home all day looking after you one dcs. That somehow you can 'choose' the have time on your own because it never happens that your dcs will just wail and scream if you go to the loo with the door closed or this mythical idea that you can a cup of tea and read a magazine whilst the chiildren are happily playing on their own.

You've just shown your colours as a very uninvolved father....

Be careful of his language too. Take a look at some of the 'you should do it' campers. It's full of coersive language/arguments that minimise your needs against his want. If he comes up with these beauties then he fundamentally hinks you should put up against your wishes:
'I'm not bullying you but'
'I'm not forcing you but'
'If you loved me you would'
'You should have told me you would be like this when we married'
'Just let me do a bit...'
'It's like cake; if you try a bit [even if you really hate it] then you might like it. Let me force feed you the cake you don't like.'

All of these have been suggested by those who think women should have sex against their wishes. They've actually helped you see into the minds of people who think sexual activity is a grey area. It's not. You either want it or you don't.

Over 5 weeks, you have chosen the kids can't survive on just 50,370 minutes from you, they really do need all 50,400 minutes and there is not a soul on the planet (like maybe your husband) who could have pitched in to free up those 30 minutes. Have you decided that the op doesn't need to eat, cook, sleep, shower, bathe, make arrangements to see family/friend etc.

Of course her entire week isn't 100% dedicated to the children, but they are of course, likely to be her main focus.

Oh yes, of course, her priorities are all wrong. Because breastfeeding and doing the grunt work of looking after small children 24/7, esp when they don't sleep well, should most certainly be lower on her priority list than servicing her husband's sexual wants on a regular basis.

Men here really do think they are owed sex, don't they?

I think it is important to distinguish between the decision for sex at a micro versus macro level. My wife is completely free to decide against sex at the micro level: on any given day, or week, or let's even say 2 or 3 weeks (extreme case of obvious circumstances). I would agree that it would be bullying if I were to pull out the divorce/cheating card every time she said No at the micro level.

My wife is also free to say no to sex at the macro level.. but THAT is where I call dealbreaker, and we either have an open marriage or we divorce. I do not consider this bullying. This is being honest about ones marital needs.

Childcare is like a gas: it will expand to fill whatever space is made available.
This goes both ways. If you choose to devote 100% of your life to childcare, it will take every second of that, and leave you feeling like you still fell short.
Or, if you partition out 30 minutes per week for exercise, 30 minutes per week for doing absolutely nothing at all, 30 minutes per week for intimacy, the childcare will amazingly fit perfectly into the other 10,050 minutes in the week.

It comes down to the priorities each parent sets.

Rickety thank you. Perfect sense.

Mike believe it or not and you most probably won't but young children don't actually let you have 30minutes to yourself esp when there is more than one of them. Particularly if all of them won't sleep/nap when they are supposed to. Or maybe I should multitask and let DH have his way whilst I change a nappy/feed the baby/clear up the destruction that follows any meal consumed? Seriously you have no idea what it is like being a SAHM to young children. None. I can't even get my ironing done at the moment and you should see the laundry bin. Well I set anyone the trying to see the laundry bin as it buried underneath the laundry. There is that much of it! I haven't had a shower in four days as time hasn't allowed and don't even look at my hair.

As with many LT/marriages the arrival of children does change things. It changes the dynamics a lot. Everything has to change. Children do not fit into your life as you expect. you got round their wants and needs particularly if you don't have family locally to help with any childcare.

I will not be bullied/coerced into sex and when I say that if he decides to leave/have an affair rather than work through it together and focus on improving the relationship for both of us then so be it. I'm not going to make him stay or nor will I "put out" when I don't want to.

The recommendation to see a GP what do you suggest I say? "I find sexual intimacy difficult at the moment as my DH pesters me repeatedly for sex and so I wonder if a blood test will reveal what wonder drug can fix me?"