Sexually frustrated Husband

[Brightling]

It seems I'm married to one of those men who gets very moody when their intimacy needs aren't being met as often as they would like.

We've been married a significant amount of time. When we first met my sex drive was average and a few years and very young children later it's pretty much dwindled. I'm all touched out by the children. I am very unhappy with my post multiple pregnancies body. I'm tired. All I want is to be able to go to bed and sleep without being propositioned. It's not every night but it happens frequently enough for it to be considered badgering. Actually what I would like also is for the "no I'm not up for it tonight" to be received with "ok let's sleep" rather than him raise his voice tell my I've got a problem, I need to see a therapist, I should stay off those websites (such as MN) and what's he supposed to do about HIS sexual needs as it sounds like he's supposed to have an affair if I'm not interested. He says he can't even cuddle me if I've said no as he finds it too difficult. Whenever I say none turns his back on me and I feel like I'm being punished for saying No.

I get that he is frustrated but I am not prepared to lay back and think of England. Sex is a privilege not a right. It's my body and if I don't want to I don't have to. Even though he says that he doesn't want me to do it for the sake of it I think he's BS'ing me. He tells me he's a nice person, a good partner, a good dad and that other couples are all having sex though he always refers to sex as making love.

When we are having an active sex life he is ridiculously happy and helpful and affectionate.

I can't stand the sulking behaviour when he's frustrated. He is a hands on father and he does pull his weight round the home. It's just the sex pressure pushing me away. It's getting to the point where I don't want to be intimate with him at all as any contact he sees as a green light to progress a cuddle or whatever is then met with a sulk when I say I don't want to continue.

He does make lots of effort making meals but I'm so cynical that All I can think about is that there is an expectancy at the end of the night which puts me on the defensive and then I end up causing an argument simply to avoid the strop that he will pull when I say I don't want to be intimate because it's only when I get cross about it that he will let it drop and quit going on and on and on about it.

I'm know my sex drive isn't what it was but the sulks and date nights are not helping one bit. I dread any meal or date night. I'm not even sure why I'm even posting.

Your poor poor wife, marathonmiker. I feel really sad for her.

How absolutely despairing.

I did not bully or cooerce my wife into having sex, no more than Brightling is now bullying her husband into celibacy.

I did however "bully" my wife into making a decision about whether or not she was actually committed to our marriage, rather than her selfishly expecting me to meet all of her needs while she can ignore mine. My wife was free to choose never to have sex with me ever again, knowing that my faithfulness is contingent upon a good-faith effort to actually, you know, have an active sex life.

I never threatened to leave her. I was simply being honest that I could not stay married and faithful in a sexless marriage. Not many people (especially men) would ever make that kind commitment, so this was merely an honest admission, nothing to be ashamed of, nothing I would want to wait around for years to then "discover" that I can't be happy in a sexless marriage.

Does she ever lie back and think of England? Well I doubt that happens any more than I "think of England" while I go along with her in some (non sexual) activity that is important to her that I could easily do without. Why do I do this? Because I love her and if I can make her happy, I will do most anything.
How do I feel if, on rare occasions, my wife is just "taking one for the team" by having sex on a night she would otherwise watch TV? Well, she chooses to do this, to make me happy, with an attitude of love, and I make sure it's a fun experience for us both, so I guess I feel perfectly fine about it. No, more than that: I feel loved.

Since Brightling is only seeking support for withholding sex Where has she said that? Why are you twisting her words?

And why the hell are you addressing the instigator of op's problems, on HER thread? How rude. If he needs advice, he can look for it. Addressing him over op is very rude, and has an attitude of "op isn't listening so therefore I will ignore what she is looking for" Which, ironically, is what her dh is doing, ignoring her needs!!

I feel sick.

'Taking one for the team'.......

It makes you feel loved when a woman has sex with you when she'd rather not, because she knows if you aren't kept serviced you will leave?

There's a name for that.

while I go along with her in some (non sexual) activity that is important to her that I could easily do without

If you cannot see that this is very different from sex which is much more personal and potentially damaging than say, a trip to the garden centre, then you have no idea what you are talking about. Of course you bullied your wife. You told her you would not be faithful unless she put out according to some idea that you had about how often was acceptable in terms of having sex (which sounds like it wasn't the same frequency that your wife wanted).

And Brightling is not bullying her husband into celibacy. Jesus. She is not in a celibate marriage. She is in a marriage where her husband is being very insensitive about the demands and challenges she is facing and has no understanding of how difficult he is making things for her.

I am in a marriage where I am the more highly sexed person, btw, but I would never ever tell my husband that I would fuck someone else if he didn't fuck me because we work on it together and try very hard to come up with mutually agreeable solutions. And I am perfectly able to take care of myself with regard to sexual outlets when my husband isn't up for it.

Mikey. You clearly think that coercing into sex is on a par to a partner refusing sex. It's not. One is a crime, the other is not.

Anyone has every right to leave any relationship for any reason - but bullying her into "meeting your needs" or you'll leave is exactly coercing her.

I don't think I've ever seen a man on MN so readily admit that he's coerced his wife into sex though, so well done there. You readily have sex with her when you know she doesn't want it.

Enthusiastic consent is the only way to go. If she's not fucking you, because she's breastfeeding, post-partum, exhausted with babies and young children - then that's a reason. Be patient. She's not going to fancy you, like, genuinely fancy you, if you're whinging about your needs (or rights ) Women were not put on this planet to service your sexual needs as some sort of fucking marital barter system. That stinks of misogyny - ie. wife is there to serve domestic/sexual needs of a husband.

I just read a few articles on Enthusiastic consent and here is a passage that may interest you (it comes directly under the heading Enthusiastic Consent).

People in a long-term relationship will often have long established occasions where consent can be assumed and the understanding that there will be times that they are willing to be giving for the sake of the person whom they love and want to be happy… even if they’d rather be catching up on Game of Thrones and Facebook. As long as they are able to talk about what they are and aren’t willing to do, establish boundaries, and aren’t pressuring one another to act in a way they aren’t comfortable with, or engage in acts that they would rather not perform, I’d say that this is fine.

I do not have sex when my wife doesn't want to. She can (and does) reject my advances some of the times. And I don't sulk when that happens. I completely respect her agency to decide against sex on any given day, or even a week or more if there is some major stuff going on in our lives. But if she were to be rejecting me for several weeks in a row or a month (like Brightling is doing), and the primary reason is "too tired... not interested.... don't feel like it..." that is a different ballgame entirely. That is when I start to feel unloved. That is when I stop wanting to meet her needs. That is when I start to wonder about long term compatibility. Fortunately, we've not had any major dry spells in nearly a decade.

Exactly what demands and challenges is Brightling facing that does not allow even 30 minutes of intimacy with her husband during the course of 5 weeks? Wow that must be some very important stuff she is doing for 50,400 straight minutes and not even have 30 to spare for her marriage.

Everyone has the ability and the right to dictate what their own sex life is going to be like. If the partner cannot meet their needs then that person can leave. That's the option we have - no coercion, no bullying, no ultimatums, no abuse. Just leave and find someone who is compatible.

You make it sound simple, GraysAnalogy, except people live deeply entangled lives. The effect is more generally either the HL partner staying unhappy in a sexless marriage or the LL partner providing sex reluctantly, with the building resentment that implies. Its that or sacrifice the children they share, the home they share and other aspects of otherwise decent lives together. Many people can be profoundly disadvantaged when one half of a relationship decides they cannot compromise and walks out.

It's interesting how many men have convinced themselves that having to have sex when you don't want to is about as bad as sitting slightly bored outside the changing room of a clothes shop whilst your wife tries on dresses. And if he's prepared to do the latter then she should be prepared to do the former, apparently.

Mikey, you can try to dress it up any way you like, but this:

"I stopped meeting her needs; made it clear I would not stay faithful in a sexless marriage. This was a sufficiently strong message to snap her out of the selfish fog. That was over 8 years ago. I meet her needs, she meets my needs."

is bullying your wife into sex.

marathon - I think people are jumping on our post because you haven't described the intermediate steps between the starting point of you telling your DW you could not live in a sexless marriage and the final outcome which was a resumption of normally frequent sex.

People have filled in the blanks and assume you abuse her.

However, to be fair to you, the entire thread is full of people saying that withdrawal of sex would be a deal breaker for them in the long term so you are not wrong to have told your wife there was an inevitable outcome if it wasn't fixed.

I do also think there is merit in your argument that when you did back off the result was your wife became happier about not being pressured but that only resulted in her sitting back and doing nothing at all to remedy the situation. I am agnostic about your pronouncement that if she didn't do things you like then you in return withdrew in other areas. I think it is inevitable in a marriage that is under severe strain.

Perhaps if you do come back and you feel willing to fill in the blank about the intervening period where you and your wife rebuilt your relationship that would be helpful and instructive.

TYPO: 'on our' = 'on your'

If you could please take into account that even my trips to the bathroom are accompanied throughout the day and with children currently not sleeping due to teething I really don't have 30mins to myself and as I have said before DH works a great deal so we not even in the same room that often.

If I did have 30mins I wouldn't be bullied/coerced/blackmailed into sex.

I am not bullying him into celibacy. I'm asking him to lay off the pressure and constant requests for sex.

Forgive me but I haven't kept a record of how often I initiate. I do know that it's pretty even usually.

Some of the posts and advice are .

Perseus it seems mikey has made it pretty damn clear to his wife what his expectations are. She might be able to turn him down occasionally but she knows she's on the stopwatch then. Better make sure it doesn't go more than a week otherwise she's basically forcing him to go and have sex elsewhere. I love how he makes out he was doing the honourable thing too. Threatening to cheat if he doesn't get his end away. Ha. If you're not happy in a relationship you leave.

I do think it is a difficult thing to judge though. If you're unhappy about something is saying you'll leave if it doesn't change bullying or honest?

From the other side, this is how it looks like marathon situation was.

• DW is exhausted, he doesn't really show any empathy or concern about it (or that he is talking about on this thread). He backs off. DW relieved
• DW has time to feel better. No pressure finally, children are getting older. Even though she might not say so, in 9 months, she starts to get better.
• however, less sex can also lower the libido and even though she does feel better in herself, she doesn't miss sex (also because unlike marathon she hasn't spent her time thinking how much she was missing sex. Strangely (???) her focus was on the dcs!)
• marathon fi ally explains how important things are for him (unfortunately by the way of an ultimatum and using the divorce card) and they have sex. She finds it actually enjoyable again. Things settle down.

Now this is my 'nice' interpretation of things. I can promise you marathon that if your DW is still with you 8 years later, this has NOTHING to do with the fact she finally stopped being selfish and decided to take your needs into account. It's the fact that actually, having stopped pestering, she was much more inclined to actually have sex.
Lying down and thinking of England just leads to resentment and hurt.
Had you waved the divorce stuff a bit earlier (or earlier than she could cope with), you would have had no marriage at all now because YOU would have destroyed it.

I do agree that the 'advice' you gave is the one you can find online. Very much based on a patriarchal view of marriage where women HAVE to satisfy their husband in the 1950 and the idea that men (only men of course) can't live without sex.
It is up to you to decide if you want to be a 1950 misogyny or show some empathy and understanding towards your DW.

No solution can ever be found wo a little bit of understanding on both sides and I will assume that someho

Sorry...
That somehow you have shown some understanding of her issues just as you have hers.
It's just that your post is screaming a total lack of self reflection and understanding of what has actually happened. Which is :(:( because if you do find yourself in that situation again, you will do the same and take a high risk of destroying what you call a happy marriage....,

aire saying you will leave because xx is deal breaker for you isn't bullying IMO.
I have done that with DH. I told him things needed to change because they were intolerable for me (and yes it was ME who threatened divorce over his constant pestering!!).
Sometimes, this is the last resort thing you can do to start change.
What would be bullying is to bring the divorce card again and again and again each time he doesn't sex as often as he wants (eg he hasn't had sex for 3 weeks because his DW has been ill+he was working late+dcs were ill)

Brightling - I think one of the problems we have on the thread is not knowing how long this has been an issue. Is it just a couple of months or been on a downward spiral for several years.

It is clear though from your posts that you are utterly worn out and your marriage is suffering. You and DH I think need to look at every aspect of your lives to see how things can be changed to take the burden of childcare off you. I also reiterate that a trip to the GP is something you should consider. All sorts of health issues can lead to a feeling of overwhelming exhaustion (e.g diabetes, hypothyroid, anaemia, depression, etc).

aire - I agree. Threatening to have an affair after a week would be coercion but as you say. "I do think it is a difficult thing to judge though. If you're unhappy about something is saying you'll leave if it doesn't change bullying or honest?"

To some extent that is the big point of controversy on the thread.

I've been with my partner 26 years. I do not always consent with enthusiasm. Most times I am pretty 'meh' beforehand. However once we get started I enjoy the sex and I know that will be the case. If it were entirely up to me we'd have less sex, but then I know we'd be less close too. I can only assume those of you who feel what marathonmiker rather inelegantly called 'taking one for the team' makes you feel sick either have much higher libidos or have not yet been with your partner for most of your life. I don't believe there are any long term marriages out there where there is not done kind of compromising sexually going on. You don't get to 50 odd, with a bunch of kids, elderly parents etc and still only ever have sex with enthusiastic consent. Unenthusiastic consent is still consent. I don't feel coerced. And unenthusiastic isn't the same as unwilling. I have days where I do not consent. If we only had sex when I was enthused (before we start, I am a willing and happy participant once we get going) it would be very rare indeed, and that would not be good for our intimacy or our marriage.

Bullying in this (these) cases.

It appears there is no shred of empathy for what the OP/wives are experiencing with small children, and the genuine reasons why they need some space, and no allowance given that this is reasonable and normal. I've been where op is, and it's horrific.

As for the 'have sex again or I'll leave/cheat' brigade, I have no words. You have NO ENTITLEMENT to demand this.

And don't forget, those words NEVER go away in her mind. 10 years of coerced sex? If she posted here I know what my advice would be.