Sexually frustrated Husband

[Brightling]

It seems I'm married to one of those men who gets very moody when their intimacy needs aren't being met as often as they would like.

We've been married a significant amount of time. When we first met my sex drive was average and a few years and very young children later it's pretty much dwindled. I'm all touched out by the children. I am very unhappy with my post multiple pregnancies body. I'm tired. All I want is to be able to go to bed and sleep without being propositioned. It's not every night but it happens frequently enough for it to be considered badgering. Actually what I would like also is for the "no I'm not up for it tonight" to be received with "ok let's sleep" rather than him raise his voice tell my I've got a problem, I need to see a therapist, I should stay off those websites (such as MN) and what's he supposed to do about HIS sexual needs as it sounds like he's supposed to have an affair if I'm not interested. He says he can't even cuddle me if I've said no as he finds it too difficult. Whenever I say none turns his back on me and I feel like I'm being punished for saying No.

I get that he is frustrated but I am not prepared to lay back and think of England. Sex is a privilege not a right. It's my body and if I don't want to I don't have to. Even though he says that he doesn't want me to do it for the sake of it I think he's BS'ing me. He tells me he's a nice person, a good partner, a good dad and that other couples are all having sex though he always refers to sex as making love.

When we are having an active sex life he is ridiculously happy and helpful and affectionate.

I can't stand the sulking behaviour when he's frustrated. He is a hands on father and he does pull his weight round the home. It's just the sex pressure pushing me away. It's getting to the point where I don't want to be intimate with him at all as any contact he sees as a green light to progress a cuddle or whatever is then met with a sulk when I say I don't want to continue.

He does make lots of effort making meals but I'm so cynical that All I can think about is that there is an expectancy at the end of the night which puts me on the defensive and then I end up causing an argument simply to avoid the strop that he will pull when I say I don't want to be intimate because it's only when I get cross about it that he will let it drop and quit going on and on and on about it.

I'm know my sex drive isn't what it was but the sulks and date nights are not helping one bit. I dread any meal or date night. I'm not even sure why I'm even posting.

You must be such a catch.

Continue to initiate sex, with passion. If rejected (and without sulking!) ask "when might you be open for sex" and press for a clear answer.

NO NO NO NO

This does not work, I am sorry but there is nothing more off puting to a woman (any woman and I have a high sex drive) than "When might you be open to sex?" Men out there, don't do this, just don't! And the word "Press" concerns me.

Here's what you do. Continue to initiate sex with passion and with love and if rejected try again at a time when you think she might be open to the suggestion. Open your eyes to what is going on around you. I would also say that when I reject my husband because for example the dingbat tried to initiate sex after I had just 5 stories to a toddler that would rather compete in all the olympic events before they even consider sleep, and was not going to sleep for a long time then I made sure that I initiated sex the next time and at a better time. So it is up to both partners to initiate intimacy and should not only fall on the shoulders of men.

She has chosen to ignore your needs, you must stop meeting her needs. Treat her like a roommate. Keep up your share of household chores, continue to be loving and involved with your kids, but withdraw all warmth from her, she wants to be your platonic house mate, treat her as such.

No if you want to be nasty to someone that you are in a relationship with, then I would question the whole relationship. I do not reject my husband because I am being spiteful or selfish and I doubt many women do. To suggest that a man should react to the problem with spite is .

But Brightling never initiates sex. So if he doesn't, there is no sex. Asking her "when might she be open" allows her to think about the day/time when she won't be tired. Otherwise it is a guessing game, and she doesn't like to be "pestered" so it is best to let her think about it and give a clear answer.

I did not say to be nasty! I said to stop doing all those special nice things that loving partners do for each other. It is unreasonable to ignore your partner's love language yet expect him/her to still "speak" yours.

Until the post by Marathonmiker I thought the men who had posted on this thread had put forward some valid points of view, alternative viewpoints. I still side with those who think the OP needs help and support. The husband needs to understand his wife and not plan or orchestrate his getaway, at least not yet!!!

I am not sure from what I have read that the OP is going to be able to change the way she feels towards her other half.

Brightling never initiates sex

right, there is a reason for this and one of the things that they are working on. She can think about a time and day herself, she does not need to give him a date to plug into his calendar! The pestering and the questioning are one of the things that is actually putting her off sex. When we didn't have sex my husband didn't say "Let me know when you will be up for it?" he said "I'm here and I will be here when you are ready". It made me think about him "in that way" without pressure. Had he said "But when will you want sex? you need to let me know" we would probably be divorced.

The posts by typicalbloke and the last one by marathon have not been helpful.

dizzytomato is right. Demanding a date and time is really not the right thing to do and very oppressive. Things get said in the heat of anger between two people who fundamentally love each other and are instantly regretted of course. I can quite imagine in a husband who has been repeatedly rejected saying in an angry frustrated outburst 'well when will it be then!!!?'.

The right way is to take the heat out of the situation and talk and recognise each others position.

I actually read the full thread, unusually for me.

I'm always a bit torn on this issue (except when there's abuse, coercion etc, of course). On the one hand, of course nobody is ever obliged to have sex. Your body is yours and if you don't want to then of course you don't have to. And I definitely understand why your libido would take a hit when you're looking after small children, breastfeeding, shattered, broken sleep and all the rest of it. Any decent human should be understanding of that. And I see the OP's point that date nights etc are no fun when the only purpose is to have sex and your partner would happily do without your company and conversation and sees them only as means to a single end.

On the other, I do also understand that constant rejection and indifference towards one's needs for sex and intimacy are hurtful and distancing. If my husband didn't want sex with me, and didn't want to know how this made me feel, I'd certainly be questioning our relationship. Partly because I do have sexual needs and partly because someone who loves me is supposed to care how I feel and not be happy to wave me off without a second glance.

If I were the husband, I like to think I'd be prepared to help out with night feeds etc (expressed or formula milk) so my partner could get some rest, some time to herself and not be so touched out all the time, and accept that I won't be getting sex as often as I'd like, and that affectionate touching can be complete on its own. I also like to think I would find some way of talking about it without raising my voice or telling my wife that she's the problem and needs to be fixed with therapy etc. That's horrible.

If I were the wife, I like to think I could try to reassure my husband that I do love and fancy him (assuming I did, of course) and the problem was not personal, but simply that I have too many demands on my energy and time...and perhaps discuss some way of reducing those demands so I feel not just more inclined towards sex, but more appreciated and supported as a person.

So I'm not without sympathy to some of the sentiments expressed by some of the dudes here, and some have of course expressed them sensitively. But with that said...

Perseus, shut up. Shut up with your condescending lists of dictations to the OP, which ironically include an order to speak to her husband in a nice sweet manner that won't get his back up. And fuck right off with your order to her to stop breastfeeding. What a nob.

Whichever prick it was who mansplained feminism to us, you shut the fuck up too. Twat.

typicalbloke, I understand why you're narked by your reception. As you said, it was a Man's Opinion you bestowed upon us, and therefore should ended the debate there and then. But what can I say? Despite its sanctity as a Man's Opinion, it still came over like the ramblings of a self aggrandising, pompous bunglecunt, and so that's how people are generally going to react to you. But as this was exactly "as you feared" and enabled you to "rest your case", I wonder why you attempted to cast your pearls among us swine to start with?

And as for marathonmiker, well actually I want to thank you. I had a very tough night with the baby and I didn't think anything could make me laugh today. Then I saw your list of spiteful PUA advice and I cracked up, because nothing is funnier than a pillock on Mumsnet who thinks he's a suave ladykiller attracting women like flies to shit.

Best of luck to OP and her husband. If they love each other, I am sure they will find a way.

Sheba actually I'd like it to be known I had an orgasm whilst reading Magic Mike's Manifesto

Seriously hot stuff.

I think I love you Sheba

You've said everything I wanted to say but got instead I go stuck at spluttering at a computer screen.

Sheba :):)

I'm still at the advice for the OP's DH to go out more often and meet up up with other women to get ready to date again if she doesn't oblige to have sex with quickly enough.

It makes me despair of the Neanderthals around, the ones driven by their dick only.
The worst bit is that I actually don't think the OP's DH is one of them. Misguided maybe but not as bad as that (well I really hope I read that well for the OP's sake).
Maybe these men should come with warning attached to them. I feel for their partners tbh.

Ah, So that's why that man has just joined my yoga class.

Sheba - it is clear that you didn't read my 'condescending list' of suggestions because in your long multi paragraph post you simply repeated and paraphrased every single one of them.

Your suggestion "If I were the husband, I like to think I'd be prepared to help out with night feeds etc (expressed or formula milk) so my partner could get some rest, some time to herself and not be so touched out all the time, "

I covered this more precisely by suggesting the OP sleep in the spare room every night for a solid 10 hours for a week, her DH deal with the children if they come into the bedroom and my suggestion to stop breast feeding is little different from your suggestion to express breast milk or formula feed. We are on the same page. She is tired out, touched out and needs rest. I and you agree.

I further suggest explicitly he stop asking for sex and she offer some limited physical intimacy and you suggest that he accept sex will be more limited and affectionate touching is complete on its own. Again we are on the same page.

What you didn't cover is that the OP needs to see her GP. Many things can lead to low libido including serious illnesses and depression. I strongly feel this is important because my own DW discovered her life threatening illness from a routine trip to the GP.

I am also glad we agree that "that constant rejection and indifference towards one's needs for sex and intimacy are hurtful and distancing". I also have suggested in many posts that talking in a calm way is something both the OP and her DH need to do. I do not think setting out to upset him is the way to best communicate.

We do fundamentally and in much of the detail agree in our respective posts but frankly, you just seem to be annoyed that men posted on this topic and have come to it very late to make points that I raised several pages ago - and no I don't intend to to 'f* right off' because I have been on MN a good many years and I have lived with this issue myself for a decade longer than that. Meanwhile you have never experienced it.

My DH took to initiate talk about intimacy, rather than initiating sex. It made us feel closer, more connected because I felt he loved me unconditionally and wanted to understand me. That's what led to sex coming back for us. He certainly didn't see lack of sex as me being spiteful or punishing him in anyway so certainly wouldn't dream of a tit for tat approach which could only lead to more damage.

marathonmikers approach does no more than make any woman feel like her partner thinks she's only there to be fucked for his pleasure, not that he's concerned about her or intimacy.

I hope he's not in a relationship and doesn't have sons. It's astonishing how wrong somebody can be when they are certain they are right. He's got a multitude of women who have all been through similar sharing their experiences and how to improve things yet he's still certain he knows best.

Oh good God Perseus, just shut up already. Haven't you got a Gorgon to slay?

YY Sheba, agree with every word!

Ha ha cross post but still stands

Sheba

But Brightling never initiates sex.

Says who? You know this for a fact?

Sheba another poster who makes sense. Thank you.

Says the All-Knowing Man God who also knows that neither me nor Sheba have ever experienced any of the issues discussed on this thread

I also agree with Perseus.
Tbh his pov matches the one of Sheba too. Not all men are full on machos with limited understanding!
And reducing them all to that would make us just as bad.

Don't be so fast to discount my views, for a few reasons:

1. Brightling's husband may also be seeking input from friends or web forums. If so, he will be hearing alot about the things I have mentioned: stop whining; focus on your own attractiveness; keep initiating; don't accept vague/indefinite timelines; stop meeting her needs while she ignores yours; evaluate if you are compatible enough to remain married). Is it not helpful you you to hear what he is hearing?

1. All previous posters keep saying is he should back off, be patient, stop pressuring. That is the WORST possible advice ever!!! Sure, Brightling might be quite pleased to go a year without sex or him "pressuring her" but anybody with a normal libido would go insane, cheat, divorce, etc.

1. I was in a sexless marriage, very similar story to Brightling, wife was always too tired, focused on kids, low libido, not in the mood. Every conversation I had was "pressuring her". Constant fighting. Eventually I backed off. My wife was totally happy to go months without sex really loved the fact I didn't "pressure her" for sex, would have gone on like that for years. I lasted 9 months then I snapped. Only when I destabilized things did we make progress. I stopped meeting her needs; made it clear I would not stay faithful in a sexless marriage. This was a sufficiently strong message to snap her out of the selfish fog. That was over 8 years ago. I meet her needs, she meets my needs. We have a decent sexlife, averaging 2x per week.

How many times per year do you initiate sex Brightling?

You know his/her post was mostly satire right? What angers people about satire is there's usually a little truth to it. I do think Op is withholding out of spite and I do think her DH is initiating out of spite. Seriously though and just wildly speculating because we're only getting the version Op wants to tell us and if this has been an ongoing thing not just a few weeks but months or years it seems she may have some resentment/anger towards her husband and could be a sign of postpartum depression it can happen when a woman gives birth but there would be some kind of resentment toward the child(ren) too or feelings of not being as motherly towards her child(ren) as she thinks she should. She doesn't bring up the kids though like if their too much too handle etc. so I know this suggestion doesn't have much to go on.

Marathon, I don't believe your wife has a 'decent' sex life at all, if you had to threaten to leave her to get her to have sex with you.

I'm sure you'll protest otherwise though...but I suspect she is in the 'lie back and think of England' camp. A PP has written that she also did this and it made her feel sick, how does that make you feel?

Men bullying women into sex they don't want makes me sick. Men coming on MN to bully a breastfeeding mother into having more sex with her husband makes me sick.

Magic Mike, your wife doesn't have a decent sex life if she is married to a man who enjoys fucking a coerced woman.