Sexually frustrated Husband

[Brightling]

It seems I'm married to one of those men who gets very moody when their intimacy needs aren't being met as often as they would like.

We've been married a significant amount of time. When we first met my sex drive was average and a few years and very young children later it's pretty much dwindled. I'm all touched out by the children. I am very unhappy with my post multiple pregnancies body. I'm tired. All I want is to be able to go to bed and sleep without being propositioned. It's not every night but it happens frequently enough for it to be considered badgering. Actually what I would like also is for the "no I'm not up for it tonight" to be received with "ok let's sleep" rather than him raise his voice tell my I've got a problem, I need to see a therapist, I should stay off those websites (such as MN) and what's he supposed to do about HIS sexual needs as it sounds like he's supposed to have an affair if I'm not interested. He says he can't even cuddle me if I've said no as he finds it too difficult. Whenever I say none turns his back on me and I feel like I'm being punished for saying No.

I get that he is frustrated but I am not prepared to lay back and think of England. Sex is a privilege not a right. It's my body and if I don't want to I don't have to. Even though he says that he doesn't want me to do it for the sake of it I think he's BS'ing me. He tells me he's a nice person, a good partner, a good dad and that other couples are all having sex though he always refers to sex as making love.

When we are having an active sex life he is ridiculously happy and helpful and affectionate.

I can't stand the sulking behaviour when he's frustrated. He is a hands on father and he does pull his weight round the home. It's just the sex pressure pushing me away. It's getting to the point where I don't want to be intimate with him at all as any contact he sees as a green light to progress a cuddle or whatever is then met with a sulk when I say I don't want to continue.

He does make lots of effort making meals but I'm so cynical that All I can think about is that there is an expectancy at the end of the night which puts me on the defensive and then I end up causing an argument simply to avoid the strop that he will pull when I say I don't want to be intimate because it's only when I get cross about it that he will let it drop and quit going on and on and on about it.

I'm know my sex drive isn't what it was but the sulks and date nights are not helping one bit. I dread any meal or date night. I'm not even sure why I'm even posting.

Adrift that amount of pestering is beyond a joke FB Posts? I hope they wernt on your wall. Wall or PM its ridiculous He sounds like a teenage boy. A grown man would be treating you with respect and would have a much more mature seduction technique.

Last month i bumped into someone i dated but never slept with when we were both teenagers (we are both now early 40s and hes only a year younger than me) he said to me in a crowded supermarket "Every time i see you i think cor i want a bit of that" he hasnt moved on from the teenage years.

it reminded me of why i started dating older men.

It does sound as though having some time to yourself would help, OP. Not necessarily as a way to become more sexually compliant, but just as a way of feeling a bit better. Could he, for instance, look after the DC on his own one night a week, or one weekend afternoon, so that you can do something like go and see a film or have coffee with a friend, go for a swim or take a yoga class (or whatever other things you like to do but can't do with small children in tow?) I appreciate that you are bfing and don't want to stop (and there is no reason why you should) but maybe express and get the baby to take an occasional bottle? Or can the baby now go more than a couple of hours without a feed?

Don't think the baby has got the memo about my sleep requirements

Your baby needs a list, perseus-style.

Brightling - I can see you are prepared to do absolutely nothing to analyse or address the current situation apart from continue doing what you are doing.

In the end it will work. Your DH will get the message once you have rejected him often enough. He will stop asking for sex, he will stop doing everything that annoys you. He will do what you want and you will relax and feel a bit happier but still exhausted and he wont say a word but he will feel extremely low and unhappy. He will then gradually emotionally withdraw from you. At best he will be a sort of friend who helps look after the kids.

The posters above who have been through it have told you this. There is such a thing on MN described as a 'mummy martyr' and I think you are doing it. You need perspective on what is happening which is very difficult when you are in the thick of caring for small children. I think you need to go to counselling with DH so you and he can work it out together with a professional - not just a bunch of random people on the internet.

Good luck and I hope you can get past this but you will have to be willing to change as much as your DH.

Tell him you are going to take some practical steps beginning with stopping breast feeding because your 10 month old is now taking solids and can now take cows milk or breast milk substitutes and now no longer needs you.

Where the hell do you get off telling op that she needs to stop feeding??? Of course her baby needs her!! I don't believe people are putting sex above her babies need to feed. And babies should not be given cows milk, as a drink (ok in cooking) until 12mths old.

In return you will agree to be physically intimate with him once a week on your terms with no PIV or him touching you at all but for example taking a bath together and you sitting behind him massaging, cuddling,, kissing, touching him. NO!!! Just fucking NO!!

I also see how you have put all this on the op to solve.

OP, please don't follow this advice unless YOU & your baby are ready to stop breastfeeding.

I can see you are prepared to do absolutely nothing to analyse or address the current situation apart from continue doing what you are doing. That's low. Especially after the op said she plans to talk to her dh again.

Aside form which, how much sleep do you think the op, her dh & their children will get if the op follows #3 of your list? The children's sleep will be massively disrupted and NO ONE will sleep very well for a few weeks.

The trouble with this situation is that it seems to be a bit of a vicious circle. The longer it goes on, the more OP's DH focusses on sex; the more he does that, the more OP draws away, and therefore they carry on having no sex. I think realistically it can only be resolved by a full cards-on-the-table discussion with a mutual aim of agreeing a way forward which includes DH backing off and letting both of them relax, and OP trying to get out of the mindset that any sexual approach is an unacceptable demand.

Agree with Augusta -a llibido mismatch often does get into a vicious circle, with both parties desperate to 'win' on some level or at least to make no concessions. Resentment grows on both sides.

Part of the reason this happens is the cultural obsession with monogamy. As there are plenty of people happy with NSA sex, it shouldn't be a problem for the high libido partner in an unequal (in terms of libido) relationship to go and seek recreational sex elsewhere from time to time with the other partner's full knowledge, but there is all this cultural bullshit to the effect that breaching monogamy is the Worst Thing Ever - so you end up with lots and lots of miserable couples either turning bitter and resentful from the feeling they are undesirable, or gritting their teeth through rationed-out sessions of duty sex, or splitting up when everything else in their lives together is working well enough...

There is a bid difference between a situation where people just have different libido and one when for a while one of the partners has a lower libido.

If I am to spend 50 years with my partner, I'm not sure that 3 years when libido is lower is that much in the grand scheme of things tbh.

As for the 'focus on sex', I like to think that we are very much in charge of how we feel and our actions. Just as I had the choice of how I dealt with DH actions and to decide how I would react to them (eg NOT to be angry and ressentful), so has he the choice to NOT be ressentful because he didn't get as much as he liked.
That's the difference between Adrift husband reaction and dixxy's DH. Same situation, diffrent reactions.

having re-read the thread, i can honestly say i never saw 'giving in' to my DH's advances just to make him leave me alone for bit as 'rape'... i always did enjoy it, he's very good at knowing how to please me, and once i made that decision to go for it, i made the most of it.

The issue for me was that he wouldn't leave me alone to get to the point i wanted to initiate, and all his harassment just annoyed me, and occasionally distressed me, its not nice being told 'well fuck you then' and it did take away from the enjoyment of the act in that afterwards, rather than basking in the 'glow' of a good shag, my thoughts were often, well at least that's got him off my back for week or so, and i'd be in anticipation of the same cat and mouse game starting up again.

I don't hold those feelings in high regard, because it shouldn't feel like that!

My libido is low, its not non existent, and i always enjoy it more when i'm actually in the mood, and he enjoys it more because i'm certainly a more enthusiastic participant. i just wish he gave me more chance to initiate rather than having to make a conscious decision to participate.. if that makes sense?

both parties desperate to 'win' on some level This is what happens when people expect to continue to do everything their way when they live with someone else. They haven't figured out that to be in a long term relationship people need to talk and meet compromises. That in a couple there can be no such thing as having things your own way or attempting to make someone change to do things one way. Therapy can really help in these cases.

NSA sex can only be possible for people who enjoy sex for their own personal gratification. For many people a relationship must be both physical and emotional. Some people will forgo the physical if it means they can remain emotionally attached. For others the physical is more important and they will forgo the emotional to seek nsa sex. Lets say one partner has an affair to satisfy their sexual gratification . They do this by using another person and remaining emotionally attached to their partner. This works short term especially if they find someone doing the same thing. Even if that remote possiblility happens, the chances of them remaining purely physical long term without forming some kind of bond is unlikely, unless they are both extremely selfish individuals.

A person who can have NSA sex for many years without forming emotional bonds would be extremely selfish and self centred and that might be a big key reason to why they have a relationship problem in the first place. They cannot fo give and take, if they can't take from their partner, they find someone else to take from.

Polygymy works differently because it involves all individuals forming emotional bonds in the same way as working monogymous relationships.

The problem is not monogymy, the problem is selfish people who have yet to develop and learn how to give as well as take.

One thought i just had too.. a lot of mine and DH's problems are he's a late night kind of person, whereas i'm an early afternoon.. i prefer not to have the kids in the house, i REALLY cannot fully relax with DS in the house because i find it difficult to switch out of parent/carer mode i have to be in around him.

I know a lot of women i've spoken to have said the same thing. half the time its about the TIMING of the come on, its not that its a 'not ever' its a 'not now'.

OP, you and H seem incompatible for a happy marriage.
You shouldn't have to submit to him for sex.
And he shouldn't have to be celibate.
If you are unwilling to satisfy his needs in other ways (bj or hj?) then I have only 2 suggestions:

1. give him a hall pass
2. divorce, split the assets and kids, let each of you should find a compatible partner

Adrift
I wouldn't call it rape either and I don't think (m)any people would. But it is sexual coercion and harassment.

"The issue for me was that he wouldn't leave me alone to get to the point i wanted to initiate, and all his harassment just annoyed me, and occasionally distressed me, its not nice being told 'well fuck you then' and it did take away from the enjoyment of the act in that afterwards, rather than basking in the 'glow' of a good shag, my thoughts were often, well at least that's got him off my back for week or so, and i'd be in anticipation of the same cat and mouse game starting up again.

I don't hold those feelings in high regard, because it shouldn't feel like that!"

Please don't blame yourself for having those thoughts and feelings. He was the one who made you think and feel that way because of his unacceptable behaviour.

Feeling relieved that someone won't harass you for a while isn't your fault for feeling it. It's the fault of the person who harrasses you.

If someone said "well fuck you then" to me i would never sleep with them again.

I'm having exactly the same problems with dh as Brightling and Adrift. Adrift's description of the badgering resonated painfully with me although not quite as extreme. I am feeling pretty desperate at the moment with it all and, without hijacking, would love some advice. For the last three days I have spent much of my time upstairs to get away from dh . We are both very low and miserable about it all. I feel I hate him because of all the going on about sex. He won't go out with me. He never wants to go anywhere or do anything with me. He says it's a result of not feeling close to me so he's not interested but this is like chicken and egg stuff. I'm resentful about this which pushes me further away. He's always commenting on how sexy I am. I don't feel in any way sexy. He grabs me, makes suggestive remarks and asks me up front if we are going to have sex that evening. This puts me in a panic and has the opposite effect. He says he feels closer to me when we are intimate which I do understand. I feel used and only good for one thing. I think it's relevant that I was sexually abused as a young child and even a hint of feeling like an object turns me off. I don't see sex as most people do and I have struggled with intimacy always. It contributed to the break up of my previous marriage. I also suffer from depression which is getting worse the nearer I am to the menopause. I want to hurt myself the pain of this is so bad. I feel I'm not normal. I have no libido at all but what can I do? We are going to split if this isn't sorted but the only way I can see to sort it is if I "put out" more which I can't do. We are both so angry and resentful we can't talk about it. I feel he doesn't listen to a word I say. Sorry this is long.

Perseus where exactly do I say I'm not prepared to make any changes? Where? Unfortunately some of our issues are circumstantial. We don't have childcare so how are we supposed to have time together without the children?

I have already said I'm going to talk about my feelings and use joysmum's very articulate explanation. DH is a mostly reasonable person and I think it will hit home and he will understand. Already he's laying off the pressure for sex.

I'm not entirely sure where I say that I feel a need to win? I don't need to win anything at all. I want to have a happy fulfilled non pressured sex life again. I want him not to sulk when I say I'm not in the mood. I want him to accept that my first response is The response and not be interrogated or make attempts to coerce me.

I don't need advice on how to be intimate without it resulting in sex. Thanks all the same.

It's advice on how to communicate to him that his reactions are hurtful. I'm sure my rejection of him is equally painful.

Mmelemony I feel for you. Nothing worse than being asked "well when are we having sex then?" Not attractive esp if they can't even treat you decently in the meantime. Would be consider counselling? Do you want to stay with him?

Thanks for replying Brightling. It's a really horrible situation. I feel sorry for him as he wants a normal sexual relationship and it's me that can't. I don't like all the grabbing and hinting though and have told him it needs to stop. I think I'm in the grip of hormonal stuff too which isn't helping. I will talk to him about counselling. I've taken it on as all my fault. He says I'm not normal when he's upset but then apologises. It's a nightmare. I feel like a freak. Don't know what to do.

Men in such situations see it as the woman withholding sex as a form of control over them. If it isnt working and isnt fixable, i think you should both consider separating.

I've been there with this too. I understand from dh's POV he felt personally rejected and we did lose intimacy. From my POV it was never about him, it was about being exhausted and touched out and feeling frumpy etc, but it did become a vicious circle where he would harrass and nag and I would avoid any contact for fear of 'encouraging him'. What changed was three things: first, the kids got a bit bigger and less needy. Second, I realised I never actively want sex and haven't for literally years; however there are days when I think 'no way' and days when I think 'meh'. I decided to go with it more of the 'meh' days, because I do actually enjoy it once we get going. This averages about once a week. Then I usually do a bj another day, again when I am not averse. The biggest thing I did though was start to cuddle up on dh at bedtime again. I was very up front at first; ' I am coming for a cuddle because I love you, though I'm too tired for sex tonight' ( period time is a good time to start this). I think this really helped because though I wasn't constantly up for sex I wasn't being all cold and stand offish to him either.

Mmlemony
This is not all your fault and you're not a freak. I suggest you get some counselling for yourself. And possibly couple's therapy with your partner if you think he would engage with it and listen to your POV. But you have the right not to feel bullied, harrassed, guilted and coerced into having sex.

Have read this with interest.

I have been on both sides of this (the person not wanting sex and the person who is the prime initiator), so I hope this insight might help.

With 1st DH, I had a low sex drive, after kids came along (well, I was exhausted, with young dc and no help). He constantly tried to have sex with me. Nothing awful, but I felt very guilty, that I was always rejecting him. After a while, he completely withdrew. Never asked for it. I noticed the change. And I did nothing. Eventually, he started to have ONS and flirtations at work and didn't want me anymore. Then I couldn't forgive the cheating. In the end we separated.

I am now with DH number 2. Good sex life at first, but after a period of stress, and a death in the family, my DH libido went South, so I was always the initiator, and he rejected me a lot. At this time, my libido was high (kids grown, so much less stressed). Karma I thought! Anyway, after a while, I withdrew. I thought, no longer would I allow myself to be so rejected. Didn't try it on with him at all. Slept with my back to him etc. But....he noticed. And he changed towards me. Suddenly he was the initiator. Asking me for kisses and cuddles. Wooing me into bed.

Our relationship is now 100% back on track, with a regular and healthy sex life. I never initiate though, not even now. And he knows I never will.

I guess what I am saying is, if your DH withdraws, recognise that you have hit the danger zone, and what you do at that point is crucial - it may affect the success of your relationship in the long term.

No idea if that was helpful

Mmlemony what you describe is a trauma trigger. You may have PTSD as a result of the abuse. It might really benefit you to talk to someone who is experienced in helping people who are experiencing sexual problems with their partners as a result of childhood sexual abuse. It is sadly a really common problem.

Brightling - I am sorry. I spoke too harshly to you. What I wrote reflects the pain and sadness that this issue has caused me for too many years.

I could have written the words that *huskylover wrote.

They are very poignant and very well informed and you should take careful note, I will paraphrase them because this is what your husband may be saying in 15 years time.

"I never initiate though, not even now. And she knows I never will."

I totally endorse the summary huskylover gave. If your DH withdraws, recognise that you have hit the danger zone, and what you do at that point is crucial - it may affect the success of your relationship in the long term.