Sexually frustrated Husband

[Brightling]

It seems I'm married to one of those men who gets very moody when their intimacy needs aren't being met as often as they would like.

We've been married a significant amount of time. When we first met my sex drive was average and a few years and very young children later it's pretty much dwindled. I'm all touched out by the children. I am very unhappy with my post multiple pregnancies body. I'm tired. All I want is to be able to go to bed and sleep without being propositioned. It's not every night but it happens frequently enough for it to be considered badgering. Actually what I would like also is for the "no I'm not up for it tonight" to be received with "ok let's sleep" rather than him raise his voice tell my I've got a problem, I need to see a therapist, I should stay off those websites (such as MN) and what's he supposed to do about HIS sexual needs as it sounds like he's supposed to have an affair if I'm not interested. He says he can't even cuddle me if I've said no as he finds it too difficult. Whenever I say none turns his back on me and I feel like I'm being punished for saying No.

I get that he is frustrated but I am not prepared to lay back and think of England. Sex is a privilege not a right. It's my body and if I don't want to I don't have to. Even though he says that he doesn't want me to do it for the sake of it I think he's BS'ing me. He tells me he's a nice person, a good partner, a good dad and that other couples are all having sex though he always refers to sex as making love.

When we are having an active sex life he is ridiculously happy and helpful and affectionate.

I can't stand the sulking behaviour when he's frustrated. He is a hands on father and he does pull his weight round the home. It's just the sex pressure pushing me away. It's getting to the point where I don't want to be intimate with him at all as any contact he sees as a green light to progress a cuddle or whatever is then met with a sulk when I say I don't want to continue.

He does make lots of effort making meals but I'm so cynical that All I can think about is that there is an expectancy at the end of the night which puts me on the defensive and then I end up causing an argument simply to avoid the strop that he will pull when I say I don't want to be intimate because it's only when I get cross about it that he will let it drop and quit going on and on and on about it.

I'm know my sex drive isn't what it was but the sulks and date nights are not helping one bit. I dread any meal or date night. I'm not even sure why I'm even posting.

I notice a lot of people are saying sex is not love. I think for many people in long term relationships it actually is. Sex for me is a lot more than a physical act. Of course there are times when it is just quick and purely physical but the majority of the time it is an act of love and makes us both feel very connected and in love. I know when my husband initiates sex he is not just doing it to get his needs met. So it maybe that people's views and experiences of sex are very different. Which is why some cannot imagine how others feel.

We have had many occasions where sex is infreqent we have a SEN child that didn't sleep for more than 30 minutes for the first two years of his life, he would only sleep in my arms and was breastfed until 3 (my other three went to 14 months). In that time sex was a low priority for both of us. When we did have it, it was never in the bed and we needed to be quick and it was infreqent. I would say in that time, if my husband had pulled any of the stunts that you describe Brightling then I would very much feel the way you do.

I think the important thing is you do have a relationship and a history, you have a family together and it is just that at the moment you are on a rocky road. People overcome these times and just because he is making you feel this way now, is not going to be forever. I would say that therapy would help if you are at your wits end with the current situation, or if you feel that the current situation is going to get much worse and could threaten the marriage. It will be a turning point and not all turning points lead to the end of relationships. In fact many people who go through a marriage crisis emerge on the other side with a stronger and happier bond.

I think no one is saying that sex cannot be an expression of love.
But you need to make the difference between having sex as in making love, ie it's an expression of your love and having sex as in having a fuck, ie a pure and simple physical thing.
Then you also need to be careful not to think that having sex is the ONLY expression of love or rather the most important one in a LT relationship.

Right at the start of a relationship, having sex is that expression of infuation, 'love' etc... but for me at least, as we have been together for a longer and longer period it's non sexual expressions of love that are much more important. It's him asking if I'm OK, bringing me a cup opf tea when I look exhausted or saying that he will take the dcs away for the day. It's also the cuddles, and the hand holding. Sex as in having a fuck is no where near the top of list as a way to show love in my books.

The problem though is when ine partner is getting 'frustrated'. They aren't looking for sex as in act of love. They are looking for sex as a fuck. And somehow, it doesn't go down well with the lower libido partner who might have been more up to sex as an act of love rather than a fuck

Keep Just wanted to say that Dh and I are happy. Our relatyionship is good, better than it was all those years ago tbh.
It was hard work to get there and I suspect other people would have given up.

But I just wanted to give you one example of how things CAN work out rather than ending up splitting.

Can anyone, such as joysmum, describe what their spouse has done that has actually led to an increase in sex?

Someone mentioned that in the end it was left to the high libido partner to do all the leg work.
Actually in my case, I did most of the leg work. This is because I didn't look at it as 'an issue with my own libido' but as a sign of much more complex problem.
For us, we had communication issues (actually linked with some undiagnosed SN on DH side), we had societal expectations (both of us), issues with housework and childcare, anger (both of us but I did spent a lot of time working on mine which then help DH)
I drove the changes there and as we settled down in a better balanced relationship, all the things PP have mentioned (being attentive, cuddles but no sex etc etc) came naturally from DH side.

Just a comment about housework and low libido. The issue for me has never been housework as such. It was all about seeing what I was doing NOT appreciated at all (think grumble when DH was coming back at 8.00pm from several days trip with work and him tidying up the ONE toy still left in the living room. All before saying hello and giving me a kiss). It was about being taken for granted.
And also about stress linked with the fact he was still living his life as if it hadn't changed, leaving me running around like a headless chicken to try and have myself and 2 dcs ready in the same time it was taking him to get ready himself (and yes then being grumpy because we surprisingly we weren't).
That's where societal ideas come into play (you know the father that 'helps' with 'babysitting' but is actually 'totally helpless' etc).
It was a very different situation that the one dizzy is describing where clearly she and her DH were in it together.

TheStoic Fri 01-Apr-16 11:10:16
"When a HD wife seeks advice, she is told (more often than not, I believe) that it's got nothing to do with her, it's his problem. Maybe porn, etc."

Not strictly fair Stoic Many HD wives ( dont feel that my sex drive is all that high though as there can be weeks where i dont feel like it myself) are asked whether they have put on weight or their appearance has changed.

The thing is, because we have a society that separates sex very clearly, and where men and women are behaving and expected to behave in very different ways, it isn't possible that the reasons for a low libido are the same for men and women.

Eg porn is more likely to be an issue with men that women but being taken for granted, treated like a servant of the family is more likely to be an issue experienced by women rather than men.

Besides, things like giving birth, bleeding from periods, hormonal issues etc will only be experienced by women (i suspect a lot of low libido issues are linked with that)

Can anyone, such as joysmum, describe what their spouse has done that has actually led to an increase in sex?

I can't remember what he did, but I know that his sex drive came back before mine. I remember we went out as a couple, we had nice dinners together, we just got back to being us and not someone's mum and dad, but there was never any expectation attached to that. If I fell asleep after dinner or while watching TV he would just kiss me on the head and say I should go up to bed. He was always complimenting me. Not just complimenting me on looks but on ability and being a mother and how great it was for his and the children's lives and how much that was important to him. I never felt that this was because he had alterior motives but then I guess because he was away it was impossible that he even did. I would say it was just lots and lots of love and support and no expectations. He would always ask if I was in the mood, and I do remember him saying that he was looking forward to the day when I would get my libido back because he missed spending that kind of time with me, not that HE was frustrated because he wasn't getting any. I think bottom line was that it was about me and us, not about him and his "needs".

i've been here, and OP, i really understand, very much, my DH's reactions to rejection are incredibly similar to yours. We average sex maybe 2-3 times a month, he'd like it at least once a week or more, i'd quite happily go to once a month or less.

My issues are that i am very overweight and feel ugly, i have an autistic child who takes up large portions of my day and mean i haven't slept more than 4-5hrs a night for years, and once i've got him to bed, i just want to be left alone after 14hrs of being his carer.
I help look after my mum, and, right now, i have a problem with my hip which means i'm in pain constantly, and the joint locks often meaning sometimes sex is simply impossible because i hurt too much.

We separated briefly 5yo partly because of how he deals with the dry spells.

I want to try and explain it to people who persistantly say they don't understand.

You reject their advances, but they're still horny. They make comments about your breasts, your bum, about their intentions for later.

They send you lewd texts, post suggestive memes and tag you on FB, make constant double entendres and innuendo.

They walk past and either grope your breasts or arse, shove their hands inside your clothes repeatedly, pretend to hump you whenever you bend over.

They grab you when you're getting dressed. They come in for a kiss, but dont stop at kisses and feel the need to then try and remove your clothing.

They spoon up to you in bed and start trying to get their hands inside your trousers and you wake up to them poking you in the ass with their dick which they just got out of their trousers (so alluring and attractive)

IT becomes CONSTANT. EVERY interaction with them becomes about them trying to get sex out of you.

They stop seeing you as their wife, you become their property.. only every touch, every comment, every grab, grope, hump, kiss, cuddle becomes invasive, its like having another child hanging off you.

You start getting resentful, avoiding getting dressed/undressed infront of them. Wearing clothing that doesn't expose your cleavage, or isnt easy for them to get their hands inside of. You wait until they're asleep to go to bed and creep around in the hope you don't wake them, or feign sleep so they'll leave you alone.

You avoid kissing or hugging them, because they think its a sign you're up for it.

Eventually, they will get to the point that they make advances constantly in the hope one time they'll catch you at they 'right time' and give in to them, when in fact what they're doing is alienating you even more, because you just want to be left the fuck alone.

But of course, all that can be fixed by just putting out regularly right?

Wrong.

Its abusive, and disrespectful.

Adrift [flowers[ I've been in the same boat and relate to what you have described.

Thanks ideal. Luckily DH isn't like this any more, i left him and it was dealt with in counselling. i do understand how it makes him feel when my libido takes a nose dive. For some reason a lot of men equate sex with love, and feel left out and like they're the bottom of the pile with a wifes affections.

However, it doesn't matter how neglected a man feels, what i detailed in my post is NOT how to deal with your partner having a low libido, because its not going to make it recover, it will just push it further down.

Brightling - I have read this thread from top to bottom.

I want to suggest a practical plan of action to you.

1. Sit down with your husband without children around and tell him you fully acknowledge that he has a normal sex drive and yours is low because you are breast feeding and have very young children and that is not your fault or his fault but it is making you both very unhappy and damaging your relationship and you want to make things right but both of you have to play your part and work together.

1. Tell him you are going to take some practical steps beginning with stopping breast feeding because your 10 month old is now taking solids and can now take cows milk or breast milk substitutes and now no longer needs you.

1. You will both stop allowing children in your bed at all - full stop - as that disrupts your sleep and he will take the children back to bed if they come into your room so you can sleep uninterrupted.

1. For the next week only, you will go to bed at 8pm in the spare room to sleep alone, not stay up on a computer and have at least 10 hours uninterrupted sleep every day.

1. You will go to your GP and have full blood tests for thyroid, hormone and vitamin deficiency (as those can lead to exhaustion and poor sleep) and also explore whether you may be suffering from depression (your body image issues and exhaustion suggest it as a possibility)..

1. You will go out alone for a brisk walk for on hour each day alone in bright sunlight as daylight is important to stimulate normal sleep patterns.

1. Your husband will stop the date nights, special meals, etc. but give you an entire Saturday afternoon or night out alone or with friends each week without him and the children to recharge your batteries.

1. You will share house and childcare work equally and if necessary get a cleaner in once a week to take the burden off you.

1. Ask him to stop touching you or asking for sex completely.

10. In return you will agree to be physically intimate with him once a week on your terms with no PIV or him touching you at all but for example taking a bath together and you sitting behind him massaging, cuddling,, kissing, touching him.

Its a long practical list but it will convince your husband you really mean to take action and work towards restoring a more normal and happier sexual relationship.

You must give your DH some hope and heal yourself. You are both suffering.

and she should give up breastfeeding because her dh isn't getting enough nookie?

fuck that.

Really, seriously?! Are you joking? I agree with point 1 and point 8 if funds allow but I think the list that follows should be worked out together on their terms because what works for one family doesn't always work for others.

Jeez Persues, that made uncomfortable reading. Point 10 is horribly transactional.

Ideal - thanks for the optimistic tone! Although I would add that my desire for sex has never been just for a fuck. It was the bonding/validation and all that stuff that I was seeking, I wanted DW to feel how I felt. I realise that was wrong. Also it wasn't PIV I was particularly seeking, I think that closeness can be achieved in other sexual ways.

Adrift - I don't know what to say, I hope I've never behaved that badly, though my judgement of my behaviour is poor. If I felt my DW felt like that I wouldn't hesitate to leave and seek help.

Brightling - sorry for the lack if advice and the derail.

lol at that list.

Sorry but each person has their own values on what is important. If bfing is important to the OP, then it is and there is no reason at all she should stop.
If co-sleeping is their way to deal with night waking etc... then again, this is how it is, even this means it has some effect on libido.
And I have to say, as someone with ME, I do laugh at the idea that a mere week of 10h sleep will be enough for the OP to regain a normal energy level.... That wouldn't have been enough when my own dcs were at that age (and I didn't have ME either).

I do agree though that it cannot be solved by just looking at sex (or having intimacy wo sex, date night or whatever) and it is important to look at whatelse is going on. The OP did mention the effect of bfing and the co-sleeping and having the dcs 'on her' all day and night long. It's just that these 'solutions' might not be the best one for them.

Point 9 is a given and ime point 10 only arrives when you have solved all the the other issues first.

Point 10 should be there wo the 'In return'.
That's not in return but another step to get intimacy back together iyswim.

Maybe 'In Return' should be replaced by 'Later'

The idea of a list is to identify each specific issue and an action and that list is something to be done as a whole plan not a menu to pick and choose from. It is transactional in that both sides have to give up their current position in exchange for something better as a whole.

Of course the OP and her DH may identify a number of additional issues and agree different action points.

The alternative is continue the arguing and fighting and end up hating each other and eventually she may 'win' and her DH just gives up and withdraws emotionally as many other posters have said has happened to them.

I would just chip in that meeting your partner's need for sex is not your responsibility. You are not an object to be poked.

the thing with sleep, is you can't regain a sleep debt, because once you're rested, as soon as you lose sleep, you're in debt again.

I am chronically sleep deprived, i get 4-5 hours a night, sometimes its as little as 3, sometimes i manage 6. its rarely in one solid block and usually very broken. Such is the life of being a carer for a child with autism related sleep disorder.

DH will every few weeks pack me off to my mums for the night, i go to bed early, i sleep through, i wake when i'm ready. I feel refreshed, i come home, i get my average 3-6 hours sleep and i'm fucked again.

The op with a 10mo baby is in the same position. A couple of nights of solid sleep is not going to make a miracle energy level cure.

Trust me.

Adrift - I have a long standing health condition that means I cannot sleep even when I am exhausted. I have a sleep routine now and I have done all the things I suggested on my list to deal with it. It really cripples me not being able to sleep.

The OP must deal with the causes of her exhaustion in a very practical way. It won't just go away and just getting a week of good sleep will be depleted if she just goes back to BF and kids climbing all over her literally day and night.

Kids need to be loved but I do think there needs to be a boundary or they are all consuming and can consume your relationship with your spouse too.

No, you do not stop breastfeeding just so your husband can have a shag more often

yes there should be a boundary, and a sleep routine.

It does not and should NEVER include weaning before mother and child are ready, or making yourself or your bed unavailable to your children should they need the comfort.

If my children need to be with me, they get into bed with me... but then i co-slept with my youngest for 3yrs and we have a king sized bed for this very reason.

i get little enough sleep as it is, i'll be damned if i'm going to lay on their bedroom floors or squeezing into their tiny bed with my hip/back if they need a cuddle in the middle of the night.

The boundary is that when your children need you, they come first, not your dick.

Adrift

I'm glad other people have posted measured responses to that bullshit list. I can't do it I'm afraid! No words!

I won't be stopping breastfeeding. I won't be turning out children away when they need us in the night and this is a joint decision and my husband was the main driver in this.
Who do you suggest looks after the children whilst I have my daily hourly walk? My husband works and we have no childcare options. Same goes for the weekends. Like I said earlier in my thread we are barely in the same room as each other due to his work commitments. I would love to be able to have a regular Saturday afternoon all to myself I really would. Sleep? I've been up since 3am today with the baby! Don't think the baby has got the memo about my sleep requirements yet.

I will be sitting down with my husband and I will be explaining my feelings to him and I will be using the post written earlier by another PP as it is exactly how I feel and we will go from there.

Adrift I'm sorry you've been through this too. I don't get the horny texts or FB posts nor am I grabbed but I read your post nodding as what you say is somewhat familiar.