Sexually frustrated Husband

[Brightling]

It seems I'm married to one of those men who gets very moody when their intimacy needs aren't being met as often as they would like.

We've been married a significant amount of time. When we first met my sex drive was average and a few years and very young children later it's pretty much dwindled. I'm all touched out by the children. I am very unhappy with my post multiple pregnancies body. I'm tired. All I want is to be able to go to bed and sleep without being propositioned. It's not every night but it happens frequently enough for it to be considered badgering. Actually what I would like also is for the "no I'm not up for it tonight" to be received with "ok let's sleep" rather than him raise his voice tell my I've got a problem, I need to see a therapist, I should stay off those websites (such as MN) and what's he supposed to do about HIS sexual needs as it sounds like he's supposed to have an affair if I'm not interested. He says he can't even cuddle me if I've said no as he finds it too difficult. Whenever I say none turns his back on me and I feel like I'm being punished for saying No.

I get that he is frustrated but I am not prepared to lay back and think of England. Sex is a privilege not a right. It's my body and if I don't want to I don't have to. Even though he says that he doesn't want me to do it for the sake of it I think he's BS'ing me. He tells me he's a nice person, a good partner, a good dad and that other couples are all having sex though he always refers to sex as making love.

When we are having an active sex life he is ridiculously happy and helpful and affectionate.

I can't stand the sulking behaviour when he's frustrated. He is a hands on father and he does pull his weight round the home. It's just the sex pressure pushing me away. It's getting to the point where I don't want to be intimate with him at all as any contact he sees as a green light to progress a cuddle or whatever is then met with a sulk when I say I don't want to continue.

He does make lots of effort making meals but I'm so cynical that All I can think about is that there is an expectancy at the end of the night which puts me on the defensive and then I end up causing an argument simply to avoid the strop that he will pull when I say I don't want to be intimate because it's only when I get cross about it that he will let it drop and quit going on and on and on about it.

I'm know my sex drive isn't what it was but the sulks and date nights are not helping one bit. I dread any meal or date night. I'm not even sure why I'm even posting.

Itllallbefine - I'm very uncomfortable with being defined a rapist. I don't think my wife would define me as one, I don't think I have been deliberately coercive in my behaviour. However, the simple fact of the matter is that I believe* she had sex with me when she didn't want to and that has left it's mark.

• I have tried to talk about it, but communication is an issue, so this is an assumption based on available evidence.

The upshot of this is that logically I probably am a rapist. That's pretty messed up thinking I agree, very uncomfortable and I don't know how it would apply as far as legal/criminal law is concerned. Morally though, it's shaken me up and raised more questions than I have answers to. It's certainly defined my stance on this issue though.

"For those who see sex as something upon which there is no compromise and all the power in the relationship sits with the one who wants it the least, i don't understand how you can think this is remotely healthy."

The alternative has already been highlighted several times. It is far more unhealthy than your option I think.

"Given the posts on here - what shape would a conversation take ? "I would like to have more regular sex, I really like it and I really fancy you", "Well i wouldn't and you can't make me and if you don't like it, tough". 'cos that's really gonna work."

It's a bit reduced in content, and I'm sure more flowery language could be used, but yes, this is how it should be. It is going to work, it should work. People shouldn't be in relationships like that if it isn't going to work!

Keepithidden Your post is very sad There are lots of things that I do when i would rather be doing other things, i do them for various reasons, one of them is love. If i found an act to be physically repulsive and "mentally scarring" i would not do it. Do you not credit your wife to be capable of the same basic thought process ? If i ever imagined that sex with my partner would be mentally scarring i would of course never do it. This is perhaps the mental barrier for me here, i cannot conceive of a sexual act with my husband that would cause me mental trauma. I don't understand why people are with partners with whom sex could even be like that. Perhaps I am lucky in that regard, who knows.

I think given the definition of rape and sexual assault and all the "full & enthusiastic" consent stuff that gets written on here it's no surprise that people might reflect on a historical sexual encounter with a bored looking ex and assume that they must be a rapist (if male) or a committer of sexual assault, that is pretty much what gets said on these forums on a daily basis, it;s black or white. It doesn't mean it is correct.

I'd like to think you're right Itll, but the evidence even just on this thread suggests otherwise. It does seem to screw people (mostly women) up. I credit my wife with the same societal conditioning that I have received, and looking back I can see errors in my behaviour that I regret. I don't know if she does the same, I don't see why she should think any differently from my own standards.

Maybe you are as lucky as you think?

The enthusiastic consent thing should be the standard to aim for though, and I'm happy to go for that for the future. The alternative has already been suggested and is morally repulsive, and the middle ground you're proposing seems to be fraught with uncertainties, at least as far as my situation is concerned.

As always though, your experience is equally as valid, and mine may not be applicable.

Keep having been in the position of your DW, I will say that, for me, I have never thought about it as a rape. NEVER.

I didn't have sex with DH when I wasn't keen because I was forced to do it. I did because I thought it was the right thing to do. I was wrong and I got hurt in the process but I woud never put the resposnibility on DH shoulders. The responsibility is mine.

However, the idea that it was the rigth thing to do is coming from posts like the ones of itallbefine who says very clearly that she cannot comprehend how you can have an issue with having sex with the man you love and why on earth you would want to hurt him that badly by rejecting him again and again.
This idea that love =sex is a very common one. And this puts a hell of lot pressure on both men and women to do the deed even if they don't really want to. It's the 'Oh if you push yourself a bit, then you'll enjoy it' brigade. And yes sometimes you do. Maybe even most of the time you do. But when you don't, there should be no pressure what so ever to still have sex. There should be no guilt and shame to say 'my body, my decision'.

I think all I am saying is that it is usually no "effort" to have sex with my husband, i enjoy it. According to your logic, the person who initiated that evenings sexual activity must always retain a seed of doubt that the partner did not "really" want sex. Otherwise they would surely have asked themselves ? At least, they may agree to it, but if they were as enthusiastic as the initiator, then they would have initiated themselves. It seems unequal right ? If the idea of intimacy with my husband caused me mental trauma then we're both in trouble. If i was too tired, or simply wasn't in the mood, i would just tell him as he would tell me. If however one of us is repeatedly not in the mood, or infact, never in the mood, then there is a major problem, at least IMO.

why on earth you would want to hurt him that badly by rejecting him again and again.

errr no, that is not what i said at all actually.

Keep I don't consider you a rapist and I have a lot of respect for the insight you have shown in your position. I have seen many of your posts and we have chatted before. I think you should leave your wife, but you know that.

If the OP's husband showed half the self awareness that you do, neither of them would be in this unhappy situation in the first place.

In the interests of balance I am not attempting to say that sexual coercion is not a thing, clearly it is.

itll you are posting from the priveliged position of being in a happy relationship where you both are on the same sexual page and your libido not having taken a nosedive for various reasons

I am also in that priveliged position, but I can see how it would be if I were not

can't you ?

what I don't understand is what the big hang up about sex is, I'm happy to give my husband a quick hand job (sorry for TMI) before bed if suggests something, if I were not happy to do that, and indeed, i found the possibility of touching my partner intimately"scarring" then my relationship is fucked up*

I'll try and explain itallbefine as it was for me.

At first, it wasn't 'scarring'. Of course it wasn't. I wasn't keen but you know, II really wanted to make an effort, keep my relationship going, make my DH happy. So we did have sex. It wasn't great but I had done my best.
And then later, the situation comes again. And again I want to do it right. So here we are again. But the more we do that, the more I feel used. The more I dislike it. The more I ressent being there for his sexual pleasure with little in return for me (because I don't want to have sex, there is no arrousal etc etc). It's this feeling of being used that is scarring. That is what hurts.
Even a quick hand job (that is IF Dh had been up to it, not every man would like it, and tbh a hand job done by someone who is doing it as a way to get out of full on PIV and as a duty rather than because they really love/want to do it can't be nice anyway) can be hurtful. Because the issue isn't the act as such (handjob, blow job PIV), it's the fact you are being used for the sexual satisfaction of one person but wo any pleasure from you (see above).

For me it's a bit like if you really love sprouts. And then one day, you get pregnant and you have morning sickness. You really don't feel like eating sprouts but it's your b'day and your DH has prepared sprouts just the way you like them. So you eat a bit of it out of politness, because you don't want to tell him his efforts were wasted etc... And then a weel later, your mum prepare sprouts again 'to cheer you up'. Again, you feel sick, the mere smell of sprouts makes you sick but you don;t want to offend. So you eat them. And the pattern repets itself agin and again for the whole of the pregnancy because, unfortunately the nausea stayed with you all the way. Now, what do yout hink has happened? At the end of the pregnancy, do you still love sprouts and have grown to hate them?

It's the same really. Repetition, feeling you have to. Shame and guilt about yourself if you don't (after all we are supposed to WANT and ENJOY having sex wiith our partners right?). Expectation from your partner to have sex (as you've had sex a week ago so your 'not wanting to' might not be that strong) etc... At then end, you get hurt.

And more precisely, as you have experienced yourself, BOTH partners get hurt.

For those who see sex as something upon which there is no compromise and all the power in the relationship sits with the one who wants it the least, i don't understand how you can think this is remotely healthy

Could you tell me what sort of compromise you are thinking about?

My experience has been that there is no compromise. Actually things didn't start to improve until I started to say NO full stop.
THEN we started to address other issues. You know the 'external influences' I talked about before, lack of involvemernt from DH with the dcs/general running of the house, my own exhaustion etc. Things that had a big impact on my own libido and how I felt towards DH (eg I can't be attracted to a man that I feel is taking me for granted. It doesn't mean I don't love him. It means I don't like his behaviours, enough not to want sex)
And a lot of other things.
In effect, we worked on finding a solution to the issue (low libido, lack of trust and intimacy etc...) before we talked about sex again.

I'm sorry for your situation Ideal, but i also don't understand why women fancy men who do the dishes etc. Perhaps my sexuality is different to yours, but i don't not find my husband sexually attractive because he hasn't done the breakfast dishes when i get home . regarding compromise, if you never want sex, there is no compromise because that is a different situation that just not wanting quite as much as your partner.

I can't really relate to being horrified at the thought of sex or losing my sexual response, it's easy for me to understand why loss of sexual feelings for me by a partner would be hurtful. I wouldn't want them to be guilted into sex, if i did lose all sexual interest in my husband, i would be fully prepared for and think he would be wholly justified in choosing to end the relationship.

I am not particularly attracted by someone who does the dishes. I have a big problem with being taken for granted (which can be related to doing the dishes). I also have a big issue with equality and respect.
These are my own deal breakers (that I've worked out afterwards btf) and things that would put me off sex if there would be showing up in a man.

But you also have the 'being touched up' all day by the dcs, the exhaustion etc etc. (more physical issues)

No situation is simple. And what are our 'triggers' will be diferent from person to person.

But really it's not about relating or understanding. It's about accepting that other people can have a different experience and why.

I do accept people can have a different experience, but also think that the OP's husband is hurting and his behaviour is a manifestation of that, he;s basically been labelled as a most offensive person and posters who came on to suggest that it was the OP who was being even slightly unreasonable have had their position equated to support for marital rape.

I think that withdrawing from a sexual relationship will cause problems, to pretend that it doesn't and that someone who reacts to this profound change in their circumstances in a childish manner is, beneath contempt is extremely one sided. If i ever heard my husband describe me touching him in the way the OP describes her husband i would leave, thanks for attempting to explain why i perhaps shouldn't, but i'm not sure i would react to the situation with my dignity entirely intact either.

Btw I don't think anyone should feel particularly sorry for me.
This was 15 years ago. I'm still with DH and our relationship has grown much much stronger.
Yes it was hard work but it was hard work worth doing.
And yes I made some mistakes and DH made some mistakes too.
But we've learnt and we've learnt together.

I just wish that people could learn from my own mistakes and to not repeat them themselves.

I have never seen a relationship issue that didn't involve the two people in the couple making mistakes in some ways (communication, assumptions, whatever it is).
And starting from from that point, imo, always helps.

Keepit i dont consider you to be a rapist either. No way in hell

As a woman in the same position it has been so long (the affair ended in 2008) that i actually found PIV incredibly painful the last time i tried it. It was like razor blades. I met up with someone about 18 months ago (DH knows about it) and tried it and the pain was awful but he was very good about it and stopped immediately.

And there is at least once in every 3 years that i cant avoid this pain ......my smear test. Because women cant stop having those even if we are not having sex anymore . You have to have them if you have EVER had sex. Ive thought about skipping it but that probably wouldnt be wise. Last one was the year before last so its due again next year. Seems to come around so quickly

Helena Do you have a medical condition that makes PIV painful? (Sorry if you mentioned it earlier in the thread and I missed it.) I did for years, but with the right diagnosis and specialist medical care, I don't any more (it still feels strange to write that!) If you want to talk about it please feel free to PM me x

So many posters misreading and making assumptions.

I won't be reserving Wednesday evenings for half an hour.

I get that he is frustrated and feeling rejected but there is no need to badger me and sulk and withhold any affection unless it's a precursor to sex.

Where do I state that our marriage is sexless? Currently we haven't had sex in four weeks. My periods are just returning after having a baby and they are all over the place and lasting longer and are heavier than usual which explains one week. Can't believe I am having to justify this. Everyone's libido is different and different people have different opinions on it.

I'm breastfeeding. My libido is lower than usual. My breasts are off limits whilst I'm breastfeeding and I do not like any intimacy involving them currently. We also have children in our bed at some point most nights and often have them appear without warning.

I have not said that I would not go to therapy. What I did say was that he would be surprised to discover the "current" situation is not all my responsibility.

The main point of my thread was about his attitude and sulking and, yes, coercion! The sulking is pushing me away even further.

Concerning the date nights for example, there is always the expectation for sex. I don't feel as though it's about spending quality time together it feels to me as though it's all about the sex at the end and not genuine. I can't explain this very well.

If I am not keen and say no or reject advances (which was not always the case for those readers who are making incorrect assumptions) then I receive lots of questions asking me to justify why not and these questions can go on and on and on. He will not stop firing questions at me and the only way to get it to stop is to get cross with him. At the moment there is a constant underlying pressure. He may not even realise he is doing it but to me it's a huge turn off. It's almost as though it's not about us and more about him getting his needs met because I feel his not really bothered about me or how I'm feeling it's about his sexual wants and I feel like a facilitator. I'm not explaining myself very well.

AnotherEmma i think its more due to not being physical for so long. But also because of this i suppose i could have something wrong and not know it.

You're explaining yourself perfectly well, OP. Some of us got it! But you don't need to explain yourself to those who didn't - they probably never will (judging from past experience of threads like this).

Helena I don't think it is normal, love. Could be vaginismus, vestibulodynia, or a bunch of things. I do suggest seeing a GP (preferably one who knows more about gynae issues than the average and/or a younger, more recently trained GP who may be more likely to recognise and diagnose or refer).

Sorry for slight sidetrack!

Thankyou Emma

Brightling - you're explaining yourself perfectly well.

I'm afraid to say that some people are deliberately misreading your posts.

Helena - no advice but

I get you, brightling