At breaking point with my wife

[JamesTiberiusKirk]

This weekend was a culmination of fractures that have left me feeling that my marriage is in serious danger.

Firstly, it was our daughter’s birthday weekend, with a children’s party on Saturday, and a family gathering at our house on the Sunday. For the Sunday, my wife had promised my daughter a multi-tiered rainbow cake, not an easy endeavor to bake, and unfortunately it went wrong. I tried to reassure her that we could get a nice replacement (which I went out and bought) and that it was fine – baking something ambitious for the first time is always open to trouble, and I tried to make her feel better. The cake and hand mixer were violently dumped in the bin, and she proceeded to treat me like crap for the rest of the day – accusing me of not tidying / cleaning fast enough (I cleaned and tidied the entire house before our guests arrived.) and generally being really vile.

Secondly, it was, of course, mothering Sunday. I had bought cards over a week ago, and had planned to go into town on the Saturday afternoon to pick up some gifts. The plan changed slightly so I could go to Cribbs Causeway in Bristol. This was to get sandwich platters from the Marks and Spencer’s there, as well as to give me a better selection of shops to get her something from. She raised no objections to any of this on the Saturday. I got her a box of Chocolates from Hotel Chocolat, a bunch of blood-orange roses and a voucher to a beauty store that she likes a lot. I felt that was a nice package for her. I took the kids downstairs early on Sunday morning, so she could have a 3 hour lie-in. We all came up as a family to give her the gifts later on while she was in bed, and she seemed happy with everything. It was only later in the evening that she complained about what I had done. She said that the whole thing had been an afterthought, and then, most painfully, said that she felt I was buying her chocolates to sabotage her weight-loss efforts (she recently started dieting in advance of her friend’s wedding later this year). Suffice to say, that was not on my mind when I bought the chocolates.

This is not new behavior, having happened a number of time previously. The point of friction leads to days of silent treatment punctured by mono-syllabic responses. I find it all incredibly stressful and I end up just feeling very lonely. My wife struggles to talk about emotional issues like this, and it usually veers between silence or outbursts. We have talked about how unhappy I am with this before and either she promises to change, or she minimizes the issue, which makes me look unreasonable. I don’t want to be having the same conversation for the rest of my life. I feel like a punching bag and I am sick of it.

I am, of course, a long way from perfect. I have found the increased demands of two children hard to handle at times, and I get frustrated a lot and can be short-tempered. I am also significantly over-weight, as is my wife, and I think this is a major drag-factor on our general happiness. All that said, I don’t think (and have never been accused) of allowing this to devolve into cruel or abusive (emotionally) behavior, and this is where I feel we are now. When these kind of situations arise she behaves like a bully.

There is no pull-factor at play here, no other person I have an eye on. It is a non-factor here.

Am I being massively unreasonable here in my expectations of how a couple should work and communicate together? Are these Mother’s Day presents unacceptable?

I have to say, what I get from from this, is a woman who has had a baby, moved house and returned to work in the past year. Add trying to lose weight, a couple of parties, having PILs to stay, and a cake go wrong - well that could push anyone over the edge a bit. She's trying to be everything - mum, domestic goddess, working out of the home, slim.

The reason she criticised your MD's gifts were probably: she's trying to lose weight and you gave hers chocolates, this was a busy birthday weekend, and you went shopping on the Saturday pm (if I read it right), which strikes me as a last minute thing - don't get me wrong, it's not bad what you did (my DH does the same) but when she's got a barrel load of stress on her plate, it's obviously just a bit much for her. Having a baby and returning are tough, moving house is tough, birthdays are tough - and IME, the lion's share of the organising etc is generally left to the wife. Wifework is what it's called - look it up - it may give you an insight.

Hi OP

That all sounds really tough. Your wife's behaviour makes me also wonder whether she might be depressed. I am exhausted at the moment with 2 young kids and husband who works away during the week, and I have often felt bitter and resentful towards him - though I have never treated him as your wife has treated you. But this is to say that she is probably feeling quite low indeed.

When you do start the conversation, I'd suggest leading with "I can see you are unhappy. I know you find it hard to talk about these things but can you tell me how to help?"

Try not to get bogged down in the details of who did what, eg you threw the mixer in the bin! You got me chocolate when I'm on a diet! Because that just makes everyone defensive.

It's not WHAT either of you has done. It's WHY. Once the WHY is in sight, it is easier to say how hurt you were by the behaviour, as much as you love her.

If she were opened to it, counselling would really help, either as couple or one on one.

Good luck.

Obviously I have only heard your side but your wife comes across like a spoilt teenager. She is finding motherhood and maturity a hard path to follow I guess.
The weight thing is an emotive issue and she is probably feeling depressed about the whole thing. You sound as if you are supportive in practical ways, cleaning up, shopping etc and that is great but ....
Maybe what your wife needs is emotional support more so than practical measures.

ProjectPerfect:

My DW uses Mumsnet, but does not frequent the relationships forum, as she finds it depressing. I am well aware of the irony.

OP this made me wonder, is your wife originally from another culture by any chance? Not trying to justify the way she acted, but I know that in different cultures this can be acceptable. I also think that she either might not be aware of how bad her words made you feel OR unable to deal with it on her own. You both need to talk and be prepared to compromise if you want to continue as a family unit.

I think your gifts sounded lovely and you were also very helpful. My dad died the day before and all I got was a box of malteasers.

This thread, however, is now in "Trending", which most people click on. The details in your OP are hugely identifying and I do have to wonder if you hope she would stumble across it and just decide to mend her ways without you having to go through the pain of confrontation? I actually think she's likely to feel extremely betrayed instead. If I were you I'd ask MNHQ to move the thread or edit the OP to remove identifying details.

"The last year has been very busy, with the birth of our son, me changing jobs and a house move in January. My wife went back to work last week..."
If she was just behaving like this in the last year I think the behaviour could be "blamed" (but not excused!) on these massive life changes and stresses, but you say:
"This is not new behavior, having happened a number of time previously...sometimes when there has been no similar pressures."
which suggests it's everyday irritations and stresses she doesn't deal with that healthily either.

"My wife struggles to talk about emotional issues like this"
Then I think she owes it to herself and you to learn how to communicate because she simply can't go through life bottling up her anger then lashing out. Has she ever had counselling to investigate why she finds it so hard?

"We have talked about how unhappy I am with this before and either she promises to change, or she minimizes the issue, which makes me look unreasonable."
In that case I think you should lay it on the line and say that this behaviour has to stop because (in your own words) you're "sick of being treated like her punchbag". That being stressed or exhausted is understandable but taking it out on a partner is not OK. That she should learn to communicate with you so her stresses don't accumulate and get to bursting point. You say you've become short tempered too, so both of you would benefit from some professional help by the sounds if things.

I can sort of relate to the whole chucking the mixer and cake thing in the bin, when you have set yourself an impossibly large task that looked you thought you could do and you failed, that is how you feel, a failure, Your efforts to try and sort it were all you could do but enforced the feeling of failure. She promised her dd a fantastic cake, she promised she would be the one to deliver, she would be the hero, she failed, you become the provider, she is then surplus to requirements. She probably carried that forward to everything else. I don't think a 'conflict talk' will help. I think she needs to feel she is in partnership with you. The question is do you want to be in partnership with her, this is her nature to bottle up, to explode probably inside more than outside, to strop and to not be able to talk or find way back from it and then just to fester til the effort runs out. I reckon you need to find a way to laugh with her, not have a deep down 'talk about the future/where are we going/what is going wrong'. Sure she behaved badly, we all do in some way some time and often repeatedly. Am tempted to say try baking a cake together and don't worry when it ends up in a food fight but make sure the kids are in bed. Never underestimate the misery of dieting and pressure to measure up (or down) next to her friends.

You both sound exhausted and unhappy, and as though neither of you currently as any energy to deal with your relationship problems. I think that sometimes in a relationship, you need the other partner to step in and be strong and nurturing and loving towards you until you get your mojo back and can be loving again. But at the moment, you both need the other person to be the strong one.

I think that is the sort of relationship problem that counselling really does help. At the moment, you are both holding each other back without really wanting to. Properly talking things through, including all those things you are afraid to say to each other, finding shared goals for the future that can you work on as a team and making situations in which you can feel and show affection for each other would make a huge difference, if you can do it. You will probably both have to make changes to bring about a future you are both happy with, but that future doesn't sound out of reach.

Your DW is being abusive. And throwing the hand mixer away with the cake then getting at you for being slow is both histrionic and vindictive. She sounds unhappy and discontented, but not because of anything you have actually done wrong. You do need to raise this with her, as it is unfair for her to allow her moods to overshadow everything you do. At the moment, you are stuck in the rut of not being able to do right for doing wrong. You can't second guess how to fix her discontentment - she has to learn how to communicate in a more constructive, less childish, fashion... Unfortunately, you can't make her! But you can at least try, by making it clear to her how intolerable that behaviour is to you.

• you say you clean and do childcare 50/50. you sound really sure about that. That is what my DP would say, or even that he does more, and he is OBJECTIVELY WRONG. I can't raise it with him because it makes him furious and he shuts the conversation down.

I don't know this for sure but your wife may be under more pressure than you realise with practical household tasks and she may be resenting you for the fact that she has to pick up things you don't even see.

• it is clear that communication has broken down. she is being silent, she is throwing things in the bin - these are all ways of reacting to something she can't express otherwise. It may be nothing to do with you that she can't communicate properly with you BUT IT MAY NOT BE. you sound pretty complacent abut being the good guy. What happens when someone suggests you're not? How do you take it on board?

• your wife sounds under incredible pressure: job, two small children, in-laws visiting, weight loss. All fucking soul destroying. Now I know you're not happy but you need to think really hard about how you raise this because what you MUST NOT do - or appear to do - is "pull her up on her behaviour". It's not on. She's struggling and you have to be on her side. It's not ok to be whining about what you want right now. Get the communication open - which means you CAN'T make it into yet another fucking job for her to do "oh now I'm on the 4th / 5th shift - looking after husband." She'll just get rid of you (maybe that's what you want?). She's at breaking point.

• This thread is about you wanting things to change. Trust me, so does she. She isn't doing any of this for fun. Think honestly, constructively and creatively about what you can do to open up some space for her to recover some equilibrium. It will mean you doing more, or buying in some help for her to just take off for some hours a week - or go to bed. She doesn't have the resources to be nice to you right now. Or even be ok to herself. What can you do to increase her personal resources?

OP
you okay? I hope some of the responses here aren't putting you off replying.

take care.

If you have parents staying, get yourselves out the house for at least a mini date!
Your wife could well have post natal depression (I was vile whilst having post natal depression). Even if it's not post natal depression, your new child is still young and I personally found life took a couple of years to return to normal after our son was born. Losing weight together would surely be a bonding experience for you both, giving you more energy, better moods. Get the kids involved in going for long walks, get out the house into the fresh air and spend happy family time together. Spring is coming! We've tried counselling but if money is tight, a bit of Google research / reading and gentle chatting & understanding goes just about as far. Good luck!

Three sides to every story - his, hers and the truth.

You have both been through a very trying time. Especially the DW - first week back at work after a year - and then such a stressful weekend? Too much. I would have cracked at less, much less.

your wife sounds under incredible pressure: job, two small children, in-laws visiting, weight loss. All fucking soul destroying

really

this is normal life for most of the people that post here, hardly soul destroying

tiring, yes- I'll allow that. but Ops wife is dealing with the normal travails of working motherhood, no excise for being a bitch

*My DW uses Mumsnet, but does not frequent the relationships forum, as she finds it depressing. I am well aware of the irony.

erm, this thread is tending. she is going to be even more fucking depressed if she reads this thread which is sooo identifiable*

I could be completely wrong here because I am speaking from a personal perspective and what I want could be completely wrong too.

I know I need to lose weight - I don't want helpful suggestions from my husband as to how to do it. It just feels like more pressure. Like a smoker I need to find the reserves to want to do it myself and to get on with it. I'm not stupid, I know what it takes to lose weight and sustain that.

I work FT too with two small children and I don't have the emotional and mental headspace at the moment to see beyond the list of "stuff" that needs doing between work and home. I will always prioritise this above any time for myself. I know that's not the answer but I see parallels with myself and your wife.

She was a bitch to you on Sunday and should apologise and you should definitely make the point to her that you are not there to be her punchbag when she has a shit day. Maybe you could have done things differently but perhaps the time has come to simply point out that you are not a mind reader and she is not superwoman.

Arrange some time out just for the two of you. If you can arrange someone the kids know to do pick ups and bathtime so you can both go straight from work and get home at a reasonable hour then all the better.

For the love of god, don't talk about the kids, the gym, a diet regime, what needs changing an agenda in other words. Just have some fucking fun and reconnect. The rest will come but it won't if there isn't even a basic level of affection left between you.

I'm on a permanent diet & exh always got me chocolates that's fine, as a pp said I just offered them round because, manners

It sounds so difficult, you are both on a never ending rollercoaster of working, childcare, cleaning, jobs & resentment can build up.
I think you need counselling together to learn how to communicate, silent treatment & all that may not be out & out aggression but it's extremely damaging. Make an appointment & tell her you're going.

For future reference make Mother's Day 'from the kids' a handmade card, a framed kiddies painting, fingerprint jewellery if she likes that sort of thing. My dad always got my mum flowers on each of their dcs birthday as a way of letting her know she was appreciated as a mother, I thought it was so romantic especially from a non romantic guy.

Many posters seem to have missed the part where OP said "This is not new behavior, having happened a number of time previously" and "sometimes when there has been no similar pressures". So he's not just talking about this weekend or the big things, this is indicative of how she handles stress and annoyances in general. She may have very good reason to be pissed off with OP, who knows unless she comes here and gives her side of the story, but what we do know is that (according to OP) she communicates badly and takes stress out on him.

OP, as balanced advice as you and some other posters may want - this is MN and it's likely that posters are mostly women therefore - YES there is a tendency for bias towards how your DW feels BUT the flip side is that this perspective can help you see it from both sides.

What I will say about your DW's circumstances (changes to body, hormonal shifts, two small children, recently back to work after ML and all the associated feelings eg guilt etc, a weight loss diet, incongruent expectations on both your parts for the weekend and then your parents thrown into the dynamics...) Goodness! I can only but empathise with her!

If you can't see that things need to change (eg more understanding from you that you both need to ride this through, and taking steps to keep the pressure minimal eg not having your parents stay at such a volatile time [for me - theres a definite difference between PIL and my parents staying - I find latter are much more helpful/relaxing company] or actually trying to join her in diet/exercise goals, or approaching her in advance and asking her if she'd like a [more thoughful & fresh approach] spa day, or an evening out with friend(s) doesn't just have to come at an event like Mother's Day & can be offered whenever), and that there are problems bigger than 'what she whacked into the bin' or 'not being grateful for your gifts', then I'll emphasise now to you that - you've got work to do as well as her getting through her feelings (acknowledging her moods/unreasonableness).

Lets face it - she has carried the babies and her body and hormones have taken a toll for the last three to four years at least (I'm not sure if more or less?)

She's not spoilt. She's having a hard time (and yes it's hard on you too - but...) she wants things to get easier and in this quest she probably needs some time&space to work through her roller-coaster feelings.

When things get nasty - you need to calm the tone by saying something like:
'Look, I'm going to let you have some space and a few moments, and when you've calmed down we'll talk about how things are going and what we can do to help each other out through this'. Also, the offers of a night out (bar/restaurant, gym etc) with a friend, or a spa day (can cost less than what you paid for the conventional Choc/flowers stuff) might help you look like you're 'tuning into' what she she might see as thoughtful and could therefore help her transition to open up about her feelings and resentments.

This may sound one-sided and before you throw equality at me - he experience of family life has been more involved than yours - let's be fair about that. Eg, she's gone through the pregnancies/hormones/feelings, RE: body, most women will tell you that societal expectations and self expections are much more complex for women than they are for men.

Though in general, both of you need to be more considerate, patient, and give each other time to get bearings - it's up to you if you want her to take such initiative or whether you are willing to lay down the foundations of such thinking having consulted a wealth of analysis on here...

• her experience of family life has been more involved than yours

Just read UnderTheGreenWoodTree's post. Excellent suggestion.

'Wifework', and 'Shattered: Modern Motherhood and the Illusion of Equality' are books I'd recommend to give you an insight into the sheer EMOTIONAL LABOUR that can be the case for wives compared with husbands.

That's if you're prepared to look deeper and harder...

lorelei9:

I am fine, thank you for asking - I am at work so my ability to post is restricted by who is looking over my shoulder.

A lot of people have pointed out the stress that my wife has been under. I am very aware of this, and have tried to be as sensitive and helpful as I can be, particularly as she adjusts back to work. My parents visiting this weekend was a mutual decision that we both agreed to as we needed childcare help this week. It wasn't foisted upon her, though I think the presence of anyone staying in your house for more than one night invariably introduces some stress. However, a lot, but by no means all, of this stress is shared stress. The birthday parties are joint ventures, they don't fall on one or the others shoulders - we share that kind of thing. When our children wake up in the middle of the night, they don't just wake her - we get exactly the same sleep, or lack thereof.

The whole cake / hand mixer dunking incident is concerning not because of her throwing it in the bin (I couldn't care less about the mixer) but the angry shouting and general nastiness thrown my way immediately afterwards. Perhaps I should have thicker skin and just let it was over me, but I just get stressed out by that kind of behavior.

In terms of references to this having happened in the past. This is generally how my wife handles stress and unhappiness. She finds communicating about her emotions difficult, so it tends to manifest itself in either eruptions or passive-aggressive behavior. This is not all the time, but in periods when her unhappiness / stress is more pronounced. I find it a lot easier to talk things through, so there is a disconnect here.

None of this makes me a perfect communicator, or a perfect husband. I am a long, long way from that. I am not trying to portray her as evil personified. I care deeply for her and want to help. The reason I am on here posting is I have been in this situation 4 or 5 times now. If I had a solution I wouldn't be here.

We are going to go out just the two of us tonight to try and relax for a couple of hours - hopefully this will help relieve some tension.

Thanks again for all your comments.

Nina YY to everything there.

It isn't always one husband and one wife ... its the whole of society.

And having had Postnatal Anxiety, while I never got "the rage" after recurrent miscarriage at women who are blasé about babies, I do absolutely get the rage at PP who go "ooh she's just spoilt" when she's clearly in need of some kind of counselling. Yeah she's acting badly, but she sounds like she's in a bad place.