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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Seriously thinking about NC with DH's side of the family

467 replies

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 22/02/2016 02:46

This is going to be long but think I need to post the background

I've posted previously about SIL's wedding. I have 3 DCs - age 3, 2 and 13 weeks. The oldest have just turned 3 and 2 respectively so still small.

SIL is getting married about 150 miles away on a week day. We have been told no DCs at the wedding. Mil has a difficult family background and her half-brothers children will be going however - albeit they are older than ours. I susir t ultimately that SIL will also permit her friends to bring small babies. I understand that it is SIL's wedding but I find it pretty hurtful that our children (who are actually her closest relatives) are to be excluded.

My parents are extremely supportive of us and will normally drop anything to help us out. Mil has form for being very difficult and has been very unhelpful at difficult times - eg looked after putt DS on the day of my grandmother's funeral (250 miles away) but refused to rearrange plans so I had to get out cleaner to come and look after DS (then 1 year old) as she had to leave at 5pm. The whole thing was horribly stressful and I still find it very upsetting to think about.

My parents normally drop everything to help us but normally go on holiday with friends around the date of SIL's wedding. They therefore told me immediately that they may be able to look after our DCs but that - in this instance - they actually won't cancel their holiday if the group of friends can only manage that date (they are all retired so tend to go quite last minute to get the best deal) and we should therefore get a plan B. I immediately highlighted this to DH and his response was - (massively fucking entitled) oh it's my sister's wedding. Surely they won't go away. I said they very well could and he should highlight this to his family now as we may not have any childcare and ultimately I wouldn't be able to go. Plus, I could very well still be feeding youngest DC. Really the only option would be to take someone to look after the DCs on site and I didn't even know if that would be feasible. But I was highlighting it now so that there were no amateur dramatics near the wedding if I couldn't go

Communication within DH's family is pretty piss poor so nothing was done.

At the weekend, SIL, MIL and FIL came ti visit and stay the night. SIL said something in passing about my parents looking after the DC and I said that actually they maybe away and there wasn't really a plan B. I said that I could perhaps ask my DS's key worker from nursery to travel to the wedding and look after the DCs but we would need to get him accommodation. And, in any event, I was uncomfortable about being away from my youngest DC even if I could get someone look after all DC at our house.

SIL told me that there were no rooms left at the hotel but if I got the key worker, he could perhaps stay at a local B&B. That she was having to lay £150 a head per guest and she wanted me to be able to relax and enjoy myself and also keep costs down - hence why our DCs weren't invited. I said that the best solution maybe to ask the key worker. And, if I did, would SIL like the DCs to be brought to the church (waiting outside during the ceremony) for a few photos as they would be in the area. Totally up to her obviously but thought she might like it. She said yes, but she was banning children from the church. I said I quite understood as FIL's brother's children had made a terrible racket during ours in the church (MIL insisted they were invited) and you could even hear the noise on the wedding video. MIL said she couldn't remember that but I said (nicely) that it was on the video. I also said that if my parents were looking after the DCs, they had also offered to bring them to the church (to wait outside) and take them home (a big thing as a huge drive) after if she wanted photos.

So - it was all perfectly pleasant and I thought the childcare issue was clear. More importantly, there was actually communication like normal people. DH then went to work in the morning and the DCs and I went out with SIL and the PILs for brunch - all perfectly pleasant. Nothing else said. I was slightly nervous about going out as the PILs had been invited to visit DC3 a few days after she was born and had been very late (with no communication). I was upstairs feeding the baby and DH had said something to MIL about it. She had started shouting and bawling at DH saying it was my fault Confused and I was manipulating them and being very rude about me. I decided the best thing to do was pretend I hadn't heard and gloss over things. But, again, everything perfectly pleasant at brunch

DH then arrives home and asks me what I had been saying to his sister? I explained the position about childcare and said that I had highlighted this to him already but his approach seemed to have been that my parents would have to just cancel their holiday. That wasn't very constructive so I had highlighted things to SIL so she could make ab informed choice about allowing the DCs to attend in the vicinity and be looked after off site (pretty pissing annoying that DH could have mentioned it earlier so we could have got a room for them and carers at the hotel but now we couldn't) as ultimately if we couldn't get appropriate childcare, I wouldn't be able to go and with a wedding of 60 people, that would be noticeable.

DH then says that obviously I had a chip on my shoulder about FIL's neice making a racket during our wedding Confused and that my parents were manipulating things by refusing to cancel their holiday (the irony after my grandmother's funeral and various other times that they have dropped everything and driven 300 miles to help us out after the PILs have let us down!). I susir t he had spoken to MIL on the way home.

I am absolutely fed up with this. I am fed up of rather than everyone talking civilly about things (as I tried to do) and resolve problems in good time, MIL then approaches DH behind my back. If she or SIL had a problem, why not discuss it with me at the time or the next day? I am fed up (and I think this is the crux of it) if DH not simply explaining that all I am trying to do is sort out childcare for the DCs (as basically he seems to have opted out of it and my parents - his indentured servants obviously - are to drop everything AGAIN to help out). Why is DH not able to actually support me (his wife) and make it clear - politely - to his family that if you have your wedding hundreds of miles away and don't invite your very young nieces and nephews, then yes, childcare will be an issue and that is not bring "difficult". It's a matter of fact. And, actually, if your "keeping costs down" banning your brothers children whilst letting others attend is actually pretty fucking hurtful

I actually don't know what to do. I've said tinDH that I think that actually everyone should just be honest and communicate clearly with each other now. So if he thinks my patents are "selfish"
and "manipulative" (the breath taking cheek!) he should say to their faces. Further, I will contact SIL and MIL and ask them if they need me to clarify anything about what we discussed. Further, another option is for me to not attend and look after the DCs which I think maybe the best option all round

I'm actually so so sick of this. I don't want to see the PILs again and I don't particularly want to see SIL again.

Should I contact them? Should I just decline the wedding invitation? I want to make it clear why

I also need to sort out the DH issue too

OP posts:
salsamad · 24/02/2016 15:45

What about ringing your SIL and asking her outright If she could confirm that your DC can attend the wedding due to the childcare issues you and DH are experiencing, because aren't you right in thinking that they were initially invited at the beginning. By telephoning you speak directly to her, she can't fob you off or speak to your DH before she replies/answers you. I know emails and texts give a paper trail but they allow people time to formulate their lies responses.

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 15:50

I will insist that the DC stay in our room

I have just sent DH the following email

That's great that SIL has invited the children after all. Solves all the problems.

Just to let us put this to bed, can you clarify

  1. Why did you say that children under 8 weren't allowed on the premises?
  1. Why did you sister say she wanted a child free wedding?
  1. Why did your sister say she wanted to keep costs down - and therefore wasn't inviting our children?
  1. Why did you/your sister not immediately re-iterate the invitation when it was obvious we had child-care issues?

Delighted to acknowledge your great contribution and hope you'll make a similar acknowledgment of mine. I absolutely agree (as I have said to you and to your Mum and Dad too) that you are working very hard.

Re: the rest of the stuff, it's not relevant to this discussion (and - as we both know - not true) but I understand that you're having to face up to difficult feelings and emotions and that your default emotion is anger and to try and divert from the real issues, so I'll give you a pass on that. There's no point discussing it further.

See you tonight

Xx

I intend to be solicitousness personified from now on re: this shit. I am not getting into any debates about who said what, when.

Instead, I'm going to treat him as though he is slightly nuts (which he is) and keep saying in a very calming voice, "I understand this must be really hard for you and very upsetting". Before walking away and not engaging.

If he doesn't stop acting like actual fantasist in 30 days, I will reconsider my position

OP posts:
tribpot · 24/02/2016 15:50

I think these people are mad enough to say the dc are invited and then uninvite them again close to the time to try and force Gobbolino's parents to come to heel. I would keep things more neutral and tell DH to confirm you're all attending to SIL, check that the room is big enough for 2 adults + 3 children (unlikely I would have thought) and wait until the subject of who's looking after the kids during the wedding crops up again. There a (tragically) long time til September, this is merely the beginning.

I wouldn't do the 'this must be really hard for you' as I have visions of the pair of you trying to out-passive-aggressive each other with assurances that you understand that the other is mad and that they really just can't help their faulty memory, etc.

gleekster · 24/02/2016 15:51

How can you go to the wedding now though - you said upthread there were no family rooms available at the hotel.

I wouldn't go anyway they all sound bonkers. Cake

Noctilucent · 24/02/2016 15:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer · 24/02/2016 16:01

It will be like one of those medieval court trials of a pig that has eaten a hen in the Middle Ages

:D

The point of writing it down is so that it keeps it clarified in your own mind, not for trying a pig and turning it into a hanging side of bacon ... gaslighting is one hell of a bitch for mindfuckery.

Best of luck, this must have been one heck of a shock

PhoenixReisling · 24/02/2016 16:07

Would the hotel actually let the children stay in the room with you if it is not a family room? If I were you I would converse with them all via text/email because they lie, at least this way you have evidence so that they cannot claim that you are the drama lama.

I think that you have more issues than the wedding....you have real issues in your marriage.

Ohfourfoxache · 24/02/2016 16:12

Will be extremely interesting to see how he responds to that. Let's face it, he can't respond angrily without being completely batshit and illogical (even more so than he has been already).

The only sensible thing he could do now is back down and apologise. Anything else will just make him look like a dick.

Ohfourfoxache · 24/02/2016 16:13

Erm - there are other threads?

gatewalker · 24/02/2016 16:22

Gobbolino - Is it you who posted the thread about your husband and the keys? If so, then it only confirms to me that he is gaslighting and has a serious and deep-seated need to sabotage you.

I don't think there is any hope at all, and I'm sorry for that.

Duckdeamon · 24/02/2016 16:23

Jeez

NameChange30 · 24/02/2016 16:24

Noctil is talking a lot of sense. Especially this:
"The fact that he is trying to rewrite what has happened is heading towards emotional abuse territory."

Chinesealan · 24/02/2016 16:24

He will pick the parts from your email he feels he can challenge and ignore the rest.

Please don't go to this miserable wedding.

QueenofallIsee · 24/02/2016 16:27

Good Lord, your DH has been secretly a mentalist. I assume that being a straight forward and giving type, you have never seen this side as you are a very undemanding partner? Can you think of one other occasion whereby you have had to disagree and work through a problem like this, or is the tendency for you to capitulate/take the lead...if the latter, explains how he has hidden it from you

I bet you £100 that the next thing he says is that he feels as though he is 'on trial' and that you are 'managing him as you would at work'...my ex-partners favourite if I even attempted to rationalize his insane attempts to change history by being very clear or writing stuff down

BrucieTheShark · 24/02/2016 16:30

I'm not defending him in any way, but I can see how he might be conveniently misremembering conversations. Eg:

What he actually said:
DW can we have a chat about Dsis' wedding? She doesn't want any kids there. Mind you, it would be nice for you and I to have a weekend away and let our hair down. What do you think? Would your parents babysit?
You: Yes I'm sure they would, if they are free. Sounds ok if that's what you want.

What he wants to remember:
DW can we have a chat about DSis' wedding? My sister asked if we wanted the kids to go to the wedding. My opinion was that I would prefer to go without them or possibly maybe with DS only as I thought maybe three kids would be too much for your parents.
You: Yes I agree I'd prefer to go without them and have my parents babysit. I'll arrange it.

So his sister may really have asked how he felt about bringing the kids. But he used spin when speaking to you because of what he really wanted - a child-free knees up - with you tbf.

Once he went back to his sis and said you were both delighted to come without them, then maybe it snowballed for her and she became very sold on the idea of no kids. Doesn't really explain why she was a bit apologetic about cutting costs, or why she didn't re-iterate the invitation once the childcare issues became obvious. Perhaps she has told other couples it is child-free and knows they would be miffed to see yours there after all.

None of this an excuse, but perhaps some sort of an explanation. Communications can become chinese whispers so very quickly, especially when some people have no desire to really remember exactly what they said.

Personally I wouldn't go at this point, but then I would do almost anything to get out of a poxy wedding.

Ohfourfoxache · 24/02/2016 16:51

Gobbolino Sad

Love, you are married to a turd. A big, fat, stinking monstrosity of a shit. Who is abusive and gas lights and puts you last every.single.fucking.time.

You don't deserve this. Really you don't.

From your other threads, I know you're worried about mil especially having unsupervised contact. But tbh it doesn't sound as if she cares about the DC enough to make any sort of effort. Christ - this is the woman who decided not to see her dgc because she wanted her hair done. Yeah - this woman is REALLY going for grandmother of the year Hmm

You need to think very, very carefully. Do you really want to spend the next God knows how many years living like this? And it's not going to end when mil pops off - because fundamentally you have a problem with your cunt of a husband.

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 17:20

brucie - the reason that I know that couldn't have happened is that I wouldn't have wanted to leave the baby

On reflection, I do think that DH is keen for us to go on our own. He dies want us to have time in our own. Therefore I do t think he took it too much to heart that the DCs weren't invited (which is the actual fucking truth here). He just assumed that my parents would jump to it. He knows - to be fair - that they would look after them brilliantly so was happy with that and assumed that I would be too.

I may ask him whether the truth (of the lie) is that actually he just wanted us to go on our own?

OP posts:
Alibabsandthe40Musketeers · 24/02/2016 17:28

Gobbo I'd be really careful about putting words into his mouth. State facts, insist he explain himself.

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 17:28

trib - if the DC are un-uninvited, I won't be going

If there is an invite fircthecDC, then of course we will go. It would be rude not to. If we cNt stay there, then that is a fuck up by DH in terms of asking for rooms and that might preclude the DC and me from going. But that is DH's problem.

OP posts:
Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 17:33

And why this has been such a shock fur anyone thinking Hmm (which I may well do myself on reading), is that we rarely fall out. It all tends to be FIL related. We then reach an awkward impasse until the next blow up (about twice a year)

It was DH with the keys. Since then, we have had no other repeats and it was only about the keys so I never saw it as particularly sinister.

I fully expect the "don't cross examine me" comments etc. I saw that quite a lot from men at work if they thought a woman was being too "uppity" (depressing). If he says that, I'll just say, "if you can't provide a different explanation then these statements are fact".

OP posts:
mix56 · 24/02/2016 17:47

Just don't go, they will bitch about it, & your husband will moan.
Water off a ducks back. There is no reason for you to do back flips to make them happy, It is rude to have excluded your kids & accepted others, your parents are not available, they are not their unpaid skivvies. In comparison your MIL doesn't come anywhere near them. Your SIL is a conniving pain in the butt.
Just stop this now, if not your marriage may not survive. Tell DH you've HAD IT with their back stabbing & deforming all that was said to make a crisis out of nothing. You are not going & sod them.

AcrossthePond55 · 24/02/2016 17:57

You say there has only been the key incident (which I haven't AS'd) and some tussles re FiL. I may be way off base, but you may want to think about things a bit. Could it be possible that there has been more that has simply passed under your radar because DH wasn't caught out in the lie? Have there been occasions where similar has happened but you've ended up just thinking you were mistaken and shrugging it off because those occasions weren't a big deal like this wedding? Is this part of a pattern rather than occasional incidents? Because if it is, he's really gaslighting you, just as his narc parent(s) probably gaslighted him.

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 18:05

There have been times when I say I've told him about something - eg going out with other families and he says I've not. But I've always just presumed that hexes just tuned out. To be honest, I have friends who say their DHs do the same thing so never really saw it as very suspicious

OP posts:
DaemonPantalaemon · 24/02/2016 18:09

Gobbolino! I thought I recognised the name! You are the OP who posted for 5 pages about whether to ask money back from a cleaner who was not doing her job! I am sorry to read of the mind-fuckery you are going through, but I fear it will continue unless you work on your self-assertiveness. As you showed in that episode, you have a hard time speaking for yourself, and in your own interest, even when someone is walking all over you. If you were that non--assertive with your cleaner, I shudder to think of the ways in which your husband has walked all over you in your marriage. He really is a piece of work, and you deserve better.

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 18:15

Hmmm.....DH has arrived home quite sheepishly and is now reading to the DCs.

He has asked to discuss the options re: wedding after we have food. Apparently it is a decision we need to make jointly.

WTF is going on?

OP posts:
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