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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Seriously thinking about NC with DH's side of the family

467 replies

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 22/02/2016 02:46

This is going to be long but think I need to post the background

I've posted previously about SIL's wedding. I have 3 DCs - age 3, 2 and 13 weeks. The oldest have just turned 3 and 2 respectively so still small.

SIL is getting married about 150 miles away on a week day. We have been told no DCs at the wedding. Mil has a difficult family background and her half-brothers children will be going however - albeit they are older than ours. I susir t ultimately that SIL will also permit her friends to bring small babies. I understand that it is SIL's wedding but I find it pretty hurtful that our children (who are actually her closest relatives) are to be excluded.

My parents are extremely supportive of us and will normally drop anything to help us out. Mil has form for being very difficult and has been very unhelpful at difficult times - eg looked after putt DS on the day of my grandmother's funeral (250 miles away) but refused to rearrange plans so I had to get out cleaner to come and look after DS (then 1 year old) as she had to leave at 5pm. The whole thing was horribly stressful and I still find it very upsetting to think about.

My parents normally drop everything to help us but normally go on holiday with friends around the date of SIL's wedding. They therefore told me immediately that they may be able to look after our DCs but that - in this instance - they actually won't cancel their holiday if the group of friends can only manage that date (they are all retired so tend to go quite last minute to get the best deal) and we should therefore get a plan B. I immediately highlighted this to DH and his response was - (massively fucking entitled) oh it's my sister's wedding. Surely they won't go away. I said they very well could and he should highlight this to his family now as we may not have any childcare and ultimately I wouldn't be able to go. Plus, I could very well still be feeding youngest DC. Really the only option would be to take someone to look after the DCs on site and I didn't even know if that would be feasible. But I was highlighting it now so that there were no amateur dramatics near the wedding if I couldn't go

Communication within DH's family is pretty piss poor so nothing was done.

At the weekend, SIL, MIL and FIL came ti visit and stay the night. SIL said something in passing about my parents looking after the DC and I said that actually they maybe away and there wasn't really a plan B. I said that I could perhaps ask my DS's key worker from nursery to travel to the wedding and look after the DCs but we would need to get him accommodation. And, in any event, I was uncomfortable about being away from my youngest DC even if I could get someone look after all DC at our house.

SIL told me that there were no rooms left at the hotel but if I got the key worker, he could perhaps stay at a local B&B. That she was having to lay £150 a head per guest and she wanted me to be able to relax and enjoy myself and also keep costs down - hence why our DCs weren't invited. I said that the best solution maybe to ask the key worker. And, if I did, would SIL like the DCs to be brought to the church (waiting outside during the ceremony) for a few photos as they would be in the area. Totally up to her obviously but thought she might like it. She said yes, but she was banning children from the church. I said I quite understood as FIL's brother's children had made a terrible racket during ours in the church (MIL insisted they were invited) and you could even hear the noise on the wedding video. MIL said she couldn't remember that but I said (nicely) that it was on the video. I also said that if my parents were looking after the DCs, they had also offered to bring them to the church (to wait outside) and take them home (a big thing as a huge drive) after if she wanted photos.

So - it was all perfectly pleasant and I thought the childcare issue was clear. More importantly, there was actually communication like normal people. DH then went to work in the morning and the DCs and I went out with SIL and the PILs for brunch - all perfectly pleasant. Nothing else said. I was slightly nervous about going out as the PILs had been invited to visit DC3 a few days after she was born and had been very late (with no communication). I was upstairs feeding the baby and DH had said something to MIL about it. She had started shouting and bawling at DH saying it was my fault Confused and I was manipulating them and being very rude about me. I decided the best thing to do was pretend I hadn't heard and gloss over things. But, again, everything perfectly pleasant at brunch

DH then arrives home and asks me what I had been saying to his sister? I explained the position about childcare and said that I had highlighted this to him already but his approach seemed to have been that my parents would have to just cancel their holiday. That wasn't very constructive so I had highlighted things to SIL so she could make ab informed choice about allowing the DCs to attend in the vicinity and be looked after off site (pretty pissing annoying that DH could have mentioned it earlier so we could have got a room for them and carers at the hotel but now we couldn't) as ultimately if we couldn't get appropriate childcare, I wouldn't be able to go and with a wedding of 60 people, that would be noticeable.

DH then says that obviously I had a chip on my shoulder about FIL's neice making a racket during our wedding Confused and that my parents were manipulating things by refusing to cancel their holiday (the irony after my grandmother's funeral and various other times that they have dropped everything and driven 300 miles to help us out after the PILs have let us down!). I susir t he had spoken to MIL on the way home.

I am absolutely fed up with this. I am fed up of rather than everyone talking civilly about things (as I tried to do) and resolve problems in good time, MIL then approaches DH behind my back. If she or SIL had a problem, why not discuss it with me at the time or the next day? I am fed up (and I think this is the crux of it) if DH not simply explaining that all I am trying to do is sort out childcare for the DCs (as basically he seems to have opted out of it and my parents - his indentured servants obviously - are to drop everything AGAIN to help out). Why is DH not able to actually support me (his wife) and make it clear - politely - to his family that if you have your wedding hundreds of miles away and don't invite your very young nieces and nephews, then yes, childcare will be an issue and that is not bring "difficult". It's a matter of fact. And, actually, if your "keeping costs down" banning your brothers children whilst letting others attend is actually pretty fucking hurtful

I actually don't know what to do. I've said tinDH that I think that actually everyone should just be honest and communicate clearly with each other now. So if he thinks my patents are "selfish"
and "manipulative" (the breath taking cheek!) he should say to their faces. Further, I will contact SIL and MIL and ask them if they need me to clarify anything about what we discussed. Further, another option is for me to not attend and look after the DCs which I think maybe the best option all round

I'm actually so so sick of this. I don't want to see the PILs again and I don't particularly want to see SIL again.

Should I contact them? Should I just decline the wedding invitation? I want to make it clear why

I also need to sort out the DH issue too

OP posts:
MyFavouriteClintonisGeorge · 24/02/2016 14:34

Well, you could spend ages doing a schedule of all previous discussions etc to prove him wrong. But he won't accept it, and I think you would be dealing with a symptom, not the cause of his behaviour towards you.

It is an incredibly difficult situation for you, because if he is willing to stoop to this level of misrepresentation (or unwell/damaged enough to do it subconsciously) then what kind of relationship have you really got?

I would leave all wedding discussions for now, on the basis that you and DC will not be going. Let him deal, or not, with his family, you can't possibly 'win' with them if your DH is engulfed to this extent.

However, I would show someone else-parents, sibling, friend- the email so you are not on your own with it doubting your sanity.

Ohfourfoxache · 24/02/2016 14:43

Gas lighting. To a huge extent.

Also wondered about him bcc'g mil/sil in.

Gobbolino tbh I think, for now, you need to play along with it. Send a copy to your parents, they will provide support and a RL reality check I'm sure.

This really doesn't look good. He's lost the plot.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you need to get your ducks in a row - get statements and mortgage details together, savings documents, passports etc. You've been on here for a long time, you know what you need (being a lawyer you'll know anyway).

I'm NOT saying you're going to need it - rather than if you have everything you need then you won't need it.

Ohfourfoxache · 24/02/2016 14:45

Might also be a good idea to keep a written/dated record of conversations. But you probably know that too Thanks

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 14:50

I've just had to have a sit down with the baby -DS at nursery. DD1 napping thank God.

This is very worrying.

The problem is, even if I decided to leave (which would not doubt be derided as "emotional blackmail"), I've got 3 little children with this guy. I can't never speak to him again.

I would have to allow him and his family to have unsupervised access to the DC

This is very worrying.

I think the key thing here is not to be reactive. I've called his bluff on the invite.

I'm not going to react to the rest of the stuff in the email. Interestingly, he has completely failed to respond to my comments about finding sir ding time with MIL very difficult

OP posts:
Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 14:53

I'm going to collect paperwork etc together

In fact, his account were just done recently you for his tax return

I know from dealing with nutters at work that the key thing is not to react. Not to be drawn down rabbit holes debating wholly irrelevant allegations. To be totally calm and disinterested.

I need to think now.

OP posts:
MypocketsarelikeNarnia · 24/02/2016 14:54

Yeah Flowers

Ohfourfoxache · 24/02/2016 14:55

It's one thing dealing with shit at work; it's quite another dealing with it in your personal life. Generally you don't expect it to happen in your personal life.

Have you spoken to your parents? Sounds like you need a cuddle Thanks

AttilaTheMeerkat · 24/02/2016 14:57

"I would have to allow him and his family to have unsupervised access to the DC"

I would certainly formalise all access through the legal system.

Grandparents in this country have no automatic rights of access to see the grandchildren.

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 14:59

Ok. This may sound nuts but is it at all possible that DH wanted the 'child free wedding' so he could party like a 20 yr old and things got out of hand because you weren't happy with the children not being invited? That he thought you'd jump at the chance and so ask your folks to cancel and babysit?

I do wonder about this - he has said a few times that he would really like if we could go away together

These are his exact words

^My sister asked if we wanted the kids to go to the wedding. My opinion was that I would prefer to go without them or possibly maybe with DS only as I thought maybe three kids would be too much for your parents. I went to you. We discussed this. I then asked you what you thought and we discussed and both agreed to go back to SIL and say we were happy for the kids not to go which I did.

I am not annoyed with your parents despite your insistence I am!!

I merely said it was confusing the situation has changed. To which you went nuclear. None of your other accusations make any sense.^

OP posts:
Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 15:03

They don't have automatic rights attila but DH could let the DC see whomever he deemed fit during his access periods. I would have to get an order stopping that which could be very very difficult.

I have spoken to my parents who are Confused X 100

They think I did the right thing to call his bluff. They are also clearly trying not to cause a rift by saying this is "disappointing" but maybe "least said, soonest mended"

They also told me not to even dignify the other allegations with a response.

OP posts:
Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 15:06

I can see now why a lot of people are NC with MIL

OP posts:
tribpot · 24/02/2016 15:06

This is definitely not a 'least said soonest mended' situation but I do think keeping your powder dry is the right thing for now. Not least because he won't be expecting it.

Ohfourfoxache · 24/02/2016 15:07

Please don't take this the wrong way, but does he have some sort of cognitive impairment? I mean these aren't the words of anyone "normal" - either he is being manipulative or he has a problem.

Ohfourfoxache · 24/02/2016 15:08

Ooh trib I like that phrase - keeping your powder dry. I'm nicking that!

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 15:09

I agree I need to keep my powder dry

Why I am so totally shocked is that I can only see two options:

  1. Stay and accept this complete mentalness which will probably ultimately turn me mental; or
  1. Leave with all the chaos and upset that causes. Plus I still have to co-parent with him and know that the PILs are having unsupervised (by me) access to the DCs
OP posts:
tribpot · 24/02/2016 15:09

Not mine, fox - relates to gunpowder and may date to Oliver Cromwell :)

JessicasElephant · 24/02/2016 15:16

gobbo, don't forget in your deliberations that growing up in a tense, unhappy household is not good for DC. That's why it's (pretty much) never a sensible idea to stay 'for the sake of the kids'.

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 15:22

I'm wondering if I should say to DH, to let us put this to bed, can you explain:

  1. Why did you say that children under 8 weren't allowed on the premises?
  1. Why did you sister say she wanted s child free wedding?
  1. Why did your sister say she wanted to keep costs down - and therefore weren't inviting our children?
  1. Why did you/your sister not immediately re-iterate the invitation when it was obvious we had child-care issues?

But there's no point really is there? Because they will just all lie

OP posts:
Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 15:23

Also - I'm wondering if I contact SIL by email or text and accept the invitation?

OP posts:
Ohfourfoxache · 24/02/2016 15:28

They'll either lie or make out you're mad. The only reason to ask is if you want to just to gauge what sort of reaction you get, although you need to be prepared that it won't be the truth.

AcrossthePond55 · 24/02/2016 15:29

Yeah, well, maybe I wasn't nuts, then. He's certainly 're-imagining' conversations isn't he? It sort of reminds me of the way a three year old would behave if they want something or if they get caught out. Just make up a lie and stick to it and try to bluff your way out. He thinks if he says it often enough or loud enough you'll end up believing it. I don't have much experience with narcs but I can see how a child of a narc would do that in order to avoid the narc losing it all over them. And it does seem that your DH may be the child of a narc.

Honestly, I don't think I could live my life with someone who is apt to either twist my words or who tries to live in a world of 'plausible deniability' to suit himself. That kind of person is just too willing to throw others under the bus when times get rough. I'd feel like I was living on a tightrope.

Your legal training will stand you in good stead! You really need that analytical thinking right now. I'd tell you to see a solicitor, but you already have one 'on retainer', just look in the mirror!

Ohfourfoxache · 24/02/2016 15:29

Thanks trib - every day is a school day Grin

OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer · 24/02/2016 15:37

gobbo do ask those questions. Right now, you need to know what you're working with, just how deeply the denial / gaslighting and such like is going. This is a way of finding out.

Also I know you're a lawyer but it's different when it's your personal life - record everything in as much relevant detail with dates. What was said when, to whom.

This is a way of getting things clear in your own head (it's very very difficult when it's someone you trusted and whom you love who starts to gaslight you). It's also for the future.

Your husband has some very serious psychological problems under his logical exterior. Would you/he be open to marriage counselling? How will he react if you leave - could he turn nasty? He's not the man you thought he was, there's an entire side to him you didn't really realise existed.

I think you need to plan and hope for the best here, but also to plan for the worst. Just in case. Also planning for hte worst is difficult mentally, but it helps you adjust to what could happen (and hopefully won't).

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/02/2016 15:37

I'm not entering into discussions over who said what, when. It will be like one of those medieval court trials of a pig that has eaten a hen in the Middle Ages. There's all the apparatus of evidence and argument but it's meaningless.

Instead, I am just going to say to DH, "I know this must be really hard for you. You're having to face up to some difficult emotions about your family. That's why you're acting like this. I'm happy to discuss once you feel you can face it".

Now either he will take that at face value and do it or it will drive him nuts as basically I'm saying, "I'm on to you, mate"

OP posts:
hellsbellsmelons · 24/02/2016 15:45

Why are you accepting the invite now?
Do they suddenly have family rooms available at the hotel?