Don't know what to do with myself, on the verge of tears :(

[littlejolee]

Sorry in advance if this is a long post. I'm not even sure where to begin.

In the last few days, dp has accused me of lying/ hiding something from him because my libido has tanked and I've been crabby the last month (three weeks of viral bronchitis and nasty heavy painful period). Thursday night he said he had booked the next day off but was in a horrible mood and said that the nice thing he had planned was off.
DS goes to nursery on a Friday afternoon so as he was off we would have had a bit of baby free time. I'm a sahm and he said to me to just carry on with my day as usual. So I tried my best to carry on as normal, despite him still being very cold with me, turning the heating off when I have it on (to dry clothes and keep ds warm). Me and DS usually walk to nursery, so leave at 12 to get there for one giving plenty of time for DS to explore along the way.
Dp said I'll take him on the bus and I said OK I normally leave at half past (meaning whenever we get the bus, like if the weather is awful or he's woken up late from his morning nap, so not a very common occurrence). Dp turns around and questions how often I don't walk because I know when to leave to catch the bus.
So we all catch the bus to nursery and I usually pay them on a Tuesday (DS goes Tuesday and Friday) but had forgotten to last week, still had the money in a separate part of my purse. They said they needed payment for three sessions not two. Dp gets very angry, asks for a breakdown of all payments etc and to have a word with me in private. He then storms off and is livid, basically accused me of stealing the money. He was so angry I was crying in the street. (All I could think was the only time I've seen him this angry he got into a huge fist fight with his sister in front of me and DS in the middle of the night, they were both drunk, he put his around both our throats she called the police and he was arrested, this was just before Christmas. That whole incident put the fear of God into him -or so I thought--)
He tells me to wait where I am and storms off to the bank to get the money for nursery. When he comes back I go to follow him in and he tells me to wait where I am, won't let come into the nursery with him. I say no trying to stand up for myself and he storms away again. Came back a few minutes later and says he thinks I need to go and stay in my mum's for the weekend and sort my head out. I'm still in tears at this point and say fine but I'm taking DS with me to which he replied no.
We go home and I start up the stairs to pack a bag thinking I don't want to stay here right now anyway, I'll call my mum and dad and get DS from nursery etc, all kinds of crazy things going through my head.
Dp tells me to stay downstairs and make us both a drink, he goes through all the paperwork etc and tells me to get on with my day. Again I try my best.
We leave early to pick up DS from nursery because I needed to go shopping for food, and going past all the v day roses dp says don't think you're getting flowers (he's literally never bought me flowers before). I took today off because I was going to take you out for lunch while DS is in nursery and order flowers online for them to arrive on v day but none of that is happening now you've pissed me off.
So we get something for dinner, pick up DS and go home, give him a snack (he has tea in nursery) and put him to bed.
Make our dinner and watch something we've meaning to for a couple of days (lucha underground wrestling, cheesy but good fun). He's in a much nicer mood now and sits next to me on the couch offering to snuggle in so I do because it's comfy.
He headed off to bed and I said I'll be up in a bit as I wasn't ready to go to sleep yet. Dp is asleep when I go up.
He left me to sleep this morning and got up with DS, woke me up around 8 (about. 2 hours later than our usual wake up time). We have a fairly peaceful morning.
Then he asks if I mind if he meets up with his female friend (know each other for years, she has SO) and I said yes that's fine, because I would never stop him seeing his friends. He got a shower, put a smart shirt and pants on, generally tidied himself up quite a bit, polished shoes, aftershave etc, even though he was only going to a pub in the day to have a couple of drinks with his friend (though I do have some probably unfounded reservations about her, she has fancied him in the past, on his birthday he danced with her but not me and it's just the two of them going for a drink now).
He left about an hour ago, DS who is two was distraught as he thought he was going with him and obvs wasn't. I checked his fb and it was him inviting her out. She asked if everything was OK and he said everything is fine just missing people (his bf birthday soon, she thought he would just wait until then to catch up with everyone hence asking if everything was OK)/

I just don't know what to make of the whole situation or what to do with myself tbh.

Rrriiiiiggggghhhttt!

I 'get it' just fine, nana. Trust me.

Accepting that we each have our own views...

Really, if the majority is saying "Get out!", maybe it's because the pattern of behaviour and the OP's obvious distress rings loud bells

Even women who can't (yet) leave their own bad relationships don't want to see another woman suffering needlessly. Advice to leave may be unwelcome today, but a lifesaver tomorrow

All you LTB brigade are not helping women.

Of course they feel like that in the short term. FFS of course it isn't nice to hear these things. But are you so short sighted that you cannot see the damage you are doing by pandering to these women and talking nonsense about the "alternatives to leaving"? There is no alternative that ends well.

So the OP won't come back and post because we told her the truth, we didn't sugar coat it and we made it clear how much she and her son are suffering and would continue to suffer at the hands of this man.

If only OP could turn her back on this man as quickly as she turned her back on the harsh words of this thread. But in her warped reality living with a man that attempted to strangle her, emotionally abuses her and is possibly cheating on her is easier to cope with than taking on board our opinions. That is a desperate situation, and not one that any of us should be seen to be supporting.

I hope that the OP is still reading, even if she feels she cannot post, and if so, I want you to know that when you do feel ready to leave, don't feel that you can't start another thread and ask for support and advise to do so. All of us who have been where you are know how hard it is to leave, and we urge you to get out now because we ourselves wish we hadn't held on so long. I certainly do not judge you for not being able to leave yet, but please do not rule it out. Take it a step at a time. Do it when you are ready, but most importantly, DO IT.

Been following this and I must say, NanaNina, though I agree it is not up to us to get annoyed because someone in an abusive relationship doesn't leave on the instant, I do think you give them a false hope that they can turn these horrible situations around.

Very well said Marchate, LizKeen and Atenco. You've said what I was too angry to say.

I'm angry because I was told that I 'don't get it'. I'm angry because there is someone who is died because she listened to the voices that told her 'maybe he'll change' and 'give the relationship a chance'. Angry because she was encouraged not to listen to advice to leave right away, but to 'take her time'.

So yes, nana I fucking 'get it'. I get it all too well. Do you?

I can never understand people thinking that someone can just get up and leave a situation right there and then. It took me a long time to sort it out in my head and each time I was told to leave, the first thing I thought of was all the practical reasons as to why I couldn't at that stage.

So I stayed and people helped me get ready to leave, and I think that's what NanaNina means when she asks what help the OP needs.

That's a very altruistic interpretation of NanaNina's actions. What s/he actually does is minimise and claim everyone is over-reacting and say 'it's really okay to stay - that's what people do in real life and these men can change'. I can't think of a more damaging message to someone who is caught in the FOG of an abusive relationship. Oh and s/he writes an essay about him/herself on someone else's thread.

Slow handclap for NanaNina for another thread ruined and for Mumsnet for not taking the appropriate action.

OP. Things have taken an embarrassing turn on this thread. Leaving is terrifying. So many of us have done it and know the fears you are facing. We know this is your real life and it's not simple. But it usually is so much clearer from a distance than when it is in your face. Look for the threads that say 'I wish I'd never left my abusive ex'. I don't see them. Your OH's treatment of you is disgusting. There is a complete absence of respect. Please keep tuning in to your urge to leave and don't ignore it.

This thread is an embarrassment because yet again the support has turned to nastiness, bullying and name calling when the op has refused to comply with the LTB collective.

Let's think for a moment about the fact that the op is in an abusive controlling relationship, do you think she needs to swap that abuse for a load of abuse on the internet because she isn't complying to the mantra which says she should leave the bastard or face becoming a murder victim?

Do people really think that that is supportive? That shouting and accusing the op of loving the drama is the way to go? She already has a partner who does that, why in the name of God does anyone think that the op wants to hear that actually, she loves the drama from a load of women who claim to have her best interests at heart?

If this was someone you were talking to face to face would you be berating them for not leaving as soon as you said it was time to go?

Let's remember here that abuse is all about putting someone down, making them feel worthless, and by berating the op for not complying with what you say you are doing exactly that.

Yes, many on this thread have been in abusive relationships and have left. It is not up to any one of us to say who has experienced abuse and who hasn't. But actually, none of this is about you this is about an op who needs support to leave, not vitriol and abuse for not following the orders given to her by a load of faceless strangers on the Internet.

The arrogance of "I have been there therefore you should do as I say" is astounding.

I don't think people have berated the OP at all for not leaving...the opposite in fact. Posters have repeatedly said they understand it is hard but the alternative is so, SO much worse.

Really? "I think you know you are being abused and that is why you posted. But if you don't actually do anything about it then you are just attention seeking. You are in an abusive relationship. Your son will grow up with this influence in his life everyday. What would you think if you saw your adult son doing this to his partner?"

"Your partner is violent, please put your child first and get out."

those are not posts of support.

And I have read Nanna's posts, at no point has she said that the DP can change, but she asked the op given that she doesn't want to leave, what support would she want.

In an ideal world a woman would talk about her relationship where there is abuse and the penny would drop, she would leave and her life would begin afresh. But we all know that life doesn't work like that. This man is abusive, but chances are he didn't start out like that. And chances are that there are still good times even as part of the cycle of abuse.

No-one wants to see someone in an abusive relationship. 'We all aspire for people to want better for themselves than that. But equally, many abuse victims are not able to leave straight away. There isn't always support, and fears of the abuser having unsupervised access to their children for instance are real.

It is possible to support someone while living in an abusive relationship without that meaning you are condoning them living there. Calling an abuse victim an attention seeker or telling her she will be the next murder victim or that social services will be coming after her children is not going to make her suddenly sit up and take action.

Someone whose self esteem has been shattered to the point that they can even contemplate staying in a relationship with someone who tried to strangle them needs more support than that.

Far better to be supportive of the op and yes, to tell her that she can want better than this for herself, that it's ok not to want to be treated like this, and to speak to someone impartial but supportive

We can all want someone to leave now but we can't make them do it. We can however make them feel criticised, judged and unsupported.

And no, talk from people who have been there and managed to get out aren't helpful, even if they are well-meant. Someone with low self esteem to the point of accepting an abusive relationship may even think that they have failed because others have managed to do what they can't.

Abuse charities never tell the victim to leave now. Yes, the support is there if they want to, but the most important thing is to keep the conversation lines open. Something which won't happen if victims feel blamed for not doing as they're told. Something which ironically often is a part of the relationship they're in already.

I think wannaBe has made very valid points.

@wannabe standing ovation The only part I slightly disagree on is people sharing their past experiences of abuse and got out as sometimes people can gain strength from knowing it can be done and you can survive it.

We should always be mindful that someone living in a controlling and abuse relationship are seldom confident.

Iamdobby63 I agree that sharing a previous experience can let a victim see that others have previously been in similar situations and have managed to leave. But often it's about the way in which these experiences are shared, because they are still very personal to the individual who has experienced them.

Women need to be empowered to leave, and that's a difficult balance to strike if as a surviver all you want to do is shout "FGS if I can do it then so can you." :-)

I agree with a lot of what Nana said, and feel she got a rough time on here. But Wanna you pick out something one poster said, maybe two at a push, that isn't supportive and suddenly all the posters who advised OP to leave her partner are all lumped together as if they are all unsupportive and keen to berate the OP. It's unfair, when almost everyone here has the OP's interests at heart. I think most people understand why someone can't leave straight away.

I wish there was a like button for that post, wannaBe.

Wanna that is a good point about possibly feeling like a failure when hearing from other people who managed to leave. I never thought about it like that before but you are right.

It all starts going down hill when we resort to personally attacking a fellow poster rather than having a civilised discussion.

Like many others, even though my ex was nowhere near in the league of the OP's P, the day that someone told me I was allowed to LTB and that the idea of having made a promise to work to make a marriage work, even though said marriage needed an impossible amount of work was nonsense, was a big turning point for me.

No, I didn't LTB immediately. It took me many years, in fact, but then, I wasn't in any imminent danger. I did have the confidence to start kicking back and extending my life beyond those boundaries imposed by ex, though. I no longer sought his approval. I didn't instantly stop working on the relationship, but I did it more on my terms and I refused to only nurture friendships which he approved of.

Of course, my version of me wasn't satisfactory to him, which made it much easier for me to detach when I'd well and truly had enough of his nonsense.

It did get to a point where I no longer felt safe with him. No violence against me, but lots against objects and verbal abuse in amongst some downright creepy fuckery. In the first instance, I hatched an escape plan if ever I felt in imminent danger, then as soon as I could got away for good and refused to speak to him face to face ever again.

No way am I ever going to say to someone who has been attacked by their partner, don't you worry, love, just hang in there and he will one day be the nice partner you want and need because I know that is utter nonsense and, in some situations, dangerous advice. If I think someone needs to LTB (or if there's simply no point in staying with them) I will say so.

That said, it pisses me off no end when posters start saying things to possibly vulnerable posters along the lines of "you're never going to leave him" or "I don't know why you're here because you aren't going to listen to a word we say" or "you're loving the attention, aren't you?" FGS, if you think a poster is simply attention seeking, don't give them that attention and quietly report them, without fanfare, so MNHQ can check them out.

*No way am I ever going to say to someone who has been attacked by their partner, don't you worry, love, just hang in there and he will one day be the nice partner you want and need because I know that is utter nonsense and, in some situations, dangerous advice. If I think someone needs to LTB (or if there's simply no point in staying with them) I will say so.

That said, it pisses me off no end when posters start saying things to possibly vulnerable posters along the lines of "you're never going to leave him" or "I don't know why you're here because you aren't going to listen to a word we say" or "you're loving the attention, aren't you?" FGS, if you think a poster is simply attention seeking, don't give them that attention and quietly report them, without fanfare, so MNHQ can check them out.*

That exactly. But to note no one was saying 'hang in there' in this thread. Plus nothing wrong with saying LTB but as well as saying that we need to work with posters within their current limitations until they reach that point.

^ *bold fail!

I do think though that advice online must necessarily be different from RL advice.

I understand that therapists do not say LTB and I understand why, but we cannot act as therapists.

I understand that friends often do not say LTB, because if the victim decides to stay with her/his partner, they may well opt to end the friendship.

But I do think it is appropriate that someone, somewhere to say LTB when all the signs are there and that is the role of mumsnet.

I disagree; therapists can and do say to LTB when there's physical abuse that suggests the capacity to escalate to lethal force.

I've been in the OP's shoes.
Violence, degradation, fear. A long time ago now but the scars are still there.

I was young and had his children. I was told to LTB by people that I worked with because they saw the bruises etc.

It always puzzled me when these women said it to me. Were they going to put me up? Were they going to buy all my furniture that I would need? Would they protect from him once he knew where we were? No was the answer.

They were just women that I worked with.

I didn't know about WA. I honestly thought the only way out was if he was killed! That was unlikely. I was trapped. No money, no car.

I was lucky in the end. After a few years he had an affair and left. I felt like I'd won the lottery. I changed the locks immediately.

There were still years of abuse and I had to get a restraining order out on him because even though he'd left he still wanted to own me. Many times the police were called.

So saying LTB to these vulnerable women is not the right answer. It scares them. As Nana has said they need to come to that decision.
Not a group of wine on the Internet.

Women not wine. Although...

"It always puzzled me when these women said it to me. Were they going to put me up? Were they going to buy all my furniture that I would need? Would they protect from him once he knew where we were? No was the answer"

Well then maybe what is missing from this thread is advice about Women's refuges and how to leave safely.