Don't know what to do with myself, on the verge of tears :(

[littlejolee]

Sorry in advance if this is a long post. I'm not even sure where to begin.

In the last few days, dp has accused me of lying/ hiding something from him because my libido has tanked and I've been crabby the last month (three weeks of viral bronchitis and nasty heavy painful period). Thursday night he said he had booked the next day off but was in a horrible mood and said that the nice thing he had planned was off.
DS goes to nursery on a Friday afternoon so as he was off we would have had a bit of baby free time. I'm a sahm and he said to me to just carry on with my day as usual. So I tried my best to carry on as normal, despite him still being very cold with me, turning the heating off when I have it on (to dry clothes and keep ds warm). Me and DS usually walk to nursery, so leave at 12 to get there for one giving plenty of time for DS to explore along the way.
Dp said I'll take him on the bus and I said OK I normally leave at half past (meaning whenever we get the bus, like if the weather is awful or he's woken up late from his morning nap, so not a very common occurrence). Dp turns around and questions how often I don't walk because I know when to leave to catch the bus.
So we all catch the bus to nursery and I usually pay them on a Tuesday (DS goes Tuesday and Friday) but had forgotten to last week, still had the money in a separate part of my purse. They said they needed payment for three sessions not two. Dp gets very angry, asks for a breakdown of all payments etc and to have a word with me in private. He then storms off and is livid, basically accused me of stealing the money. He was so angry I was crying in the street. (All I could think was the only time I've seen him this angry he got into a huge fist fight with his sister in front of me and DS in the middle of the night, they were both drunk, he put his around both our throats she called the police and he was arrested, this was just before Christmas. That whole incident put the fear of God into him -or so I thought--)
He tells me to wait where I am and storms off to the bank to get the money for nursery. When he comes back I go to follow him in and he tells me to wait where I am, won't let come into the nursery with him. I say no trying to stand up for myself and he storms away again. Came back a few minutes later and says he thinks I need to go and stay in my mum's for the weekend and sort my head out. I'm still in tears at this point and say fine but I'm taking DS with me to which he replied no.
We go home and I start up the stairs to pack a bag thinking I don't want to stay here right now anyway, I'll call my mum and dad and get DS from nursery etc, all kinds of crazy things going through my head.
Dp tells me to stay downstairs and make us both a drink, he goes through all the paperwork etc and tells me to get on with my day. Again I try my best.
We leave early to pick up DS from nursery because I needed to go shopping for food, and going past all the v day roses dp says don't think you're getting flowers (he's literally never bought me flowers before). I took today off because I was going to take you out for lunch while DS is in nursery and order flowers online for them to arrive on v day but none of that is happening now you've pissed me off.
So we get something for dinner, pick up DS and go home, give him a snack (he has tea in nursery) and put him to bed.
Make our dinner and watch something we've meaning to for a couple of days (lucha underground wrestling, cheesy but good fun). He's in a much nicer mood now and sits next to me on the couch offering to snuggle in so I do because it's comfy.
He headed off to bed and I said I'll be up in a bit as I wasn't ready to go to sleep yet. Dp is asleep when I go up.
He left me to sleep this morning and got up with DS, woke me up around 8 (about. 2 hours later than our usual wake up time). We have a fairly peaceful morning.
Then he asks if I mind if he meets up with his female friend (know each other for years, she has SO) and I said yes that's fine, because I would never stop him seeing his friends. He got a shower, put a smart shirt and pants on, generally tidied himself up quite a bit, polished shoes, aftershave etc, even though he was only going to a pub in the day to have a couple of drinks with his friend (though I do have some probably unfounded reservations about her, she has fancied him in the past, on his birthday he danced with her but not me and it's just the two of them going for a drink now).
He left about an hour ago, DS who is two was distraught as he thought he was going with him and obvs wasn't. I checked his fb and it was him inviting her out. She asked if everything was OK and he said everything is fine just missing people (his bf birthday soon, she thought he would just wait until then to catch up with everyone hence asking if everything was OK)/

I just don't know what to make of the whole situation or what to do with myself tbh.

Good point, diplomatically made.

That was to LizKeen

I do kind of get what you are trying to say NanaNina but you do have to admit that staying with an abuser will categorically harm all those in contact with them.

Yes these victims need support, but ultimately their live will only start to really improve, the health of the children too when they are out of the poisonous atmosphere.

It's so hard to support someone who isn't making the best choice for themselves or for children when the answer really is cut and dried when you know the abuser will only ever get worse. Those of us who have left remember how impossible we thought it was to leave, but the shocking realisation of actually how small that first step was and how immeasurably better life was and so quickly too.

The numbers of times the average woman is assaulted is said to be 35. It takes on average 8 attempts at leaving. Some never make it. 2 women a week die.

The longer a victim stays in an abusive relationship, the greater the chances she will be seriously hurt or killed. In any event, the emotional damage is something tha will never heal without therapy.

This is why we all say leave, maybe one time we'll shorten the time it takes for a victim to get out. You mean well NanaNina, so do we. We're all on the same side.

Omg. Get out. Please.

LizKeen I am not balking at your comments because I don't agree with them, that would be disagreeing with your opinion. I am taking issue with you because you are making allegations about what I have said on other threads that aren't true. Your opinion on the reason why OPs PM me is invalid as far as I'm concerned because, as I pointed out before, you cannot have any knowledge of the content of PMs between OPs and myself.

No I agree I know nothing of your experiences and have therefore made no comment. You claim my voice on line is damaging - again how can you know that?

Anyway the OP has gone and I think that says it all. Over and out.

The very fact that you act so incredulous about the fact that the OP is no longer posting makes me think your understanding of these issues is not very deep.

I won't discuss this further with someone who is clearly so adamant that they are right. Continue on with your damaging comments. I will continue to tell women they are worth so much more.

1] The nice things was never going to happen, he is using it as stick to beat you with, same with the v day stuff
2] he expect sex when you are poorly
3] he objects to you getting the bus to nursery with your son
4] accuses you of stealing YOUR money
5] he tried to strangle you & his sister
6] he keeps you from your son, who needs you
7] he's had the opportunity to sleep with her and turned her down citing me (as in no I'm not single). - He's telling you to remember that at any time, he has the opportunity & the means to cheat on you.

he was visibly angry in nursery reception area but I didn't cry until we were outside That doesn't matter, honey. If they saw his anger towards you, they will be trained to flag this for DV.

I don't want to leave though, I just want him to be the sweet supportive and caring man I know he can be Can he? It's an act! He isn't sweet & caring, and while you are waiting for that man to show up, someone will notice & file a report. This report may well flag that your ds is in a dangerous environment, because he lives with a volatile man, SS will investigate.

When he grabbed me he said he mistook me for his sister because it was dark Sorry op, this is bollox! he is a violent drunk bully, and his sister sounds like too. That's one hell of a family you have there!

thinking I could start a discussion about how to support women who are suffering DV who are not, for whatever reason going to leave the abuser How would you do that? Please tell us...

What will you say to her the next time she is hospital because he has escalated?
Do you even know what the escalation from strangulation is? Death. To be blunt.
How will you support op when her child has been taken away because he is being subjected to domestic violence?

I get very worried when posters come on trying to "support" victims to stay in abusive relationships. Abusers don't change while in relationships, they rarely changed after.

Why are you advocating that op continues to get abused?

Or do you think she can change him? If so, how?

Genuinely interested.

NanaNina It's one o'clock in the morning, op has probably gone to bed.

To suggest that she has left because of other posters is something you cannot categorically state, and to do so is an attempt to shut posters up, which is controlling!

You have problems with the way others post & pull them up on it. They have problems with the way you post & pull you up on it...yet you are the only one trying to convince others that they have scared op off. Stop it.

This kind of petty squabbling & thread derailing scares ops off, nothing else.

OP please make firm plans to leave this abusive selfish arses asap! I am the child of dv and I can assure you its miserable and has affected my life long term. I am 43, have been single for 13 years by choice (I left ex as he cheated but frankly I have very little faith in men, every man in my life has let me down), I still remember being terrified of my father coming in from work every day not knowing if he'd be in a good mood or not. Ditto leaving my room in the mornings and trying to avoid until he left for work if possible. The fear, frustration and anger at seeing my mother constantly abused is still with me - and I left home at 18. He also abused my sister and I. Yet to the outside world he was charming, successful and devoted.

As for nananina I won't engage in her 'discussion' enough to say every time I see her name on a thread I feel anger and despair as I know whatever she writes will be ignorant, dated, dangerous nonsense.

I'm horrified that your partner and his sister started a very physical fight around your ill child at 4 a.m, to the extent that you also got attacked. You can't keep risking your child like this.

Nana no one should EVER stay with an abuser. EVER! IF they want to try and 'save their marriage' they should leave or kick the abuser out and then demand that IF the abuser wants to 'save the marriage' that the abuser get counseling and get their shit together whilst living away.

As far as supporting a woman who choses to stay in an abusive relationship, the support they need is to be constantly and compassionately reminded that they need to get out. What other support is there? To put up with it? To 'not upset him'? To live in a constant state of fear? To be told that it's 'ok' to stay? It isn't 'ok'.

The OP has PMed me and I have her permission to say so on this thread. However I don't intend to divulge the nature of our conversations other than to say that she was most definitely put off by all the posts telling her to leave straight away. I would also point out differentnameforthis that I did not categorically state that the OP had left the thread as a way of shutting up posters which you claim was controlling. I simply said she'd left the thread which said it all. I can't be blamed for your misinterpretation of my comment. Neither have I advocated that the OP continues to get abused - this is yet another allegation without any foundation in fact. I think some posters just make things up as they go along.

Baconymum you are very rude and I don't intend to defend myself. I think your comments says far more about you than it does about me.

I do appreciate that some posters will have been brought up in abusive households as children and been in abusive relationships and this is obviously going to colour their judgement. I am not ever advising women to stay in abusive relationships, no matter how many times this allegation is made against me. This allegation seems to be made because I am not joining in with LTB NOW.

I have been a social worker for 30 years and worked for WA since 1979 albeit just working on the phone lines now because of a long term health condition. I have seen many situations of DV and as a social worker, have been instrumental in seeking the court's permission to remove children from such situations as it is well documented that DV causes immense emotional harm to a child.

As a WA worker I have as I've already said waited in my car in cold dark streets while a woman and her children flee from a violent man. Refuges are crowded and noisy but women don't have to live in fear of violence.

I happen to believe that when we are thinking of making big changes in our lives, that change comes from within, not because others have told us what we should do. OK some things might strike a chord and help someone on their way but post after post of various forms of LTB don't help and in fact (as in this case) have stopped the OP from posting. Many times I have arranged a pick up for woman to take her to a Refuge and she's changed her mind. That is her choice. It isn't for me or anyone else to tell her what she must do unless the safety of a child is concerned which sadly it often is.

This time last year a woman posted at length about her abusive r/ship and some of us supported her (that doesn't mean telling her to stay) it meant reading the e mails she sent about what was happening and commenting, it meant giving practical advice about lawyers, housing, Finance, WA etc etc. There was a small group of us that formed an e mail group that the OP set up and we were in contact on a daily basis. Some in the group recommended books on abusive r/ship which she found informative. She finally left with her children in November of last year, so almost a year went by. We are still in touch and she says she couldn't have done it without our support.

I think what I'm trying to say is it isn't helpful to tell women to LTV NOW - you were all telling the OP on this thread to go to her mother's and none of you had a clue how far away she lived and more importantly whether the OP and the child would have been welcome. It isn't possibly usually (either practically or emotionally) to up and leave, and dare I saw sometimes things can change for the better. But if not, women will do things in their own time, in their own way, with support from RL friends and hopefully from the internet. But I'm not holding my breath.

Oh FFS. Has the Mumsnet moderator fallen asleep or what?

Kitty agreed!

Nana I stand by what I said.

Hmmm, being realistic isn't it better to continue communicating and supporting someone in this situation rather than inadvertently alienating them? People can't be forced to leave, none of us have that control, they are the ones who have to reach that point where they realise their situation is never going to get any better.

Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong in suggesting it and it's absolutely right to make it clear that what they are experiencing is not acceptable or right.

Better to work with people within their limitations than against. IMHO

*now runs to hide because doing just that had my head bitten off in another thread!

Not many of us who have experience of domestic violence at first hand will have left the minute we realised we were being abused.

The idea of leaving is so overwhelmingly terrifying it strikes the biggest blackest most evil pit of fear into our very core.

We need to know that we have to leave, we need to hear it won't change - it will be the last thing we want to hear, he last thing we want to believe, but we have to hear it. Eventually we might understand.

We need to know the damage its doing to us, we need to know it's hurting and harming our children.

Even when we hear all this, we STILL are too terrified to leave.

Does that give anyone any idea of what it is to be trapped, isolated with your potential killer and STILL you're too frightened to take that step to freedom.

Yes, we should never advise any victim to stay, but while they are drawing breath, garnering strength and coming to terms facing the most mortal fear ever faced.

I was "lucky" my abuser gave me an ultimatum to behave, do what I was told, or he would leave. I didn't do what I was told.

If I can describe my fear at him going, how I saw it in my mind, perhaps it will help others see the effort it takes to be free..

I'm standing in a beach, holding onto a post which represents the truth, that he'll do anything to hurt me, control me etc, that he'd strip me of my only friend in the world to make me miserable and alone.

Standing on that beach, holding that post watching an enormous tidal wave coming toward me. Hundreds of feet high, a wall of water. I knew it would hit and pass, and the other side was the other side, hopefully smooth water.

At the time my throat literally ached with the pain of a thousand unshed tears, it was physically excruciating.

He left, the wave crashed over me, I hung onto the truth, that he he to go for me to live. The pin in my throat went. Eventually I allowed myself to cry. That was hard, as I didn't feel I should be crying at the loss of someone so awful. But crying is showing myself kindness.

In 3 days my son showed signs of being happier, stronger and has never looked back.

I lost my family in all this too, they liked it when I was oppressed apparently.

Looking back, leaving was the hung I should have done a million times sooner. Not 10 years later. Monumentally stupid. That is how I felt. I even stopped posting in relationships for a while, as after all, wtf did I know? I supported others on the EA thread. Some in, some out.

We need support when we're abused, during and after.

Yes we should always tell an op to LTB, but hold their hand until their ready, it may take time, but if we do it right, they'll feel supported and strengthened enough to leave. If there's lots of shouting, and they are not ready, the victim can retreat and go back under the radar.

I know NN and I may have had differing opinions on some threads, but I do get what she's trying to say.

The op is feeling embattled, by posters on this thread. This is not in anyone's best interests. Let's support her and get her back here so she knows it's ok, not ideal, but she's not alone and can ask questions about how leaving will be of people who know what the other side looks like.

Nananina again? I hope other women who may be in similar situations to the OP don't take heed of her rambling minimisation of DV albeit as usual much of her rambling is taken up by self indulgent recollections of being a social worker and working in women's aid. Thankfully the world of frontline child protection is safe now she has retired.

Anyway, I just wanted to add that as an OP myself a few years ago I had a unanimous LTB and lots of harsh, true words spoken to me. I left the thread, because I had heard what I knew I would hear and took a few weeks to gear up to leaving and that's what I ultimately did. God knows how long I would have stayed if I hadn't been bolstered by those comments, they helped me change my life.

I do appreciate that some posters will have been brought up in abusive households as children and been in abusive relationships and this is obviously going to colour their judgement.

It does a bit more than colour our fucking judgement. What a patronising and stupid thing to say.

Just one person who has been through it has more insight and knowledge about these situations than all the textbooks you have read put together.

I will say it again, IRL a non judgmental and supportive role, keeping lines of communication open, and letting the victim come to their decisions themselves is the appropriate form of support.

But online, on an anonymous forum there just is no place for that. We get a short space of time before the OP shuts down and will not hear us, and in that space of time she needs to hear, from multiple people, that what she is suffering is NOT normal, WILL NOT change, WILL NOT get better. She needs to be told that her children deserve better and that there is a life beyond this abuse. We cannot check on her as we don't know her address, we cannot befriend her and provide RL support.

Most OP's come on here with this hope that we will silence the niggle in the back of their head. That we will tell them relationships are hard work, that men are different to women and require our patience and understanding, that he will change if only she doesn't provoke him. They want us to confirm all the shit their partner has been drilling into them for god knows how long.

So when they hear that the niggle is right, that this isn't OK, that it will get worse and their kids are suffering, they get scared, and they want to suppress that niggle even more, and then comes along some "helpful" poster who tells them what they want to fucking hear, and what happens? They cling on to that and discount the rest, because that is familiar and that is safe, and that doesn't involve packing bags and going out into the cold and asking to stay with family.

But all that does is prolong the hurt, prolong the danger and keeps the OP in the same position. Yes, the lines of communication may be open, but what use are receiving PMs from a poster who could be beaten to a pulp tonight by her husband? Its nothing. Its not helping.

There can only be one message, and that is get out. End it.

Once a poster reaches the point where they want to do that, then we can support, advise and hand hold until they are away. It happens all the time on here. We are not void of that ability. But there is a time for it, and it is not on threads like this.

Liz Look

Well bloody said.

"But all that does is prolong the hurt, prolong the danger and keeps the OP in the same position." Exactly.

And yes I am always frustrated by people who claim to be experts who haven't actually experienced a situation themselves but are more concerned with virtue signalling!

Sigh. Well I'm sure OP won't be back now that NanaNina has the situation well in hand.

Yes, that is sarcasm.

Iamdobby don't run away because you're having your head bitten off -you are talking sense. To be honest I don't care about the insults that are heaped on me - water off a duck's back. And when all's said and done at least I know that the OP felt she could PM me with more detail and confirm that being told she must leave straight away stopped her posting.

I found your post very moving Hissy and so glad you were able to break free, no matter how long it took. It would be good if we could support women instead of just telling them to LTB but it's tricky on the internet. I don't think there's any chance of the OP coming back on this thread because she has been embattled on this thread, as have so many others.

Lookatyourwatch I imagine you thought your comment about the "Worls of Child Protection" being safe now I'd retired was quite witty but in actual fact it shows your ignorance, as there has never been a worse time in Children's Services, because of overwhelming workloads, shortage of social workers, lack of funding etc.

Baconymum I am not claiming to be an expert and it so happens that I have experienced domestic violence. I was a young girl of 22 and had a boyfriend who got violent when drunk - then I got pregnant and it was in the days when it was a scandal to be pregnant and not married. But I told him I wouldn't marry him (we were sitting in his van outside my parent's house where I was living) and he tried to strangle me. The neighbours called the police and they arrested him but just cautioned him. My parents were happy for me to live there with my baby, and I did for 3 months after my son was born, but I didn't think it fair to them as they were in their 60s so I married the father. And he did some pretty awful things to me (jumped all over me in big boots when I had flu and was in bed, punched me in the face several times, kicked me, threw his dinner up the wall, but the worst thing of all was shouting on a summer afternoon outside that I was a dirty whore. It was a small village and I'd grown up there and people were in their gardens. I felt so ashamed. He had a thing about guns and had a starter pistol and used to fire it behind me which scared me stiff. One day he took our son (who was 3) in the car when he was drunk and I was terrified. Thankfully he brought him back and that decided me - I was leaving. I had already asked my friend if I could stay with her and she agreed. I was later divorced and just wished that I'd never married him but at least I got away by the time my son was 3.

I'm sure I'll be accused of rambling (and god knows what other insults) but I do get so sick of the way some of you lot jump to conclusions when you don't know the facts.

AcrossthePond you don't get it do you. The OP won't come back because she didn't like being told that she must leave straight away. Nothing to do with me. She PMed me and told me that and this is not the first time this has happened. All you LTB brigade are not helping women.