DH completely undermined me - how to deal?

[fiestabelle1]

Dd misbehaving at swimming, told several times that if she didnt behave no crisps from cafe afterwards. She continues, so I say right, no crisps. Cue whining going on and on as is her way. She says "ill just ask dad to get them then". I say to Dh dont buy her crisps. He makes a joke of it, cuddles her and then proceeds to buy them for her. Dd then makes a face at me. I was furious...walked out of cafe and bk to car. Dd comes out to car and waves crisps in my face. I am so upaet by this. Dh does little to support me with kids and I feel like an utter fool in front of DD. DH is very big on discipline etc but is actually pretty ineffectual...ie shouty but rarely follows through. Aware this incident is just the final straw but i dont know where to go from here?

StableYard that is very familiar...some of it is lack of confidence I think on his part. He knows what result he wants but diesnt know how to get there. Im the same but I put in some effort in finding out.

Once Ive calmed down we need to have a conversation about this. We are so not on the same page re parenting but right now I am so angry with him I dont think I would be able to get across my points. How do I get past his default defensive response to any comments re his parenting?

Once Ive calmed down we need to have a conversation about this. We are so not on the same page re parenting but right now I am so angry with him I dont think I would be able to get across my points. How do I get past his default defensive response to any comments re his parenting?

I think not knowing how to do it isn't an excuse.
Dh didn't know how to do it. But he never blatantly ignore me and he listened and looked at what I was doing, taking his cues from me.
So by the time the dds were that age, we were signing by the same hymn.

YY too to 'Ok so what are YOU going to do about it?'

I would also leave him with his dcs on his own for several weekends so he HAS To deal with the cheekyness etc..

Tbh if any of my dds had behaved the way your dd has, I would have blown my top off. That is such a disrespectful attitude towards you. (and him towards you too)

Tbh it's not about a difference in parenting imo. It's a total lack of resoect as if you have to explain everything you are asking him so that he can decide if it's worth doing it or not.
Does he not trust you??

Your daughter knew full well that if she asked her dad then he would give her what she wanted.

The face dd pulled at you when she knew she had got her own way would of made my blood boil tbh!

I would of then snatched the crisps, threw them in the nearest bin and told her and dh very sternley that when i say no i mean no!

I would also then tell dd that if she misbehaves next week in swimming then it will be the very last time she has a swimming lesson. Then if she does misbehave then you follow it through and cancel the lessons at the main desk with her at the side of you.

Children learn extremely quickly to do as they are told first time if their parent follows through every consequence given to them.

A question to ask yourself OP - when dh overruled you to your face and dd waved them in your face (little madam!) - what was it that made you feel your only option was back down, give in to them both and go away to be upset alone? That to me says the most. You have very little confidence. Is that a pattern with dh?

I'm afraid I would have taken the crisps right out of dd's hand and binned them. Dh overruled you to your face - I would have overruled him straight back, for no other reason than dd needs to see very clearly that mum will never stand for anyone treating her with disrespect, and talked with dh later about how utterly disrespectful, belittling and colluding that was. Why should he expect to waltz all over your boundaries like that?

I agree with the pp who said no swimming for a while; dd needs a very clear message that you are not the weak point in the family and not taking this from her. At all. And I'd have a stern word with her about how unpleasant she sounded and looked when she waved that bag of crisps in your face, and how one upmanship over people you love is a very ugly thing, and I'd find a couple of jobs today that she needs to do to earn her way back into your good books.

If you give the impression of being hurt and cowed it bolsters her confidence and lack of respect, you need to fake that if necessary. And I'm afraid to me it would be bugger how dh feels about this. He's supposed to be your partner and he owes you a massive apology.

Well first of all I wouldn't punish with food or goods as dh is not to be trusted to back you up. I would discuss what happened with dd as you are an adult and her parent and tell her you are fully aware what happenened.
I'm surprised though that a child pulling faces or waving crisps can upset you so much. She is a child. Don't let her control you.
Sounds to me she is being manipulative. Ask who she learned that from?
What exactly did she do to misbehave at swimming? it's easy to resort to escalating with threats of no crisps. I would have talked it through with her and said if it continues then I would assume she doesn't want to swimming.
You are being played by a child. It's your fault always.

Cross post with Save

Think of a car park full of livid MNetters binning crisps by the handful on your behalf OP

I'd tell him the truth - he is fucking his own child up because her making him feel good is his priority, and not making her a likeable, responsible adult when she leaves home. He is also damaging her relationship with her own mother, because she loses respect for you and you lose affection for her, and finally, he is threatening your marriage, which should be a huge issue for him in its own right but is also something that threatens the children's wellbeing, too. All because he likes his DD giving him cuddles and snuggles instead of childhood hissy fits. To be blunt, he's being selfish and pathetic.

Please don't be angry with her - I know it's impossible to feel warm and fuzzy when your kid does what she is, but he is letting her down far, far more than anyone else in this situation. She's not getting the help all kids need in managing their own behaviour and emotions, and in learning nasty behaviour has consequences - especially when aimed at someone with authority over you, if we're talking practicalities rather than ethics! Finally, it's part of the problem that he is damaging her bond with you with this bullshit. That's very toxic for her. You're her mum and she is still very small.

I don't think his defensiveness is actually your problem at this point. It sounds as though past nicey gentle approaches from you have changed fuck all. So be blunt. Tell him he is fucking up his daughter because he enjoys the ego strokes of being hero Daddy more than he loves her - none of us like being the bad guy and disciplining but we love our kids more than we like feeling good - that he is fucking up her relationship with you by making you so easily dismissed and creating contempt on her side and resentment on yours - and that he is fucking up the marriage because of his behaviour, too. He needs to work out what matters most: his ego, or his family.

This behaviour isn't because he is weak. It's because he is selfish.

In your shoes I would be insisting that:

1. she is called down to talk to you both, but he does the actual talking. He needs to say he had no idea she was deliberately being so horrible to Mummy, that she is very shocked and very sad and disappointed to know she could do that, and that he has decided she is to have no swimming or other treats for the next two weeks, and if she does not start treating you with more respect, they will not start until she does. He also needs to say she is on a total screen ban until she gives you a courteous apology.

2. He has to do a parenting course. No ifs, buts or ands. He is fucking your kids up.

You have to go in guns blazing, IMO, focusing on how badly he is letting your DD down - not you, as you are a grown woman and can look after your own interests and can always, if things get bad enough, leave - but the child who is totally dependant upon you both for literally everything that leads her to a happy, independent adult life. He is failing her. He can try to gussy it up however he likes, but it's putting lipstick on a pig. The truth is, he enjoys feeling like he's her special Daddy and she's his special girl. And being the bad guy as he says no/calls her on bad behaviour doesn't reward him emotionally. He's exacting his emotional needs from her and at her expense and welfare. That's really, really shitty behaviour and it has to stop.

Your dd is not the one to be angry with - she's following dad's lead. His utter lack of respect is bound to rub off on them. But, if push came to shove they would always go o the fairer parent. She might try and get her way but ultimately you are the normal consistant force in her life and she will trust you in a way she will never trust her shouty, inappropriate father. She's just using him to get what she wants. So he lost by his behaviour and you won (if he wants to see it as you vs him). Sad, but he really should be parenting with you, not against you. And you should never feel so isolated in your own home that you have to hide in the bedroom to cry.

you are making excuses for him

using that age-old and well-worn script "he is so shit because he doesn't know how to do it"

fuck that shit

he is a grown man who is setting all the family up for some very tough times in the future. And tbh, you lockign yourself away in the bedroom and sulking is just compounding them

today's lesson for dd is as follows...

1. get dad to collude in taking piss out of mum
2. get mum and dad pitted against each other so I get my own way both about the misbehaviour at swimming and the crisps
3. mum cries over me so I have power over her
4. both mum and dad are ineffective parents and ineffective parents so I get to do what I like. When I escalate it which I inevitably will as teenage years approach the patterns will be set
5. women get blamed for everything and they have to take it on the chin

Good work, you two

I'd be ragging. Why should you always be bad cop? That's just not on. He needs to back you up.

Ask your dh what he is going to do to put this right. He should be the one to tell her that he was wrong to let her have the crisps and that won't happen again.

He should be the one to tell her that there will be a sanction for misbehaving in the pool and another one for being so rude to her mother.

Then you need to decide whether you want to continue to live like this. He is the cause of these problems and they won't change unless he does.

Excellent post sleeponeday

Good post from sleeponeday. If you're not ready to act on this yet, go out. In fact I would go out for the day anyway and let him do the actual parenting instead of just interfering unhelpfully.

OP, your kids' dad is being a totally lazy parent.
You sounds like you are the opposite & your kids are gonna RESPECT you a lot more than they will their dad.
Go for a walk, leave them to it did the PM. Do something for YOU & later on, have a chat about all of this with your partner.

I wonder how many people actually change when someone asks them to? In my experience, it doesn't happen op. This is more about his issue with control than anything else. It's not his parenting style in as much as his wanting to control you style. He's using his child to get at you.

I would just refuse to let him do it. For example, he gets the crisps. You instantly take them away and say 'Daddy made a mistake. I said no, so you are not having them.' If he wants to then shout in public he can go ahead. It might make it clearer to you and those around you what the real problem is.

Unfortunately, in my experience it usually means an escalation of controlling behaviour. He'll then turn it up a notch so you 'learn' to respect his power. If this is how things are, then talking to him will only turn into a row and he will escalate his tactics of control. Which is probably why you felt unable to take the crisps away - you fear his response.

Agree with sleeponeday

I would have made DH take the crisps back. I would have said "no daddy I have already said no, she is a NOT allowed crisps" and I would have made my DD explain exactly why she was not allowed to have them so that both she and DH knew what was happening. I am a firm believer in making our dd vocalise and take ownership of her bad behaviour, if she won't I will tell her (and in this instance DH) exactly why she wasn't allowed crisps. (I also agree no crisps was a pretty weak punishment in this case) We have had this a couple of times at our house. We now have regular chats about discipline our DD and ensuring we are both on the same page and apply the same techniques (we talk regularly because I am aware that the methods of discipline may need to change the older she gets)

I would be having a very firm conversation about the needs for boundaries and consistency and that undermining one another is unfair to everyone and simply can not happen. You too have to be united on the same page.

I think it also worth noting that if she regularly plays up at swimming lessons your child is the one that the tutor, other kids and other parents will all detest.

There is always one. Don't let it be your kid. She is ruining the experience for everyone else that attends those lessons too.

Let him take her swimming in future, then he can deal with all the behaviour however he pleases. And you can stay home with a cuppa.

I would be furious

I would suggest that disaplin is now in his hands, you will allow him to sort out any issues as he clearly doesn't undetrpin your ideals

I haven't RTFT but if that was my son I would of taken the crisp off of him and either bin them or give them to someone else. You said no crisp, that means no crisp. Your other half went out at making sure that what you say doesn't hold weight. I'd be having long words with him later. He'd also be getting a session on the naughty step for not listening and being naughty.

I can't blame you for feeling like that I'd be super pissed too

I would be absolutely furious too.

Could you not have taken the crisps off her?

I would cancel swimming altogether.

Any fucker her behaviour didnt impact the class or coach, it was in the changing cubicle so just her and I. In the grand scheme of things what she was doing wasnt that bad, but she kept at it when told to stop. The crisps are a big treat for her so I felt taking them away was appropriate, her behaviour wasnt bad enough to warrant stopping lessons etc. Usually the threat is enough, this time it wasnt which is why I followed through. ( or didnt as DH stepped in).