"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's February 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hi George,

(First off, loved the haggis thing - my mother once seriously took the hump with me for eating a hot cross bun, 25 years after I had apparently said I didn't like hot cross buns)

You say you don't want to lose the relationship with your mother - does it have its good aspects? Does it bring you anything? If you want to have a relationship with a narcissist (and I did for years - went NC at nearly 40), my advice is to be as boring as possible. Nothing about hopes and dreams, nothing about problems - everything's fine, nothing to report, talk about the weather and what they watched on TV last night. Don't give them any hooks to hurt you with.

In terms of your DS I would ask you how your childhood was, and if there were abusive aspects, are you sure you can keep your son safe from that? Atilla who is like the thread mother always says that narcissistic grandparents either under- or overvalue the relationship with their grandchildren. If you have a grandparent who overvalues, then they may be very very nice to their grandkids (I also think this is a way of gaslighting you - "look at how nice I am with your son! You must have been such an awful kid for me to be so nasty to you") especially when they are young but they will end up part of the game playing eventually, whether the narcissist grandparent rejects them or whether they use the kid to get to you. By the time we closed the door to her, my mother had her golden child and her scapegoat all picked out, and I could just see where it was all going.

I don't want to tell you what to do but I have to just say, when we went NC it was like a massive load off my shoulders. I felt like for years someone had been bleeding me, just a bit, just now and then, but enough to keep me tired and down. And it stopped immediately. I got to the point where I thought "christ, there are people in this world who're estranged from their parents... and I'm not one of them? Why the hell not?"

George,

Can only echo what toomuchtooold wrote in its entirety.

re your comment:-
"I don't want to lose the relationship with my mother. I want her to have a relationship with my son. But part of me thinks - do I want her around him. Poisoning him?! Talking crap about me, putting me down. Complaining about how far away we live (45mins) and how she only gets to see him twice a week?! I don't want her attitude around my son. I don't want him to learn her ways".

What was the reasoning behind the first two sentences; the rest of this part of your post contradicts those sentences completely.

Your mother was not a good parent to you and narcissists make for being deplorably bad grandparent figures as toomuchtooold has already explained. Its painful watching a narcissist interact with their grandchild mainly because there is no interaction. its like watching a repeat of a tv show you have always hated.

It is not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist. She only sees you and your son as narcissistic supply, that is only what you are good for to her mind. Keeping him away from your mother would be the best gift you could give him. He does not need to see you as a parent getting disrespected all the time by the grandmother; it sends mixed messages to the child. Also the damage can happen right in front of your very eyes; it can be a disapproving look as much as a pinch.

While healthy grandparents can enrich your child’s life, your parents—narcissistic or healthy—are not essential to your children’s development.

Your child will not feel an emptiness if your parent is he not part of his or her life. On the contrary, having your parent in their life may induce the presence of emotional pain.

Your narcissistic parent can only harm your child. By keeping your parents away from your kids, you have the opportunity to break the cycle of narcissistic abuse that injured you.

Set the boundaries and protect your child like you wish someone protected you when you were a kid.

Thanks for the replies. I need to think over what you all have said and come back. There is a few bits that I don't agree with and others that are so bloomin spot on! This is all very new for me so need to get my head round it. It's not a nice thing to accept - I'm finding it quite difficult.

hello everyone , ive popped back but not posting much as im having counselling so dealing with my family estrangement in that ,and trying to live peacfully with my decision the rest of the time.

thought after reading georgeofthejungle i would share my experience , although i know everyones experience is individual.

my childhood was very like yours ( especially they dont know you like i do !) and i have gone on to become a successful professional with a great partner and lovely family of my own. ( they hate that , it challenges their belief of me)

My eldest daughter did have a relationship with my parents until 18 months ago , i thought i could over ride their behaviour but she began to notice ( comments , rudeness, criticism and at times downright cruelty).
Things came to ahead and when i stood up to them ( its my mum and sister) telling them how they made me feel ,asking them to stop or keep away from me. They started to question my mental health and spread rumours so i couldnt have anything to do with them.

18 months on my 8 year old daughter completely understands what has happened ( i couldnt hide it from her , and i tried ) she never asks to see her grandparents and never blames me. She has her own secure little life and they are not part of it .

Its not what i wanted but as my counsellour said "they werent the parents you wanted or deserved so why did you think they would be the grandparents you wanted for your children"

we still attend large family events and we have our own family parties ( i do see some other extended family members who see them but i ask not to be told anything about them or for them to share information about me or my family )and yes i wish things were different , but they arent and its not my fault , the same as it wasnt my fault when i was a child.

i hope things get easier for you , best wishes

Yes george, to echo port - really hope things get easier for you. I hope we don't seem too gung ho on the no contact - I know other people do manage contact, and I know the Toxic Parents book has quite a lot of good ideas on that, if you're wanting to read further. Otherwise you know, just, best of luck.

Hello ladies I'm sat here crying in bed. I need your support if poss. I have been estranged from anusive mother for about eighteen years, all fine. I have a neither who went with her, fine. My dad and sister, I cut them off about ten years ago. My sister reappeared two summers ago and I saw her for a year or so. Fine at first but just the same after a while. What shocked me most was the way it all just slotted right back into how it alway used to be. After all that time!!! And they were so bad to me back when we were kids. So much physical abuse, some sexual. My sister held me down. I cannot spend time with her, she won't even discuss it. She is my older sister but like a child in her neediness.

Anyway it upsets me when they try to come back. I have built a life.

And yesterday I see my dad has emailed me. He was the hardest to cut off because I had good. But the ongoing meanness, the I wish I'd never had children type comments, the oh fgs child your news is trivia. I mean really, so mean, so dismissive, always chasing for his love and bever getting it. And now he has emailed saying he misses me.

I just wish they would all go away, it's like they died when I cut them off. I grieved for two years. My partners dad died when he was 19 so he thinks I should make the most of it with my dad because I may not get the chance. My colleagues dad just died and she says the same, see him, make it up. But I just don't have it in me to go through all of that again. I did it with my sister, where I thought she'd changed and she hadn't. I think my partners opinion is skewed because of his own dad. But yet I am upset. I replied to my dad first, nice, then one saying to get lost effectively and not come back. Now I feel guilty for hurting him. He didn't abuse me but he stood by and then was mean for years. I just wish they'd all get lost and stay lost. I don't know what they want from me, to forget it ever happened? I mean really.

Thanks for reading, just so upset.

Hi something, hope you're feeling a bit better by now, it's been so quiet on here sorry we didn't reply. I've been hiding under a blanket since the referendum result...

Your partner and your colleague are thinking of what they are missing but sadly none of us ever had that good relationship that they miss so much. IME it can be really hard to get people to understand unless they've been in the situation themselves.

My jaded view of what they want from you is that they enjoyed having a scapegoat, tbh, and that's the respect in which he misses you. You deserve better than that.

Anyway I hope you're feeling a bit better now.

Hey thanks, yeah I feel much better. I always do when the distance is in place. I sent those three emails in response, then remembered that we don't play with abusers, we don't return balls back across the net, so I have left it ever since and not heard back. In a way I wanted to hear back, to know what he wanted, but that's just dialogue isn't it and it won't lead anywhere good. It's hardcore this isn't it, because what about when he dies, will I regret it? But the time to change that would be now right, and I don't want to. I just want to get on with my life.

Thanks for the reply anyhow. This is a great thread x

Is this thread still going? Was hoping it would be alright to pop in for some advice/just a chat about PILs. I'm not really sure if it's "stately homes bad" iykwim but it's pretty weird and I really don't know what I'm dealing with. Not trying to fix anything, just worried about the aftermath and think DP would like some coping skills for it all too.
I also think people on this thread are more understanding and it feels a little more "hidden away" than starting my own thread

JeanClaude

Yes this thread is still very much alive and well.

What is up with your PILs?. Feel free to write as much or little as you wish.

Can i join in as well? Had a thread about a week or so ago about my parents and DDs birthday (they sent me an email about how upset they were). Still no further contact from them.

But what is actually upsetting me at the moment is that neither of my siblings, in fact none of my family bar my parents have sent dd anything. No cards, no presents, not even a text to me. Nothing. I've always thought I got on well with my oldest sibling so I would have thought that they would have bothered. My other sibling we don't get on very well but I have always got them and their kids cards and presents for the kids. I know it shouldn't be about money but I've spent hundreds on their kids over the years and they can't be arsed to buy a card and stick it in the post.

Thanks Atilla. Will try and keep it as brief as possible but I might go on a bit, a vent could be good for me! They're not actually quite my ILs yet, I'll use that for shorthand but it's my DP's dad and step mum, DP and I are engaged and have one child so as good as in laws, unfortunately!

They never seemed to particularly like me, DP and I were teenagers when we got together and they were never welcoming or friendly, never invited me over or even really spoke to me if I did see them. DP assured me he thought his dad didn't mean badly and he's just awkward but SMIL in particular carried on a friendship with DP's ex too while barely acknowledging I existed which I think made it pretty clear where I stood with her. I actually had very little to do with them for years until I was pregnant, but they seemed more interested then (accepted I was sticking around by then I guess!) so I shook off all the feelings I had about them not liking me and tried to build a relationship. Its probably worth mentioning here that I have some mental health issues that made this incredibly difficult but I really did want a relationship with them for us and our child.
So things picked up a bit, they were involved throughout the pregnancy/birth/hospital stay, again I genuinely wanted them there and was pleased our relationship was growing closer. Once we were out of hospital they visited a few times, but only ever popped in for half an hour or less and the visits got less and less frequent. They are also incredibly hard to talk to, I've tried endlessly but it's like getting blood out of a stone. SMIL is all hugs and xx's and huns on Facebook but in person she's just totally flat. They never invited us to theirs or for a day out or anything either.
I think DP was disappointed anyway but what really set this off from our point of view was them not getting our DS a birthday present. Not in the materialistic way, we would have been happy with a visit! But DP was gutted by this and I think just totally gave up, he stopped contacting them at all and we never heard from them.
A few months after this SMIL went from "liking" everything I ever posted on Facebook to ignoring it all, there wasn't an actual trigger for this it just happened. Then a couple of passive aggressive comments on pictures which I ignored - I'd been trying to encourage DP to get in touch with them and sort things out all this time but he's a grown adult and can make his own decisions basically, I wasn't going to force him but wouldn't get dragged into Facebook wars either so I felt like I was in an awkward position.

The last thing was a Facebook status from her asking if anyone was allowed to contact my DP. DP rang his dad after this - their relationship is complicated and it's not my story to tell at all so I won't go into detail but it's things like consistently putting partners above his kids, real selfishness and lack of support. The phonecall just wound up with DP apologising for things like not buying his half sisters a birthday present when he was only 15 himself fgs (that was their justification for our DS's lack of present) and his DF explaining what a supportive parent he was because he helped us move house a couple of times when DP has done the same if not more for him. And his DF was clearly beating around the bush because he couldn't give any actual reasons for any of the things that had happened except that it kept coming round to them feeling like I didn't like them and various minor issues with me (like apparently they called round one time and I didn't answer the door but they could see me - I either didn't hear it or didn't realise it was them and didn't answer for anxiety reasons I don't remember it happening and definitely didn't ignore them on purpose obviously). This was a bit devastating for me tbh, it sounds dramatic but just how hard I'd tried with them and how much it had hurt me feeling like they didn't like me, to have it kind of turned round on me was disconcerting.
I can't do phonecalls (anxiety) so I sent SMIL a message over Facebook (FIL doesn't use it), just explaining that I didn't know how this had happened but of course I didn't have an issue with them but also felt I couldn't really gloss over how they'd treated me in light of them saying they felt like it was me that didn't like them, but I wasn't emotional or rude, it was a well measured and truthful message that I got DP to check over for me first and get his agreement on.

What I got back was honestly something else. DP had explained to his dad on the phone that I'd been trying to encourage him to get in touch but SMIL has well and truly decided that I'm controlling him and not allowing them to see him or DS. Her message accused me of things like criticising presents they bought for DS, slagging them off to people, controlling the length of visits to our house and not letting them hold our son. It's just... I have no words. I hate confrontation and anything horrible so it just goes without saying I would never do any of those things because it would cause something like this! I don't know how she can say it, we must all know those things didn't happen surely? She said some horrible personal things about my body language (I AM awkward but I try so, so hard and I do think it comes across that I'm trying) but they've always been so unfriendly I think most people would be a little uncomfortable around them. Said we'd been using them as punching bags and she needed to protect her family from us but we've honestly never done anything. It was full of guilt trips and vitriol but just based on nothing, really emotive stuff like saying DP had rung "TO" make his dad cry, like we hadn't shed tears over it all but we didn't try to guilt trip them about it because it's not helpful. It's all just horrible! I sent a very brief reply saying it was all untrue but I wouldn't try and defend myself against that and blocked her. DP arranged to meet FIL and talk about it in person (he wanted to clear up all the untrue things SMIL had said about me) and his dad never bothered turning up.
So that's where we're at now. Don't even know if FIL knows what she's said to me or if he agrees with her or anything. DP wants nothing more to do with either of them, SMIL for what she's done to me and his dad for the combination of stuff throughout his life plus this.

What I'm worried about is that this may be a pattern for her. She has another son who has a child, and she's claimed the mother "banned" her and her son from seeing the child and that it may not even be his child. Seeing as she's now saying I've banned her and FIL from seeing DP and our son it obviously leads me to wonder if she's properly batshit and she just goes round making these things up. Or if it genuinely did happen the first time and she just expected me to do the same and filled in the blanks on her own? Tbh I would lean towards the second if only that I've just always tried so hard to be nice to them, despite their obvious disinterest and also the message she sent me was just not in this reality at all. I'm worried about the fall out. The rest of the family, anyone else she decides to tell their side to.. I mean everything she's said about me is just the right side of believable so if she tells people surely it wouldn't occur to them to think she's lying? I'd hate for DP's relationship with his lovely grandparents to be affected by this.

I'm going back into therapy, I've been well for a few years but this has knocked me for six. DP isn't coping either, he says he feels like his whole childhood has been tainted because every time he thinks of a memory it's got his dad in it and now all he can think about is how hurt he is and how he feels like his dad doesn't care about him.
I'm sorry that is really long. I suppose I did need a vent. I think it's the not knowing at the moment, obviously there will be a fall out for DP emotionally but in terms of "what's going to happen next" I have no idea. Could be nothing, WW3 might break out. I'm so stressed.

Hi RooDaisy just wondering how you are getting on with your counselling sessions?

something I really feel for you. It's a shame that your partner doesn't understand why you can't have anything to do with your father/rest of your family. I know what it's like when you have people bombarding you with "oh but you only get one set of parents" etc and just remember that such people must have a fantastic relationship with theirs and cannot understand what it would be like to have an awful relationship with them.

There are some things you just cannot explain, like why you don't want anything to do with them.........for a start it would take forever to tell someone all the awful ways in which they have behaved towards you. I tend to have a generalised statement to just shut down the conversation but to make the person realise that it's not just a simple case of 'family fallouts'.

Depending on how well you know your colleague, would you be comfortable saying something along the lines of "I really don't want to go into details but the reason why I don't have anything to do with my family is because they were abusive towards me as a child. I'm glad that you have had a great relationship with yours but unfortunately it wasn't meant to be for me"? Or a simple "I can not spend my life trying to make other people happy whilst making myself totally miserable in the process".

JeanClaude I am a regular poster on this thread about my PIL and my own mother too.

Talking about the PIL. After the debacle of DH's GP's trying to give DC3 a birthday present from the PIL, he has received a parcel addressed to him but with a present for DC's 3&4. Inside the parcel was the wrapped present, with wrapping paper that said "I love mummy" all over it. There was a letter addressed to DH on the envelope taped to the present. The letter inside was however addressed to both DH and I, saying how it had been lovely to see us all when they visited! (they weren't even here 15 minutes and they wouldn't even sit down!! All they wanted to do was to give DC3 her birthday present from the IL's and to take as many photographs as possible of her and DC4) and that they had enjoyed seeing DC's 3&4 so much that they had to go out and buy them something but if they had given it to FIL to give to us they know we wouldn't have accepted it!! WTF?
DC's 3&4 have not been given the present as it's pretty obvious that it was what GP's were trying to give DC3 from IL's (you could tell the present was clothes) but they have added a little something in for DC4 to try and make it look like it wasn't the same thing.
DH wasn't born yesterday and he is certainly not stupid like they seem to think he is.

DH received a text from his GF a couple of days after the present arrived asking if he had received "the little something from Grandma?". That's funny because it was his handwriting on the packaging and he had written the letter too! Trying to play on DH's heart strings I think.

DH had blocked his GP's numbers from his phone but they were still able to send a text? Odd. DH has not replied, just ignored.

I feel so upset for DH. You can see the hurt in his eyes, it's awful. The way he has been treated by his parents and his grandparents too is just appalling. Although I have a narc mother and know exactly how she operates and how all the other family members dynamics work as a result, it still really surprises me that parents can be so vile, malicious, vindictive and spiteful to their own flesh and blood. I just can't get my head around their thought process that would make them behave in such a way.

I feel so upset for DH. You can see the hurt in his eyes, it's awful. The way he has been treated by his parents and his grandparents too is just appalling. Although I have a narc mother and know exactly how she operates and how all the other family members dynamics work as a result, it still really surprises me that parents can be so vile, malicious, vindictive and spiteful to their own flesh and blood. I just can't get my head around their thought process that would make them behave in such a way.

mampam I feel like this too. My family aren't the most functional ever but no one has ever deliberately hurt anyone like this and it's all alien to me. I feel so sad for DP. I've seen the way his dad has treated him for years but minor things always previously so I've of course stayed out of it. I probably still would have stayed out of this tbh if they hadn't made it all about me!

Your situation sounds very stressful, I'm very worried about what the future holds for us with things like that. I hope things calm down for you.

"JeanClaude" I know where you are coming from I have been in very similar situations with my PIL. Every time the shit hits the fan they are expert at using me as the reason for their unacceptable behaviour. The scapegoat, the verbal punch bag, the excuse. In fact it has nothing to do with me, they have to 'blame' someone for their behaviour, they won't accept that they are in the wrong.
This is what your PIL are doing. Using you as an excuse as to why they behave in such an awful manner.

I would take this as a fantastic opportunity for you and your DH to go NC with them. It is difficult and counselling will definitely help for you and your DH.

I too suffer from anxiety and each time it has kicked off with my PIL my panic attacks have come back with a vengeance. It would seem from your post that your PIL are using your vulnerability against you i.e. your anxiety about opening the door at times. I bet they never even called around but any 'normal' people would understand your reasons as to why you find it difficult to answer your door at times.
My FIL tried to use the fact that I'd previously had counselling against me. He told DH that I had to go back to counselling and apologise to him and MIL if I wanted to continue to live in our house (we rented a house from them at the time, next door to them........it didn't end well!). The reason for this .... because I told MIL that I didn't want FIL to call our house phone at 10.15pm again and to stop pestering DH all the time (they used to pester him before he went to work, when he got home from work, every time he stepped outside, they would phone him at work, in the evenings at home etc) to cut a long story short MIL started swearing at me, I swore back but it was made out that I had been screaming and f-ing and jeffing at MIL for no reason and calling her names etc. None of this was true.
Unfortunately you can't control what other people are told and what they believe. As long as you and your DP know the truth that is all that matters

JeanClaude

What mampam (hi there) wrote in its entirety. Go no contact with these people. You really do not need them in your life, they bring you nothing but anguish. Your partner's dad is a weak bystander of a man who has and will put the woman in his life before his children.

Thanks for the responses. DP has said he doesn't want to see them anymore. Obviously I'd rather not too so supporting him as best I can.
I just wish I had a crystal ball to stop me stressing about how this will affect things with the wider family etc. I feel like if I at least just knew if they were going to leave it now or if they'll try and stir up a whole load more drama then at least I'd be prepared for it. We weren't at all prepared for this and it caught both of us totally off guard.

Hi. I have a dilemma about my narcisstic brother who calls me daily despite the fact that I don't like talking on the phone. I'm running a mud race this weekend in my home town and my family are supposed to be supporting me. My brother wants me to stay at his house the night before my race and we travel to the venue together whereas I would prefer it if I stayed at home the night before as my brother would deliberately make me late for my race, for example, he will want to get cash out or buy some shopping when it could be done later. He also wants me to stay for the whole weekend but also wants me to stay the following weekend too so this would mean that the deep clean on my place won't get done as I'll be running around after him.

Do not have anything to do with your brother at all; it is not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist. If he persists I would be seeking legal advice re harassment. That may sound drastic but it really is not. Where are your parents in all this re you and he?. Are they actually as toxic as he is?

Block him from your land line and change your number if you have to as well. You are not his keeper or personal assistant and you do not have to do as he wants.

Good morning ladies. How are things with you all this morning? I hope you are all coping as best as and getting the help you need to get through your own predicaments .

It has been a while since I last posted here as my beloved dad passed on (as some of you may know) and I've been gathering my thoughts. It's hard because, like many folk here, I've been conditioned to feel a sense of duty toward my mum. The thing is...........I don't feel anything now. I have become emotionally anaesthetised toward mum IYSWIM. There's nothing there. No feelings of love/duty/care for her.

DH was out with the DC yesterday in town and mum and my lovely DBIL (DB1's civil partner) were walking on the other side of the road. DS and DD called over, but they either ignored our DC or they didn't hear. DH has actively encouraged me to go see mum, but I don't think he really 'gets' how toxic she is.

I have never told anyone else this (except dad), but I was sexually abused when I was around 7-8yo, by a couple of blokes that our family knew. I found out from a friend, who is a friend of their parents, that one died of cancer and the other was killed in a bad RTA. I knew when I heard this, that there would be no justice served. Dad was very supportive when I told him (and he was so loving and caring when I confided in him) , but over the years, when I needed mum to sit down and take the time to listen to what I had to tell her, she didn't have nor make the time to do this. So I was left to deal with on my own for 30+yrs as I didn't trust anyone enough to let this out to (except dad of course). Not even DH knows about this and I don't feel I can tell him just yet, if ever.

When you have been let down by one or both parents/siblings, I find that the people you should be able to trust the most, set the precedent for not trusting others from the off, as opposed to finding out for ourselves by trial and error IYSWIM. By this I mean that we become more wary about trusting others, which makes it harder for others to become our friends as they have to work harder for our friendship, than they would have had we not been let down those closest to us IYSWIM.

I apologise if I'm not so clear. I'm having a scatter-brained day where a million thought processes are buzzing around my head at once, so it's a bit hard to get my thoughts together quickly.

I found this article online, thought it was an interesting read. It's about diversion tactics used by narcissists.

mampam

Thank you for asking how my sessions are going. It means a lot.
It was my 4th one on Tuesday and the first time I cried. I've had a lot going on, due to being made redundant, effective 30th June and prior to that being off sick since April. The redundancy is what I wanted but the week before I had really bad anxiety, I'm 34 and this is the first time I've been officially unemployed, I had a paper round from being 13!!

Last week was a really lovely week because I had people come and stay with me for a full week, my auntie came Monday - Wednesday.
Wednesday was the day my Dad was a massive twat and in counselling the following week was the reason I cried.

The plan was for me to take my aunt home (50 mins away) on Wednesday in time for her to get to work at 10am. My work car which was going back the next day decided to break down so I had to stop before we got on the motorway. My aunt (my dads sister) rang him to come and pick her up as we didn't know what time the RAC would get to me for, anyway, she put him on the phone to me so I could give him directons of where he needed to pick her up from, he comes on the phone to me and SCREAMS down the phone, "I've got to come to where you are at this time of the fucking morning"
I said to him, it's not my fault my car has broken down and I'm not speaking to you, so gave the phone back to my Aunt.

He turns up about 40 mins later, so it didn't take him long at all to get us, we're in a dodgy as fuck car park and it's pissing down. My DAD not only didn't get out of the car and say are you okay RooDaisy, he didn't even look at me, just sat that and rolled a fag, waited until my auntie got in the car and then drove off. It's usual behaviour for him but it still fucking hurts.

My car got fixed and I was able to go and see my sister that day and ended up meeting my Aunt when she finished work, I asked her what my Dad was like when she got in the car with him and he said, I'm not fucking speaking to her or acknowledging her. My DA asked him what his problem was and his response was that I have had the cheek to call my DM a bad mum. It's bullshit. Over the past 4 months or so when I've re-directed how I've been feeling towards my mother, as I've explained in my previous posts, she had said to me on one of the text conversations, Ooooh, I didn't realise I'd been such a bad mum, my response was, I never said that you have been a bad mum AND it's not about you!!

So on Tuesday in counselling repeating this to my counseller made me realise how fucking shit my dad is. What kind of person, let alone parent, rocks up to where there daughter is broken down and doesn't even look at them.

I've got to let go of any hope that my Dad is ever going to be a proper dad to me and stop hoping for something that is never going to happen, I would say, that was the main thing to come out of that session. So, I have to write him a letter, for me and my counsellor to discuss. I can't put myself into my inner child mind set to do it so it has to be from how I feel now.

I've put off doing all week because I honestly don't know where to start but tonight I caught the end of the Christmas episode of the Royle family, when Denise goes into labour and is upset and Jim goes up to her and tells her when he first saw her he loved her and knew that he would do anything for her and will always be there for her.
That is going to be my starting point, when I was born and he held me for the first time, what did he think and feel and what changed??

On a more positive note, since officially being unemployed, after 11 years, I feel like a massive, massive weight has been lifted and have decided to take the next 2 months off. I've joined the gym, cycled about 30 miles since Tuesday and am going to take this time to enjoy myself, go to the gym, train the dogs and enjoy each day and when I do get a job, it's not going to be for the rest of my life, it's going to be a job that pays that bills and I'm going to do something fun at college, learn how to craft, upcycle or study astrology.

I am ready to let go of all the toxic shit and focus on myself and being happy..

upsidedown I'm so sorry for what you went through, that's terrible .
Your post really resonated with me. I find it so hard to trust men and it's because I couldn't trust my F, he cheated on my M when I was a child and I was told all about it and my M has always put him first over me and my siblings.
How you've expressed that is something I've never thought of before but it's so true. Thank you for helping me to put things in an even better perspective

Just coming on here to be a bit like... WTF.. seeing there is noone to say these things to in RL

Have been NC with DM for while a while since one thing too many just made me want/need to do that. I didn't intend it to last this long, but TBH life is way easier without my parents being around (I was already NC with my dad, they aren't together). DM has been trying different things - tactics I guess you might call them - to get me to talk to her. Messages telling me I"m silly/childish, messages asking why I won't talk, messages about other family members being ill and how much it's affecting her, other stuff too.

Several times I've almost been ready to offer to sit down and talk, but the messages have got my back up and I just haven't, and got on with life. Then recently it was DM's birthday and I sent one quick message to say happy birthday and that I would talk to her. She sent on back saying thank you and trying to reel me in again (that's how it feels, I know I sound cynical) with questions about the other family members and how very ill they are.

So, I was intending to talk as soon as there is some time to do it properly.

But here's the thing - I passed DM and my step dad in the street today. For the first time since I cut contact, this was in the next town over, I wasn't expecting to see them. Something in me thought ok, well I guess now is as good a time as any, so I stopped and sort of loudly said hello as they neared me. We're talking about 2, 3 metres distance. A busy sort of street, btu I mean, there I was standing in front of them - with my DD, so you would think fairly obvious. I also thought they had seen me from some distance. But as they passed both of them literally seemed to turn, look through me at all the shop windows behind me (a cafe, a bank), and then togetehr pass by. So I said, and then raised my voice, louder kind of almost shouted 'Mum' twice. They seemed to turn again, but then were past me and kept walking.

Now, I figure this could be completely innocent. They, to be quite honest, can be not so very bright and there is a possibility they did not see me. I'm not sure how, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. But mostly my reaction was kind of, WTF - and I'm sort of thinking fine, well I was going to give them a chance and talk but I'm quite happy to go another few months without any contact at all now, if they prefer to play silly b*ggers.

Honestly, making contact again wouldn't be for me, it would be for them - to give them a chance to behave differently, explain my side of things and at least hear what they have to say, and let them see DD again if all went well. I could quite easily go years if not the rest of my life without them and if anything I"m pretty sure I'd be better off.

Seriously.. I just can't figure out whether they saw me or it was a genuine blank. Both of them seemed to be, bodies turned looking straight through me.