"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's February 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

"Been lurking on here for a while now. I just want to know if you've had something terrible and tragic happen to you. Is it OK to be abusive and violent to others? And to use it as an excuse to continue to be that way".

No and no. Am glad to read you are no contact with this person as well.

Thanks Attila. She is awful. It's took a lot to get to this point.

Hi can I check in? I would appreciate using the thread as a sounding board
I can post more background details if you like but basically I was collateral damage as my parents abused each other. Mum needs to control me, drew me into her fantasy world throughout my teenage years until I angrily protested and she clearly has MH issues. She is supportive in a crisis because she feels needed. if there is no crisis she tries to make one.
Here's where I' ve got to.

1 She works very very hard to make me feel guilty. I don't feel remotely guilty. I am frankly a far better daughter than she deserves.

1. dad was Mainly an "enabler" but sometimes exploded violently. I get on well with him now. He is now physically dependent on mum and relies on me to counter her lies about him (eg misdiagnoses...)

3 neither brother wants to go NC and mum's brother is lovely. sadly, neither her brother nor either of my brothers have ever been able to sustain a relationship ( for which of course mum is greatly responsible) so ironically family is even more important to them 4ds1 has loving memories of them from his early years 5 when I am with my mother I mainly feel cold fury. over the course of a few days she will bait me until I explode and shout. She is deeply jealous of me because I have escaped her. 6 mum is very intelligent and very dedicated to her dysfunctional need for control. You cannot reason with her. She fights back with hysteria and accusations. You cannot ever make her see your point of view. there is no point trying. so when I am with her I am mainly in my shell 7ds2 got upset at Christmas because he heard me shout at her. she did really well I must admit, shrieking out" she's going to kill me' ( if only) so that had an impact on ds2. so that was a little victory for her.I did feel guilty about that ( not for her sake though)

I do feel duty to family
I used to feel fear too but less so now that she is physically weaker and cannot follow me
Her occasional approval is lovely but I don't crave it ( sadly she craves mine)
I feel no guilt
I just wish I could keep my temper. But how do you do that when someone devoted themselves to baiting you?

Don't really know what I'm asking. I suppose I am seeking validation of my decision to stay in contact despite her being a bitch!

Should add I suppose that her vicious remarks lose their power as the years go by. Some of her more classic remarks have legendary status with DH ( who is delightfully different from my parents)

Is there a new thread?

It was my birthday a couple of weeks ago and surprise surprise, I was the one who had to go and visit my family. I really didn't want to see my M but wanted to meet my sister. M told me she'd come and see me at the weekend, I told her to let me know so I could plan my weekend. I had to message her on the Sunday and ask which day she was coming because I was busy on the Sunday, what do you know, she was planning on coming the Sunday which I feel was a little convenient.

It was her birthday the following weekend and I had friends over and no intention of going to visit, I called and sent a card. 2 mins after getting off the phone I had a text from my F, "can't believe you're not coming to see your M". I ignored him and then got a similar message on Sunday which I also ignored.

Come Monday night I get a text of M, hope you had a nice time with your friends, I replied - yes, I did thanks. It was a belated birthday celebration for me.
I then get a text from her "I am very upset that you are treating me as you are but don't forget I LOVE YOU unconditionally"
I know I shouldn't have engaged but I repeated what I've already said and along the lines of - I need some space to work through my issues, as hard as it for you to accept, I still have childhood issues and I don't want to see you why I work throught them. I'm not going to be guilt tripped by you, even though you might not agree with me at least respect my decision and give me the space I am asking for.
She then replied along the lines of "there you go again, why do I try? I am not guilt tripping you, that's what you are doing and stop making out like everything is about your childhood when it's not"

Fuck off and do not tell me how I feel. You are a 50 odd year old woman who's giving me shit about not coming to see you for your birthday. Where have you been when I've been off work for 3 months depression, where were you when your husband was coming in pissed up in the middle of the night. You left me downstairs with him so you could sleep.

I just want her to leave me alone. I'm ordering toxic parents today, I have a couple of counseller numbers I'm going to call and have started to write a journal and record how I am feeling.

I am refusing to be drawn into anymore conversations with her and I refuse to feel guilty for putting myself first.

Hi all. I've been thinking of posting for a couple of weeks but wasn't sure how to phrase things. (Also worried that my experience isn't as bad as some.) Basically, since I've had kids my relationship with my mother has become strained. I've been re-evaluating what I always thought of as a normal childhood and come to think that perhaps it wasn't as happy as I thought. There've been a lot of 'how could she do this to her kids?' moments when I think of some of the things she's done looking at things from the perspective of becoming a mother myself.
I'm coming to the conclusion that she may be a narcissist - she certainly exhibits many of the traits I've read about. I'm also coming to the conclusion that I was the scapegoat for my mother. Even to this day, although never explicitly said, I feel that I'm not good enough for her. My sister on the other hand could do no wrong it seemed - even though she had/has a nasty temer and was on occasion violent toward me (one instance involved a cricket bat and is still used as an amusing story today).
As I've said the many incidents I remember have been thrown into stark relief by the arrival of my own children and her behaviour surrounding them. There seems to be a lot of I/we want coming from her. Mainly because they don'the visit every week. She expects me to just hand them over every weekend, after saying that they love to see me too - it bloody well doesn't feel that way. These days it feels like I'm a necessary evil for her to have grandchildren.
She's also obsessed with having her fair share of visits by the the kids and I've had complaints that my in-laws are more involved than my side - they aren't. It's all very stressful because, while I know that she's being unreasonable, I still feel that I should put in the effort and worry about 'depriving' my kids of their grandparents.
Phone calls from my mother always result in me ranting at thin air because she's made some comment and I don't feel capable of ranting at her and telling her what I feel for a change. My feelings don't seem to count, as was evidenced when my sister came to my house in a drunken rage after I refused to listen to her berating me over the phone, both of my parents minimised her behaviour because 'she'd had a drink'. The fact that my kids were in the house listening to their aunt seemed not to register with them.
There is soo much more that would probably take up pages and pages to tell but I seem to have written an essay as it is. I'm not even sure what I hope to achieve by posting; just a place to vent that isn't my poor husband, I think. If you managed to get through that, thanks for reading.

Hello Captain

There are other vary wise people on this thread to advise you but as a new poster, and lurking for a long time....I agree your mother is a narcissist.

In my opinion, you shall never be able to reason with her or your sister as they have no empathy("my feelings don't count", "violence with cricket bat is an amusing family story") and want control. I have been at the shouting stage, trying to use constructive reasoning, and it did not work. I now say nothing, nod and make small talk. I take the provoking comments and do not retaliate which is what they want...its a waste of your energy.

I have recently decided to have low contact with the hope of NC. I have
posted on two similar threads today, about this!

I too worried I was depriving my children of their grandparents and aunts, however if it is a toxic environment it is not good for these people to be around your children. Your sisters drunk behaviours was harassment and so inappropriate.

I too used my DP as my sounding board, he, 10 years ago, pointed out that my families treatment was not normal and awful, and advised me to get counselling, which I began last month. I don't know why, but even after 1-2 sessions I felt more confident and empowered. I have stopped doing the intermittent emails and message to family that I felt compelled to do...there was so much pressure and nothing was ever right.

My sister is the golden child, which is often the case of the narcissistic mother. I am reading Toxic Parents at the moment and you shall identify your families traits in that clearly. Save your energy for fun things with your DP and children.

I would recommend counselling, as for some reason its taken a professional to tell me I am not a bad person and its not my fault....occasionally I do have doubts and think its me...Its a work in progress.

I have stopped my children visiting after one visit 6 months ago - the children spent the night(this was the first and only time my parents have minded my children)...the stress of the visit and the game playing want worth it. I dropped them off at 10pm and collected them the next day at midday. Now my mother only wants my daughter to visit and not my son and he has picked up on her favouritism (DS is 3). I don't bad mouth my family to my children, I just don't talk about them. Luckily, I have a lovely MIL, and 2 SIL and their families, who show me how easy family should be not stressful.

RooDaisy Jesus what a horrid, selfish mother you have. She basically didn't give a shit about your birthday but expects the royal treatment for hers? I feel for you.

Hope Glad that your counselling has empowered you I too was in counselling when I went NC with my mother, I definitely wouldn't have had the strength to do so without it.

Today we've had the Royal visit from DH's grandparents. I knew it would be a bad idea.

DH spoke to his GF last week basically to tell him that if his parents carry on like they are i.e. Blocking him in with their vehicle, putting out the giant penguin at the end of their drive, watching DC3's bus go passed and waving etc then he was going to the police and reporting them for harassment. They said they were staying with ILs for a few days and asked if they could visit. DH agreed on the condition that they didn't start going on about his parents as just hearing their names enraged him and made him feel sick as he's so angry with them. I knew that no good would come of it.
So today they have turned up, no warning despite DH texting and asking what day/time they would be visiting.
We haven't seen them since this time last year, they have driven over 300 miles and were in our house no longer than 10-15 minutes. Never asked DH how he is or gave him a kiss and a hug like his GM would normally do. All they were interested in was DC's 3&4. Taking photos of them (no doubt to go straight back to show ILs) and they tried to give DC3 her birthday present from ILs. DH had to take it off DD and put it outside before she opened it.
GM started saying "no don't do this" and it was all rather awkward. They refused a cup of tea or a look around our house.
When DH saw them out they started when they tried to make him take the present in the house. DH told them the present would go in the bin if it stayed. GM started getting upset and said to him "it's one thing for you to have fallen out with MIL and FIL but to not let DC3 have her present....it's not of this family".

Basically she made DH feel like the biggest C**t on earth. Low and behold DC3 cried after they'd left. Not because she had a present from her Granny and Grandad but because she was given a present that was taken away from her.

DH is so angry. Angry that his grandparents were his mother and fathers delivery service and photographers,that they were not remotely interested in him, that they made him feel bad.

He has now blocked them from his phone, unfortunately they know our home number. He had basically faced up to the fact that that is probably the last time he will ever see or speak to his grandparents. Why does it have to be like that?

Last week when DH was on the phone to his GF he kept saying that his parents just don't want DC3 to forget them or think that they don't love her! Surely if they had her best interests at heart they wouldn't have been so vile to their only son, tried to take away his means to earn a living therefore having a major impact on their grandchildren.

Wise words of wisdom needed here. We are doing the right thing aren't we? We can't let our children have anything to do with people who have emotionally abused us, bullied and harassed us, have gone out of their way to make our lives a living hell and whom we do not trust, let alone trust them with our precious children, can we?

I don't see how we can but when you are made to feel like you are scum of the earth.....

to you and your family, as that experience is so threatening and stressful.

Yes you and your DP are definitely are doing the right thing, these people are not positive for anyone to be around. Its bullying and controlling.

Thanks Hope. I just kick myself that despite all that has happened we still need reassurance
I just wish these people, who are meant to be DH's loving caring family, didn't still have such a hold over us and make us, particularly DH, feel so guilty

Thanks Hope. I'm also fortunate to have great in-laws. They never demand to see the kids and are happy with any visits they get from us - and they really do mean us, unlike my parents who are all about the kids.

Mam, that sounds like a horrible situation to be put in. I don'the know what else you could do, but that doesn'the make it easy, as I'm finding out.

*doesn't. Bloody auto-correct.

mampam Thank you for replying, When I first saw your response last night, my initial reaction was, No, she's not like that and I felt a bit disloyal to my mother but then I realised she is and you're right. All my life my M has been made out to be some amazing person and can never do any wrong but it's not the truth to me and I need to not shy away from that.
Basically she did see me on my birthday and bought me flowers, told me she loved me but it was all on her terms. I was guilted into meeting up with her in the first place and then she tried to make me feel guilty for not travelling 2 hours round trip to see her when she hasn't been to my house since Christmas. That hurts because if I didn't go there, they wouldn't see me which is exactly what is happening now.

I am really close to my Nan so don't want to stop visiting all together because my Nan is getting on but even my Nan said to me the other week after I'd said to her, it all goes back to when I was a kid (and she knows what happened, she hated my F for a long time), you kept a lot hidden, we didn't know what was going on. I couldn't believe she said that I know she didn't mean any harm but FFS, I was a child, I should have been protected.

I think the only way I'm going to be able to get through this is very low contact whilst I work my way through how I feel and I am not going to speak to anyone within my family about what I am going through. I know it's on me and I am quite nervous about the possibility that once I start counselling I am going to want to go NC. I think that would be admitting to myself that they don't feel the way I want them to about me and are never going to.
That doesn't make sense because I know that know but I guess what I mean is, I want to be in a place where I don't need their approval and to be happy with who I am regardless of how I've been made to feel my them over my lifetime.

I've got an appointment with a counsellor on Tuesday and after a brief chat yesterday he thinks he can help as this kind of thing is what he's experienced in and I think that's really important. I'm also quite surprised I went for a male counsellor but I think it's going to be a good thing.

Roo I totally get it. People used to come up to me all the time and say "isn't your mum lovely?". I used to just smile a fake smile whilst in my head I would be saying to myself "not to me she isn't". The nice persona was an act, a front put on to the rest of the world, what went on behind closed doors was totally different.

Counselling helped me to come to terms with the fact that my mother was never going to be the mother I wanted. Even if she had had a total personality change and had become everything I could ever have wanted in a mum it wouldn't have mattered because it would still be her. It was too late. I feel over the years I have come to terms with the fact that I was one of the unlucky ones to not have parents. I'm ok with that but I do have rare moments when I grieve for the parents I never had. Does that make sense?

I wonder whether you will want to go NC with your mother or whether your counsellor will help you to handle the situation better, as in boost your confidence in dealing with her and her unfair demands on you. I bet when you agree to do things like meet her on your birthday but on her terms, you feel angry and frustrated with yourself because you are yet again doing something you don't want to do but feel powerless to change the situation or to stand up to her.

I hope your counsellor helps you to realise that you cannot spend your life being miserable just to appease and make other people happy. Your mum will be skilled in trying to make you feel guilty but hopefully you will learn to just let it go over your head. Easier said than done, believe me.

It's great that your counsellor is experienced in this kind of thing. It's interesting that you went for a male counsellor. Let us know how you get on. You don't have to rush through your feelings, just take it at your own pace.

It's odd isn't it how other family members who know what went on, at the time didn't think to make sure the children are ok. My aunt has told me a few things about my mother when I was a small child yet she was shocked when I told her some of the things my mother did whilst I was young. It didn't even cross her mind that us children would have it inflicted upon us too.

Hello all - I am 36, married and have two kids aged 3 and 6. I have a sister who used to be my best friend as a child but I can best describe our adult relationship as strained. My mother and father are a bizarre duo - he is 11 years older than my mother and is a highly controlling, dominant yet fragile personality (cant laugh at himself or take criticism but dishes it out) and my mother was encouraged to give up work and look after a house when she was 24 (yet didn't have her first child until she was 29). She has not worked since and lacks what I would call 'work ethic'. She has managed a home and children for a very long time. My father has never cooked a meal for himself or put on the washing machine. I am not sure he knows how a hoover works!

My childhood memories of my mother are of this vague and sometimes sweet woman who cooked well, ironed and kept a spotless house. My teenage memories are of her looking hard faced at the dinner table whilst my Dad sulked, slurped or chose to tell my sister he wished he hadn't had her. I often stuck up for her, but that resulted in almighty rows, during which my mother was silent if I remember correctly.

So my sister and I survived our childhood of a passive mother who didn't visibly stick up for us when our father decided to emotionally abuse us (lots of game playing, sulking, emotional withdrawal, emotional blackmail etc from an early age and plain insults to my sister). My sister got the worst of it, and I kept my head down and took the role of placating and mediating. My sister kept clear of my family as best she could for most of her twenties and now she has a child has returned to the same village and they all seem to rattle along nicely together (she keeps my father at arms length it has to be said).

I live a good 40 miles away and the more they get on with the sister the less they seem to like me and mine. Sister has had a lot of therapy and often tells me in a rather condescending manner what I should and shouldn't say to my mother as if I am the one getting it wrong all the time and my mother is exonerated of all responsibility.

I myself have had therapy in the past, especially when my family fell out with me over my wedding in 2011 (my mother told me that "it is not all about me you know" and that she couldn't stay over to help me on my wedding morning because she "needed her own bed" and "wanted to be fresh for the day" - I spent the night before the wedding alone with my 18 month old). They didn't speak to me for the two weeks preceding the wedding. I didn't even know if they were going to turn up on the day! I thought I had a good grip on the family situation after that therapy and after having kids of my own - keep a distance, don't see them or speak to them too often and usually it is fine. That is until this week!

So it is my birthday this weekend (uh oh - another event that is about "me" god forbid) and I booked tickets for the theatre a year ago for DH and me with my mother telling me that she would babysit for the day. I intermittently checked her calendar throughout the year to check it was there (as I don't quite trust her!). So I texted last weekend to tell her to come to mine for 10 am and we would be home at 1900 hours. She texted back "no that is too long a day for me I will be there at 1230". Bam, all my husband's lunch treat plans were out the window, no apology, nothing. I could tell this was the start of game playing, like at my wedding and I felt sick with that knotty feeling of being 'done over like a kipper' by my mother AGAIN. What's worse is that I let her in and trusted her which is not easy. So I replied with "but we were going to lunch?" and she said "no I am too busy on Saturday". She had this day blocked out for a year?! she doesnt work?!?! what on earth does she have to do on the one thing we have planned?

Now I begged my mother in February this year to help us out a little so my husband and I could get some time together. He works a 24 hour shift and also has a business on the side. I also work three days per week. We are a busy, frantic pair and rarely parent together. I have started to feel like we are drifting apart and I therefore burst into tears in front of my mother who at the time relented and kindly stayed overnight so my husband and i could go out for the evening and night. We thanked her again and again the next day (she needs a lot of gratification). But the offer has never reappeared, she never calls me, or texts me to ask how I am. For this weekend, she has called the shots, deliberately curtailing our day to give us enough time to see the show and come back with no extras, no apology despite that being inferred a year ago upon booking.

I feel so fed up and let down by my passive aggressive mother. I suspect that my father may be goading her on and winding her up behind the scenes but I can't be sure. Just an educated guess.

When I was pregnant with my first she implied she would help with childcare. She became more and more vague about it until we got the message and booked a childminder. At the christening they sat in the corner not joining in, with faces of misery. At the wedding they all stressed out and argued with me. I didnt see my mother on my wedding day until I was virtually leaving the house. she was no help. I had a showdown with her when pregnant with my second, told her how she was emotionally never there for us, bought up the wedding etc. She disappeared for weeks after that, turned off her phone. Dad wouldn't allow me to see her citing "I had upset her and didn't deserve to speak to her". Those issues were never mentioned again. The conversation had been pointless.

I see other grandmothers looking after their grandkids everywhere, at my daughters ballet classes, at the school gates etc. My colleagues have their parents fly over from Ireland so they can deal with the school holidays better. My mum said she would help with the holidays then it turned out she has decided to go away and also that she has "a lot on" and can help with one day in the entire six weeks (but just my 6 year old son, NOT the three year old).

I am exasperated. I am tired. I would appreciate any comments at all, any thoughts or similar experiences!!

little That sounds absolutely awful and I really feel for you, what a nasty trick to pull on your birthday. It sounds similar to what I am going through but luckily I don't have children. You want your Mum to be there for you and help you out but it sounds as though that is never going to happen.

I am by no means an expert but I've found going really low contact helps and as hard as it is, try not to put any expectations on her, it sounds as if she consistently lets you down which is really hurtful so take away any opportunity for her to do that. Could your childminder look after your DC's?

mampam

I'm finding it really difficult to reconcile my feelings about my M because it was technically my F who was abusive during my childhood, emotionally, physically (toward my M) and psychologically to all of the family. I'm annoyed that she's still with him and that she put up with it for so long, and potentially still does and didn't protect me. Inspite of that I have still been craving a relationship with her even though I know is never going to happen.

My first appointment with the counsellor actually went really well, we covered lots and lots of ground. I was 100% honest with him and told him that I do abuse alchohol, we worked it out I'm drinking 14 units per night and this is up to 5 x a week. I'm also smoking about 20 cigs a day and even though it's a lot more occasionally than it used to be I am using cocaine and cannabis. I did a hell of a lot of all that during my 20's and I know it's really unhealthy behaviour which I really want to stop. But it's a crutch at the moment and I'm hoping that the road I am now on is going to remove the need for that crutch

We covered off the things that happened during my childhood, what my relationship is like with my family, my history with men, which I've mentioned before has been pretty shit, how I feel about myself, I constantly give myself a hard time, my friend even said to me the the other day when I was talking, do you ever think about the good things that you do, that hit home with me and what I want out of counselling.

I feel positive and am really glad that I have made that first step. I have a feeling it's going to be a long road but at last I am on it

Update on my M, she messaged me late on Friday inviting me to a festival with her and my Auntie on Saturday. I feel like a total bitch for saying this but it was a invite to make her feel better and make me feel bad. She knew I wouldn't be able to sort daycare for the dogs at such short notice and she knows what my feelings are on wanting space but again my decision isn't being respected.

Thanks for the support and I'll keep on posting to vent

Hi Roodaisy thanks for your comment. You have said what my husband said! Back off and low communication. Thankfully I have a wonderful father in law who is always there for us and us going to cover either end of the day. Id never do this to my daughter or son! X

Bump

Hi Lisa

Its not you, its them.

I can relate to quite a lot of what you have written re your parents, your mother in particular. My dad is nicer (I am more like him in terms of overall personality) but he does act out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. I also very much know about being let down at the last minute and having previously agreed arrangements changed more than once.

If your DHs parents are nice I would concentrate on them, your parents clearly cannot be at all relied upon for anything. They basically dragged you and your sister up and you've both suffered (and continue to suffer) for it. It is not your fault your parents are like this; you did not make them that way.

I can relate to much of what you have written. My dad is not like yours but my mother may well be of a similar age. My dad also does not know how the hoover works either, she's always done all the housework. She did not work after having children and kept house also.

They were part of the reason why I went abroad to get married, my ILs were another and a third being that I did not want to get married in church.

Both parents, my mum in particular, have let me down a lot over the years so I have basically backed off from the two of them. It got to the stage where I arranged my own babysitter (I used Sitters) and stopped asking them for any babysitting. My mum, with my dad's assistance, still runs around after my childfree brother who has and does milk this for all its worth.

I think my mother did not want to be a grandmother and was unhappy when I became a parent. She did not want to babysit and I can clearly remember her telling me many years before that if I had children then I was not to ask her to at all look after them. Anyway I maintain an even lower contact stance now and it works on some level. It still hurts though because I cannot fully rely on them and infact have not been able to do so since my mid teens. I was basically trusted i.e. left from that time to get on with it but I simply did not realise it at the time. It dawned on me over a period of years thereafter.

My advice is to create a nice life for yourselves without any of your family of origin in it. You do not need these nasty people who are out to put you down by using you as a scapegoat for all their inherent ills. It is not your fault they are like this and you do not need their approval any more, not that they would ever give it to you anyhow.

Wishing you a very Happy Birthday for this weekend, here is some cake from a fellow Gemini because it is my bday and .

Happy Birthday both! :)

Can I join? I'm totally f**ked up at the moment. I'll try to keep it brief...F was very violent when I was little, M was emotionally unavailable and cold, we were part of a religious nut-job cult-church, and my GF sexually abused me. It's a very, very long story, but basically my parents continue to see GF, despite knowing about the CSA. GF is a total shit, nasty, violent, aggressive - everything you could despise in one human being - but they feel they have a christian duty toward him. After many years of them being totally unsupportive toward me (I left home young, told them about the CSA 5 years ago when married and settled), my GM died last year. They always excused seeing him on the basis of seeing her / protecting her / he might beat or kill her if they didn't etc. Now months on they still see him. I'm at the end of it with them. Have asked if they'll consider family counselling or independent counselling. My F is very religious and needs to pray about it and give my mum time to manipulate him into never doing it Trying to keep this brief as there is so much I could say. I am in a place where its make or break with our relationship and I'm scared. Although I know they have failed me repeatedly my entire life, the idea of cutting them off is scary. I am at very low contact as it is. But without spelling it out for them, they will just carry on hoping I'll 'get over it'. They say they want me healed and well but have never offered me a fucking dot of support. It all comes from my sisters and my husband. Please offer me words of wisdom mumsnetters. Considered a name change but fuck it, I'm past that now.

Hi all. I posted a while ago and then got a bit scared and ran away. Since then I've started reading Susan Forward's book, and feel like I've had my eyes opened wide.

I started some CBT for general anxiety a few months ago, but it became clear to both me and my therapist that whilst I do have anxiety, everything I've spent years putting under that heading is actually trauma. It was a rather harsh awakening, but one that has been brilliant for my recovery. Luckily I've been working with a fantastic therapist, and we switched it to looking at trauma. Within that work I've realized because of my parents, I'm constantly in fight or flight mode (I have diagnosed CPTSD but this has been a new level of awareness), even after a 'good' interaction with them. I am an emotional wreck after just being in the room with them, or thinking about them. I never put these pieces together before, and believed them when they told me I was emotionally unstable - now I see that often I was just in PTSD mode, and more often actually I was being perfectly rational, and it was they who were at fault.

My mother continues to defend my father - I've realized she is a complete enabler, but more than that, is the queen of both passive aggressive, and emotional blackmail.

My father is both aggressive and doting, switching between the two so I can't keep up, and meaning that I am in a state of panic whenever I am dealing with him, as I never know which reaction I'm going to get.

For years I've put down my emotional flashbacks (as I now recognize them) as just waves of emotion because I was incapable of controlling my feelings. Now I see when these are happening, I'm seeing patterns, and know that they come from what I have been through.

Last night I sent my mum a text, following on from her emotional blackmail one earlier in the week ("you don't want to see us anymore, you don't want us to see DC, I don't know what's changed"...) telling her exactly what has changed - that being, my awareness of myself and their role in my mental health. I worded it well, and thought hard about what I was going to say, and I don't regret sending it. She hasn't replied. And I feel okay with that - she will deny to the hilt that there were any issues in my childhood. But I did just want to check in with some people I knew would understand... everything.

I have just discovered this thread! I posted in Aibu earlier but maybe this is a more suitable avenue!

I have come to realise my mother is a narcissist. I am really struggling to keep my cool with her and I'm not sure what to do.

Previously when things got too much I would take a break from her, not see her for a couple of weeks. I didn't realise she was a narcissist at that point, just that I would need a break from her - and of course it was my fault because I was difficult. Now, I have a little boy and I want him to have a relationship with his grandparents so make the effort to see her twice a week. It's too much. I can't cope with her. Yesterday at a BBQ she fell out with me because I said I didn't like haggis!!!!! 'Well, you liked it when you were younger'. Well I've grown some tastebuds and a conscience. I don't like it. She has made it more than clear she feels I was a nightmare child and if she could go back and change things she wouldn't have had me when she did. She hates that I am in touch with my birth dad and his family and I can't help but feel she is jealous of my home and caring partner. I get the impression she would be secretly pleased if it all came crashing down around me as she would be there to pick up the pieces (on a side note, i realised tonight that when an Ex and I used to fight I always thought my mum and I got on better. I thought this was because of me, like I was easier to get on with or something. But tonight I realised, no it's her - happier as she could 'rescue me'). She almost enjoys telling me 'that ship has sailed' when I moan about DP not proposing yet. One time I joked and said he loved me more than her as he bought me an Easter egg and she didn't. She said 'no he just doesn't know you as well as i do. That'll change, don't worry' it was nasty, it wasn't meant to be funny. She goes out of her way to treat me like a child I am 30, I am a mother. My son was 2 months old (ish), she came to visit. She was here about an hour and said 'is it wrong I just want to get going so I can drive my new car?'. Don't let me stop you. It's getting to a point I can't stand to be around her. I had a realisation the other day that if she wasn't my mother I would have nothing to do with her, I would not be her friend.

I don't want to lose the relationship with my mother. I want her to have a relationship with my son. But part of me thinks - do I want her around him. Poisoning him?! Talking crap about me, putting me down. Complaining about how far away we live (45mins) and how she only gets to see him twice a week?! I don't want her attitude around my son. I don't want him to learn her ways.

I used to share her attitude. The 'I don't care what you think' attitude. But I moved out when i was 18 (a whole other pile of i was thrown out/no you weren't shit. (Yes I was)) and worked my way into a good job (another seeming bone of contention) and I was trained in how to communicate and motivate and be a good leader. And I studied a business management degree and I learned that no it's not ok to talk to people like shit and yes it is your problem if someone is offended by something you have said. And I have learned apathy. But you ask her and she talks about me like I'm horrible, like I'm difficult. And I think, yes I am difficult. I'm difficult to you! Because i am constantly biting my tongue. Biting my tongue to your self praise, to you putting me down, to your snide remarks and laced compliments. How nothing is ever good enough, how there is always a but.

I have dreams where i sit and tell her everything. But I know I can't, it wouldn't make any difference. Her narcissism is intense that she would never believe me anyway. She'd tell me it's me taking it wrong, that I'm remembering things wrong or that it's my fault she behaves that way.

I don't know what to do. I really don't.