"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's February 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Mrs B

What Gide also wrote in her replies.

You also had a rotten childhood at the hands of your mother and your mother was herself raised by a narcissist. Your mother is a drunkard and her H enables her in this. Toxic dysfunction like this can and does go down the generations but it has and will stop with you because you would never treat your child and your as yet unborn child in the ways you were treated. Also you have two qualities these two women lack; empathy and insight. I cannot stress enough the narcissist's lack of empathy so I would not be at all letting your nan off the hook here at all. Both your mother and her mother never sought the necessary help but simply carried on doing what they themselves were taught (it was easier).

Your dad is her enabler; women like your mother always but always need a willing enabler to help them and he has fitted the bill perfectly. He is a weak man and bystander who has also failed you abjectly as a parent. He failed to protect you and still fails in that respect.

The only people that really at all bother with people like your mother (because she is really not worth bothering with) are those who have received special training i.e. the unfortunate now adult children raised with such an inadequate parent. Many adult children of both narcissists and alcoholics have FOG in spades; you certainly do. I would advise that you see a therapist who has a) vast experience in dealing with dysfunctional families and alcoholism and b) has NO bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

You can break free of your mother; she does not have ultimate power over you. She needs to be kept well away from your children; she will likely act in not too dissimilar ways to them as she has done to you to date. Neither of your parents were good parents to you and they are awful examples of grandparents to your children.

I second Atilla's last post. Just to add that the scapegoat will NEVER win with a narc. The only way to gain control and get back on track is to set down very strict boundaries and be consistent in sticking to them. Write them down if you need to, and put them in a place that is obvious to you and so they are able to remind you. This way you can be more consistent when reminded of the boundaries. I have to go and take my dog to the vet (a small nick on his back right paw), but will be back later, so have a on me. Take care all. See you all soon

MrsB I'm catching up on the posts since last night but this jumped out at me.

She said I loved the attention I get from DH's big family... and also changed with the attention I got at DS birth

I bet the change that she's referring to is that because you now had DS to care for, you weren't able to be as vigilant to her moods, and weren't able to smooth every single bloody thing over and pander to her and generally rearrange the world to her liking. That's what happened to me. I was surprised, because it had been a long time since she'd had an outburst, but once our kids were on the scene her behaviour took a real tumble.

I went NC with my mother in September and it was a massive relief. I don't feel the slightest bit guilty, which surprised me. But what really helped was when I went to a counsellor and told her about my childhood - and she pointed out that I have a duty of care to my children (and not my mother) and that that includes keeping them away from the influence of people who aren't good for them. You can totally go NC with a clear conscience.

Gide - you said you weren't an easy child. I bet you were no harder than any other kid, and that's including the dysfunctional childhood. In any case, it doesn't matter. As parents we're supposed to care for our kids, easy or hard. If your parents blame their behaviour on you not being easy, they're being shite on so many levels. Blaming you for their behaviour - for your own abuse. Punishing you for being a child, effectively.

Toomuch yes, the comments about me changing and enjoying the attention were making me feel so ashamed and even quite dirty in some kind of weird way. This must have been a tactic to get me to focus back on her needs. You've really helped me understand that. Thank you. I'm glad to hear you have gone NC and feel no guilt. This is the way it should be. Nobody would go NC without very good reason.

Attila thanks so much for such a helpful reply. Sometimes I feel I'm going crazy with it all and for you to point out and validate certain points for me in such a clear way has taken a big weight off my heart today.

UpsideDownDog I have learnt I will never win with my mother. I know children who have treated their parents with such disrespect and nonchalance but their parents always loved them unconditionally. I cared so much for my mother, especially when she was bedridden for years. I tiptoed round her, always trying to please. She told me once that I had, 'too high expectations of her' when I had confronted her about her behaviour. She has always excused her behaviour with this kind of comment. However, she has expectations as high as the sky!

Things are so up the air at the moment but will definitely take your advice about clear boundaries, whether I go NC or not. Hope your dog is having a relaxed afternoon after vet trip! Thank you

Hi all, I wish I didn't have to post here but I have been struggling so much and my life appears to be crumbling around me.
I recently found out that my mother, the most prudish, anti sex, anti affection, person that i know, had a long affair when i was a child.
I don't know if it was just the one, or there were more, but the person who told us was told by her, so we have no doubts its true.
I can't tell my mother i know. She will flat out deny it, like she has denied everything else I've ever asked her about, apart from when i asked her if it was possible my dads brother might have abused me in some way, and to that she said "probably".
I've always struggled with being affectionate, and with talking to people.I left home with virtually no life skills, she never wanted to spend time with me, animals always came first.
I'm horrible to my dh and my ds, my ds is going through the ADHD diagnosis, and my DH is undiagnosed ADHD so i struggle with how they deal with things, but I'm just so so fed up of hating myself and everyone around me, and i totally blame her and i don't know what to do.
I think i ought to see someone because its not fair to burden DH with this, but in my head i just sound like a whiny brat who wasn't cuddled as a child, and should just deal with it and think of those who have it so much worse.
I can't remember so much of my childhood, she used to ground me all the time for no reason, and I can't work out why she was so horrid to me.
She wasn't maternal at all, and I swore i wouldn't be the same, i cuddle ds all the time, but i can feel bits of her attitude seeping in to my life, and i fucking hate it :(
I don't enjoy sex, DH says he doesn't mind but in reality he must, and the only reason i can think of is that i was made to think sex was something bad. I don't like physical affection, poor DH :(
I don't know what to do :(

Gide, I once heard an animal behaviourist say that if a person couldn't/wouldn't look after a dog properly, including getting the dog medical help as and when needed, then they would most probably be the same as parents. When I heard that, I did think it was harsh and not entirely true, but the more I thought about it, the more I saw what he was saying, and the more I agreed. So I go by the rule that my job as a parent is to treat my kids with respect, listen to them, and love them regardless (unlike my own mother). I treat the dogs the same way.

These are my 2 hooligan mutts BTW

Your dogs look lovely. What breed are they, are they staffies?.

Hello All

Thank you all for your wise words.I have been lurking occasionally.

My story in brief, I was parenting my younger siblings from age 10. Never valued , manipulated and constantly put down. I was encouraged not to educate myself...luckily I did the opposite, although with no family support and much criticism.

I have recently started counselling to help me manage my family, my DM, and Sisters x 2.I am now starting the NC process. I have had 2 counselling sessions and can say that it helps.

It was only when my husband saw the dynamic 10 years ago that I realised our family and how I am treated was not right. However even now I am still feeling it must be me and that counselling is so indulgent as I wasn't sexually or physically abused (just clattered from time to time).

I felt I should leave a message following Upsidedowndogs comment about parenting and pets. My DM has recently put her dog down and failed to get appropriate care, as later I have discovered the dog has been unwell for a long time.. I am hoping she won't get another dog (if so I shall contact the RSPCA).

I agree that we have a duty of care not to put our DC through any of these experiences.

Hello kelper. You will meet some lovely, helpful people here

Kelper - would you consider counselling and maybe with your DH too?

I strongly recommend it. Do you have a supportive GP who could refer you?

Good evening ladies and gents. Just thought I give you all a laugh with my wee staffy bitch deciding to sit on my dog's head (not a clue of the reason, but knowing that wee hooligan it'll be 'cause she can ).

Ive lurked here for years and posted under previous NN, but want to ask for others experience of illness and death of a parent that you are NC with.

I've been NC with my parents for about 5 years - after they supported my ex at my expense (emotionally and financially) during our divorce. I've since realised that it was not a healthy relationship; lots of narcissistic traits from my mum and enabling by my dad - some physical abuse as a child, and emotionally controlling behaviour as an adult. (For context, their reaction to my marriage ending and previously, my sisters marriage ending, was to share their grief of losing a Family member with us).

They've attempted to reinitiate contact on a few occasions - most recently about 6 months ago, sending me a Xmas card after several years with nothing, asking if we can try and improve our relationship. I've considered reinitiating contact, but see little point, tbh - they are not the type of people I would actively seek the company of, we have nothing in common and we don't know each other - my life has changed completely since we were last in contact. I also think that unless they have changed too, I am even less likely to tolerate their behaviour than I did previously.

But, I have heard (via my exH, who is incapable of keeping his continued relationship with my parents to himself) that my mum has had surgery. She was never 'healthy' and was bedridden with chronic health problems for much of my early adult life. I suspect cancer.

Rationally, I know that they are going to die. I also know that when they do, I will probably find out from exH. I am concerned about how I will feel when that happens. Will I regret not responding to their appeal to reinitiate contact?

NN, I think you can't know how you will feel in the future, so you just need to know in your heart that you are doing the right thing for yourself in the present. And that may change - there may be a time when you choose to reinitiate contact, for your own reasons. Right now NC is the best decision for you, so that's what you're doing. If it's right for now, then it's right for now.

I just wanted to use this thread to type out something that happened today, just to finish processing it.

Was having lunch with parents, and the subject of anti-smacking laws came up. My mother said: "I don't understand why people would even hit their children in the first place."

"Well, you spanked me," I said.

"No I didn't."

"Yes, several times, and I remember it, because it marked me."

"No, no. That must have been somebody else." (Firmly deciding to believe her latest fiction, and I know that now that's that.)

Meanwhile my Dad just smiles and giggles nervously.

I'm not mad or angry. I'm not doubting myself either. This is just who they are and I've made my peace with that. But - sigh. Why re-write history? Why shut me down? Why believe her own fiction because she can't handle any semblance of criticism, at the cost of shutting another person down?

Stately Homes parents. They're just messed up.

There is something really upsetting in a person denying reality when it concerns you. It's like they're negating you. And I already (unsurprisingly, given that this was my childhood experience) have a problem feeling that I have a right to a voice and a right to be heard.

I know that all she's trying to do is shunt away the unacceptable (for her) feeling of having done wrong, and she has no concept that she's hurting me in doing so. It's still hurtful, though. And since I can't take that statement to her (it would cause a narc meltdown), I'm taking it here.

So yeah: I'm hurt, because once again my Mom has just shut me down and denied reality, and pushed away a chance to hear me and to take a look at her own behaviour, because her insecurity trumps any pain she may cause to others.

Glad this thread exists.

snuggly, the message about your SD is a tactic to lay on the guilt. Whatever you do, don't feel guilty. Firstly because the illness is NOT your fault and secondly, if he is being referred to hospital, he'll be in the hands of the people most capable of caring for him.

IMHO, if it's not life or death, then you don't need to contact her. I know that sounds cold but, while you're going through the Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG), you'll never be free from her. She'll either have you by the short and curlies (a complete emotional grip if you go back), or on the end of a piece of string (lots of emotional distance but still slightly connected) IYSWIM.

You would probably do well to look back and realise that the things you HAVE done on your own are an indicator that you could probably live without her in your life, apart from being a distant memory. Life is something a lot of us have to muddle through, but you CAN do it. You just need to keep telling yourself that you are capable of doing just that. Think of it this way, you'll have to get through life without her if she dies, so why not crack on and start detaching emotionally.

What will usually wind a narc up is their scapegoat carrying on with their lives without the narc. Narcs generally want their scapegoats to rely on them emotionally, mentally and physically (babysitting/CM etc). When the scapegoat stops needing the narc, it can enrage them. It's mainly because the narc has very poor self esteem, self confidence etc, and also that they are incredibly insecure. They NEED someone to be proud of, to make them look good. They use the Golden Child to make people think they've done a good parenting job (GC may have a high paying job, nice things etc), yet when the scapegoat is on benefits etc, they say that it's the scapegoat's fault they're on the dole. I don't know whether you've noticed this pattern, but the narc tends to take responsibility for what the GC has achieved, but never the scapegoat's achievements?

A case of "It's my superior parenting that got GC to where they are now, but scapegoat is where they are now due to their own fault. Nothing to do with my parenting skills".

If this help you see a bit clearer, I am in a similar situation, except my dad is in hospital as I type (this is the main reason I haven't been on here for a bit). I doubt very much he'll get out alive, but if he does get out to live his last weeks at home, I'll have to contend with mum bitching about me while I try to help look after dad. No doubt she'll be judging me for not having a job, a car, a nice house in a nice area (instead of the private house I rent on a very small housing (NI Housing Executive) estate.

There are many reasons I don't like my mum. When I was in primary school I was bullied by a gang of 5-6 girls. I told my mum on numerous occasions, but she just said that I had to hit back. She basically wanted to avoid having to get it sorted. I gave up telling her about any more bullying and told my gran instead. I was my gran who told me that she would get it sorted for me, and she was true to her word. My gran went nuts when I told her that mum just kept telling me to hit back, so I told mum that I'd go to gran instead as she's willing to do something about the bullying.

In high school, the bullying started again, only with a different group of people. I refused to tell mum what was happening as I'd learnt it was unlikely that mum would do anything. I sorted it out myself as I cracked one guy's head off a fire extinguisher and broke a chair over the ring-leader's back. Both guys needed a short stay in hospital after I'd went nuclear on them. The bullying affected my grades and mum kept saying I was stupid and lazy. A friend reckons that I wasn't stupid and lazy, but that she suspects that I'm on the spectrum and was struggling (she's a good Psychologist). 5 years in a row I didn't get the grades mum was expecting, so I was stupid and bone idle.

When you have years of getting lower grades than your parents wanted, and then being told by your mum that you are thick and idle, it chips away at your self esteem. It makes you feel worthless, but I still try to please her (or at least I did). I have now given up trying with her as she gives nothing back..........not even a phone call to ask how the DC are doing. I called both mum and my brothers out on their lack of contact and got a shed-load of abuse over it, so I've decided to just step back and get on with my life.

It's hard because the fear of reprisals/verbal abuse, the obligation to the people who created us and the guilt of not living up to their standard can be overwhelming at times. I'm now on 85% don't give a stuff and 15% must obey my mum. Dad is a different kettle of fish as he loves me the way I am regardless of job/house/car/area. We've made great progress with our relationship. Mum is a different matter altogether. I'll never win with her and TBH, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. I tried getting the grades she expected and when I did, she expected more and better. Talk about moving the goal posts.

Anyway, got the kettle on and am issuing a for each one of you good people.

So how are you all coping with your narc/toxic relatives? Hope you're all hanging in there and making the most of the quiet times away from the toxic relatives.

Thank you to everyone here who has shared their stories.

Lurking for months. Now out the other side and feeling so much better.

NC with SCM since October. It wasn't a conscious decision, more a case of avoiding her. We even booked a long trip away at Christmas/New Year to avoid family. The holiday was so relaxing, and when I worked out it was due to the absence of 'family' I started digging. I have spent 40+ years consciously trying to be good enough. Wish the light bulb had appeared earlier. The bulb flashed very brightly at the thread title... I thought because I was given gifts, had a home etc then I must be a crappy ungrateful daughter, but… so much but… Everyone uses her behaviour as a running joke. I had to become the parent by age 12 (possibly earlier but hard to analyse vague memories). I always thought of her as the martyr personality but now realise the classic behaviour you have all described.

I had a long post about her crappy behaviour – a long list of stories when separate, I could have excused for some reason or other, but now that I’m out of the FOG I realise they all link to her problems. The details were too identifying – some of the stories are laughable and I have told irl so I don’t want anyone linking that to this post.

I didn’t send a mother’s day card this year. I have always struggled with that event and now I know why ha ha! I haven’t heard anything from scm or step-dad so I guess she’s sulking. We haven’t seen them for a year now. When we went to visit last year – mainly for step-dad’s sake – I promised my kids they would never have to visit again. It was so full of tension and was not fun. It was the kids who said ‘why did we get such crappy grandparents – everyone else has nice ones!’ that triggered the long holiday at Christmas, AND the ‘hmmm, you’re right, grandparents on tv are often portrayed as lovely fairytale type people – maybe some parents are nice?’…

and another if you read this far.

This is my first time posting and have been working up the courage to do so for some time now. I've been off work for 2 months suffering from depression, it all goes back to my childhood and is something I've suffered with since I was 16. I'm mid 30's now and am determined that this is the last time I'm going to feel like this, I need to deal with what happened and learn how to love myself without needing validation from particularly at this moment my mother.

My childhood was pretty traumatic. Physical abuse from my F to my M, one thing that sticks in my mind is him holding a knife to her throat when my DB was a babe in arms (I was 6 or so), he'd come in drunk of a nighttime and hit her, I'd wake up and go downstairs to try and stop him, ending up being kept up and spoken drunken nonsense to till the early hours.
Emotional abuse; I was called some horrible names by my D which he encouraged my brother to join in on, I was told people were only my friend because they felt sorry for me and other horrible things.
I remember going to my GPs to bring food home because there was nothing in the house. This didn't happen very often but it stuck with me.
My F also cheated on my M at least 3X that I've always known about. I could go on and on about the things that happened but this post would never end.

I thought for a long time that it was all down to my F and I blamed him for the fact that I've really struggled with my self esteem and been unable to trust any man I've ever been with, I've acted terribly during my relationships, often due to being drunk and always due to my insecurities. I had CBT about 10 years ago and felt like I'd dealt with a lot but I don't think I've ever been able to deal with how I feel about myself and only recently am I acknowledging to myself that I'm angry with my M for not protecting me. Not only that, I've been desperate for a relationship/friendship with her for as long as I can remember, we found a letter a couple of years ago, written by me to her when I was 9, pretending to write as a solicitor on behalf of a client (me) apologising for being mean and my behaviour and wishing that I could have a friendship where we spent time together and did nice things. I said to her at the time that nothing had changed there.

I moved to a new town a few months ago, I'm less than an hour away from them and M has been to see me 2 times. I refused to go back at Christmas and engage in all the fake niceness. My home is open all year round and I'll always be nice but if I go to my parents house, you never know what mood they will be in and there could be arguing and my F screaming at my M and speaking to her like shit. I don't have to put up with that now and it shouldn't only be 1 day a year when people are nice to each other. She had a sulk on about this but I stood my ground and had a lovely day with my friends and my dogs.

Come Easter, she said she'd come and see me, she always says she will and then doesn't and I've repeatedly asked her not to say it when it doesn't happen. Surprise surprise no visit, the next week I tell her I'm off work with depression and honestly, I spent the whole weekend thinking she'd surprise me, she didn't and I was so hurt and disappointed. I saw her a couple of times and was really short with her, I didn't want to engage. She knew something was up but didn't want to ask me because she doesn't want to hear the truth but when I was back at my house, I'd get text messages, love you lots etc etc. Knob off, it's bullshit

So approx 2 weeks ago she rang and she asked me what was wrong this time, so I said you are, I went into what I've written above and her responses to me included

If that's the way you feel, there's nothing I can do about that
You keep on moving further and further away
It's a 2 way street - I replied to this with "as YOUR daughter what is it that I don't do" she couldn't answer
I then said to her, we always blame everything on my dad, but you were there you stayed married to him.
She said to me, in the most incredulous tone "what on earth are you talking about"
I said to her, "the things that I saw and went through, the things that no child should ever have to see or go through" she had no response and then got off the phone

I think at that moment I realised I need to deal with this on my own as I'm never going to get acknowledgement of what I went through when it's directed at her and not my F and I'm never going to have the M/D relationship I want. I don't even think I want it anymore and I'm so sad that they've made me feel that I'm not loveable, I'm sure they love me on their own way but they didn't love and protect me the way a child should be loved and if your own parents don't love you, how can anyon

Since the phone call, I've gone low contact and I feel so much better for it.
But then this weekend I did a fun run with my nephew, I get a picture of a car F had won at a competition for the weekend and a message asking what time the race was, I asked her if she was coming and she said we might be. I think to myself fuck off, no you won't, I know it and so do you and what do you know later on I get a message, we're going to Wales to make the most of the weather!! I replied good for you and haven't been in touch with her since.

I do feel better for getting all this down, it's the first time I've ever written about what happened and how I feel.

I've read some of the threads and ordered the when you and your mother can't be friends book, I also read woman who love to much. I'm on the waiting list for counselling and tried to arrange 6 free sessions with work but I think it's important to go to someone who has experience of what I've been through and I can't afford to go private, any recommendations on who I should speak to first.

I didn't mean for this to be such a long post so thanks for reading

Reading that back there is so much more I could add but I won't do, for now anyway

Hi everyone, long time no post. This thread was a lifeline for me in the past months while I was pregnant and dealing with my narc "father" and enabler mother. I've had my baby now and the lack of contact with them has been blissful. In fact I have never been happier in my life, which is very telling.

I have had no contact at all with my "father" since the awful incident a few months ago (threats in my house, frightening my DC, suicide threats, general controlling behaviour) and low contact with my mum is who devastated by this. I have also had family members trying to "fix" things and facilitate a meeting with my mum that I have agreed to but after exchanging a series of messages with her this week I have realised that she still doesn't understand what is wrong and still defends my dad. She says she is crying herself to sleep and just wants to see me and the DC. The thing is that she is emotionally abused by him too and is so conditioned to his behaviour that she thinks it is normal. I feel sorry for her but my mental health has been destroyed by this in the past and I just want to protect my DC from it. What do I do? Do I meet her? She has apologised but her telling me I need to get over it and suggesting that I am just like him is deeply offensive to me. She wasn't the one dealing out the EA but she could have protected me. She didn't. How do I forgive for this?

Also, she keeps sending money for one of my DC (pays it directly into their account). I'm not sure what I should do about this. It isn't mine but it feels like them trying to control my DC too :(

Off to catch up now. Hope everyone is finding this thread as helpful as I have.

Roo. Low contact has kept me (relatively!) sane. I hope in time it helps you too, along with the therapy. I still get sad sometimes too - not that I'm unlovable (I'm not, and neither are you I promise to God), but that I never got the loving parents I fantasised about. Had a bit of a wobble earlier today actually.

Tired, yes it's a blissful feeling when you escape and I don't blame you for not wanting it all back again. If you can, I'd stay no contact! Life is too short.

Merd - thank you. I know that deep down really. It's tough when I'm feeling depressed to keep that at the front of my mind. I know it's going to be a long road and I've always known it's what is at the root of my issues but always thought I should be able to just get over it and move on but we all now it's not that easy.
I hope you're okay after your wobble today.

I have read through a lot of these posts. I guess this makes me a lurker but today would have been my grandma's birthday and it's brought a lot to the fore (including a need to drink, so apologies).
From an early age I was a difficult child. Turns out it was very early. My mum had pnd and left me face down on a pillow (not something I think I should know but hey ho). Grandparents took care of me for about 18 months. Then I went back to my mum full time to go and live with my dad in Europe (parents are still married, dad's job took him away a lot). My mum had serious food issues (probably bulimia, I was two I don't really know) so basically I was a small child taking care of a vulnerable adult. However this was a lovely time. Playing, learning. Really lovely.
Dsis born. Pnd again. Not so bad thank goodness but I went back to live with GPs whilst people coped. Then my mum's brother died. 26. V unexpected. He had a young family. Aged 7 I again went to live with GPs to look after them.
From this time on my absent father (I know it was work he wasn't errant), took exception to me growing up. Couldn't deal with it. Every time he came home, I was bigger, had more opinions. Needed to be shut up. Frequently by a bit of a battering. This continued until I left home (at 18). Then transferred once to my sis at which point my mum sprung into action and wanted to get a divorce. They didn't. I was sort of angry and sort of relieved (why was her getting beaten once a case for divorce and my 10 years a case for nothing? Realise this is selfish)
Years (over 20) later on I am still messed up and now my parents deny any of the violence ever happened (luckily my sister doesn't or I think I would have taken a long wal off a short cliff). She has sensibly moved as far away as possible and I am now left with a depressive mother (is that a word?) and an angry (often violent but to himself and strangers) father. It is driving me to drink which is a poor excuse but it's the only way I can cope and the drinking is hurting my health and my relationships with others.
There's a lot more to this story but I don't want to impose on anyone who will read this. Thank you for reading this far.
Don't know what I'm asking for. I've been to counselling but they all latch on to the absent father and I never seem to get past this point. Yes my dad is part of it but there's so much more. I am overwhelmed by having to deal with other people's "stuff". By aways being put in charge. I just want to go somewhere where I will be taken care of. DH is lovely. He knows about it all but I don't fee he should or could fix it.
Sorry for long post. Started quite pragmatic. Now sobbing. I just don't want to feel
Like I have to be in control and take care of everyone. I want my grandma to take care of me again.