"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's February 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Thanks So, I remember always feeling like a social pariah and it's stirred up that feeling about myself again. Despite just recently having some really productive counselling sessions and having a number of lovely friends who tell me I'm a warm and caring person and worth knowing. I suddenly feel worthless again after a single snub 😩 It puts me back in a cage, I stop wanting to mix with people and can't even smile the same and chat when I do. Just like I am when I'm around my family. It takes months to build a little confidence, and a second for it to collapse.

Hi Ethel, I'm sorry you've had to go through that too. It has such far reaching effects. I mostly get by fine, have some lovely supportive friends and have learned to be healthily assertive at work, but it doesn't take much family contact to get derailed. I was always warned not to upset my mother as she was so fragile but she's always had an utterly free pass on saying what she thinks of me.

I found myself being treated pretty shabbily in a marriage, got myself out, built a whole new life without support and still get digs about my circumstances. The worst "chat" ever was early on in my divorce proceedings, when I was struggling to know which way was up. I got told how selfish I was over something totally pathetic and that i always had been awful, treated them badly and put them last.

That chat in a way was almost comforting as it proved to me how barking mad it all was. Who does that to someone going through such a shit time? The timing was cruel beyond belief.

Sorry to just barge in like this after I haven't posted for a while. I just have a few things I really need to get off my chest and feel like I will explode if I don't.

Life has been really tough ever since we had to move quickly and were forced out of our home next door to the inlaws. Don't get me wrong the sense of freedom that we feel is immense and you really cannot put a price on that, we live in a beautiful place (albeit 2 miles down the same road from the ILs) but the repercussions still affect us everyday and I'm wondering if they will ever go away.

Financially we are worse off than we have ever been. We pay more rent, a lot more council tax, bills are more expensive yet we live in a house about a 3rd of the size. We are struggling to keep DH's business afloat due to him having to spend out so much to buy his own tools/machinery seeing as the ILs sold it out from under his feet. Just when all of that was going on his work vehicle blew up and he spent the last of his money getting something else.

DH has been diagnosed with a condition called Ankylosing Spondylitis (sp?) so we wait to hear on Thursday just how bad it is/how it will affect the nature of his work in the future as he does a physically demanding job and is constantly in agony.

There has been no reprieve from the inlaws. They have struck again this time on Good Friday, pulling up outside our house, MIL even had the audacity to actually knock on the front door and they left an easter egg for DCs 2,3 & 4 but not DC1. They left a card addressed to DC's 3&4 and put a 'PS' at the end to DC3 telling her to "keep waving" which is referring to the fact that they stand in their garden or on the roadside everyday waving when DC3 passes on her school bus.
At the end of February Dh received a letter from his parents (written by his father), the handwriting on the envelope had been disguised and it read:

Hello Mr Mampam

I wanted to contact you to let you know how upset me and your mum are about what has gone on and you moving out etc.
We both worked hard on that extension and I still can't really understand how it went wrong so quickly. I know you did your best to make it work and so did we.

I want you to know that the door is always open as far as we are concerned and if you need us you know where we are.
We would like to build bridges and have some sort of contact with DC 3 and 4 if possible but in the end that's your decision and we have no control over can't do anything about that. It may be that you have no wish to have contact again, I hope not, we have always been a close family and that is important I think.

We won't bother you again, I don't want you to think we are hassling you, all the best Mr Mampam and all our love
Father in law and Mother in law

Can I just point out the use of the word "mum". DH has never called his parents 'mum and dad'. He calls them by their Christian names and they are never referred to as mum or dad.

A week after this letter arrived Dh found out that although FIL 'retired' years ago he has now set himself up in direct competition with DH in a certain aspect of his work (that brings in the most revenue). DH had previously spoken to his father in great length about the next step he wanted to take with his business. FIL has taken his idea and put it into practise as he has the money to do so and DH does not. We live in a small rural community so it will definitely have an impact on DH.

DH also had missed calls from his grand parents on Mothers day.

When he called them back a few days later they claimed they had called just to ask if they could have some recent photo's of DCs 3&4 but started going on about how now that IL's had finally rented out what was our house that it had "freed them up financially" so they had gone on holiday.

DH rents a lockup for his work stuff and from this lock up he has a birdseye view of our old house. IL's know this. FIL has just built their new tenants a workshop/carport in our old garden, something that DH wanted and practically had to beg his father to allow but never got around to doing. FIL knows what a smack in the mouth this will be to DH as I'm sure it's not been done for the new tenants out of the kindness of their hearts.

There is just no let up. I'm sick of watching as they rip DH's heart out over and over again.

Just to top everything off, when all of the stuff kicked off with the IL's last summer I got in contact with my Stepdad as I needed someone who I knew would be on our side. I hadn't had any contact with him or my mother for almost 5 years at that point. He and my mother had parted a good 2.5 years prior to this and he had tried to contact me but I wasn't ready to have him back in my life.

He has just told me that he and my mother are getting back together and she is moving back home with him. I have told him that I will never want anything to do with my mother again and that will never change. He seemed to accept this and said he didn't want it to affect our relationship now that we've got it back on track.
I know my mother. It won't be long before she'll be chipping away at him, she'll be ever so upset that he gets to see the grandchildren and she doesn't so I'm literally giving it an optimistic 6 months before he won't be allowed to see me again.

And as if all of this shit wasn't enough, my cousin is getting married in a couple of months time, on DC3's birthday and I have just found out my mother has been invited to the wedding when I had previously been told that she would not be invited. I'm just going to quietly have to tell her to fuck off aren't I when she comes over and starts trying to be all friendly to the DC which I know she will as that's always been her preferred tactic in the past.

Can anyone help me make sense of my life at the moment? How did I end up with a shitty emotionally abusive and sometimes physically abusive mother and then end up with controlling, manipulative and mentally abusive in laws? Have I also mentioned DC 1&2's father and Stepmother? Their bullying ways and how I'm punished by them if I don't tow the line and go along with everything they want me too? That's a story for another time. I must be the worlds biggest push over or the worlds most awful person.

I really am starting to wonder if it's just me that has a problem and all these other people are just 'normal'.

Mampam,

Its not you, its them.

I think that ultimately you will need to be in no contact with your side of the family particularly now that your dad is getting back together with your mother. I think also that in a straight fight he would choose her over you, such weak men often need a woman like your mother to idolise as well.

Did you throw away the easter eggs (aka emotional manipulation) from MIL; I hope you did this. Such "gifts" are never sent without obligation attached to them and his parents are extremely manipulative. The letter from his father is covered in manipulation as well; all of this needs to be roundly ignored by Mr M. Note as well they still bothered you post letter too; I would consider talking to the police if you are being so harassed.

Was this letter ultimately shredded?.

Mr M and your good self may want to get in touch with NASS which is the only UK registered charity dedicated to ankylosing spondylitis. Their website looks very helpful.

nass.co.uk/

Attila ultimately I know the relationship with my stepdad is doomed and yes he absolutely idolises her, he always has even though she has also treated him appallingly. I guess it takes a man like him as no other man would put up with the shit dealt by her.
Mostly I am annoyed that my mother has yet again destroyed a relationship of mine and ultimately it seems that yet again she will get her own way but I guess narcs usually do.

As for the Easter eggs given by ILs, they did not make it within a foot of the DC they went straight in the bin.

Although DH does not ever want to see the letter again written by his parents I have kept it along with everything else like crappy bits of junk post they redirect to our house, the Christmas card addressed to DCs 3&4 with disguised handwriting on the envelope. I guess I'm thinking that we may need these items as evidence if we ever managed to build a case of harassment against them.

I am constantly in contact with a friend of mine who is a police woman and she doesn't think there is anything the police can do at this point.

I've looked at getting a civil order against them but we would need to go through a solicitor and we don't have the finances right now.

I think ultimately DH needs to catch them in the act on our doorstep and tell them to clear off once and for all but we can't be on standby next to the front door for days on end.

DC 3's birthday is next month so inevitably there will be another doorstep drop. DH wants to put a huge sign on our door so that passers by can read it too which will basically shame them saying something like

MIL AND FIL of blah, blah, blah
YOU HAVE HARRASSED, INTIMIDATED AND BULLIED THIS FAMILY FOR LONG ENOUGH.
YOU ARE NOT WELCOME AT OUR HOME AND WE DO NOT WANT YOU LEAVING RUBBISH ON OUR DOORSTEP WHICH WILL BE THROWN AWAY IMMEDIATELY.

Or something along those lines. Our policewoman friend has suggested sending an email (so as to leave a paper) asking them to stop intimidating and harassing us and also to ask them to stop standing and waiting for DC3's school bus everyday as we also feel intimidated by this.
I'm reluctant to do this as I think they are desperate for any kind of contact from DH. I am kind of with DH in that as we live in the same parish as them hopefully if they know that lots of people have seen his sign they will be too embarrassed to come back!!!

Thank you for the nass website link, it seems to have more information than we've been able to find before. Hopefully we will get more info from the consultant at DH's appointment on Thursday.

*paper trail

mampam

I think that you will have to go no contact with your stepdad; he is really a lost cause and still idolises her. He is really her hatchet man here as well as being truly weak and was more than prepared to sacrifice you to her excesses of behaviour. He has well and truly acted out of self preservation and want of a quiet life.

Glad to read the eggs from the toxic inlaws went in the bin. Your children do not need their emotional manipulations either.

It would do no harm to show the police what you have from the ILs and talk to the police about your inlaws unwarranted contact. I am not suggesting your police woman friend is wrong btw, just that I think a further opinion may be helpful.

Would like to wish you both the best of luck at the appointment on Thursday, pleased to see the website was helpful to you.

hello all , i still here and browsing. reading all the painful experiences that we have all had thrown at us.
I dont have much to say except that the pain is still so raw and i have finally approached my gp for a counselling referral.
just wondering if anyone else has recieved counselling this way rather than privately?
we are not in the position to pay expensive counselling fees , i have in the past but it is beyond us at the moment.
i have exhausted my dp ,friends and myself and feel quite depressed , and this is what i dont want for my family...... and i damn well hate the effect they still have on me. doesnt take much to get me in tears

any thoughts
all the best to you who find themselves in this awful situation xxxx

I could do with a bit of perspective if anyone is kind enough to read.

I recently tackled my e optionally and violently abusive sister about her bullying behaviour towards me during our childhood and in early adulthood. After a bit of toing and froing of emails, she made a full apology. Though she blamed our older sister for bullying her (I wasn't aware of that) and she blamed battling an eating disorder and being in a damaging relationship.

Throughout our adulthood she has regularly sought me out, inviting herself & her family to stay and sending me emails and making phone calls that she knows I don't care to receive. I tolerate her but don't trust her. Anyway in her apology she said she felt very rejected by me over he years. She felt rejected because she was rejected. I wrote back saying that the last time I went to stay at her house in our early 20s, (we are now in our 50s) she beat her boyfriend up. The next time I saw her she was in a v rejecting relationship with a man who was about to get married. When I enquiried v gently about her poor choices, she started to tear my life apart. Basically trying to say my life was as internally crappy as hers. It wasn't. Every time I saw her, I vowed not to see her again. I explained all this to her in an email. To say sorry she was rejected but explaining the reasons.

She has today sent me a completely damning emai. Retracting her apology. It's completely in character for her to behave badly like this. In the email she states that my former husband disputed the paternity of a baby we had shortly before we divorced. Sadly our baby died at birth. His paternity was never disputed. It is a total malicious fabrication. In this email,she also said I was groomed by my first boyfriend (who was kind and lovely and completely wonderful in every way). She told my parents my boywere having sex a few months before my 16th birthday. We weren't having sex (not that that matters). But she found his home phone number for my mother who phoned my boyfriend's father and I'm sure you can imagine the sort of crap that went down. It was very embarrassing for everyone concerned. And a total lie. Dreamed up by my dangerous sister. this is just one example of the many things she did to me.

I feel I'm completely done with her now. I don't see my mother. This drives my horrible sister to despair. My mother emotionally and physically abused us. We spent some time in care. I haven't responded to her vile apology retraction because it is too vile. I don't see how we can ever recover from this.

Is it normal to apologise and then retract everything?

My life is otherwise really very good. I have a lovely second husband (my relationship with my first husband lasted 20 Years and it was a good relationship too). I really can't cope with the visceral destruction wreaked by my sister. It makes me want to curl up into a ball and die. I haven't witnessed violence or emotional bullying outside of my family of origin.

can anyone please help me understand what's going on inside her head?

hello tomb
I have problems with my so called mother and sister so your post resonates with me.
I was emotionally and physically abused by so called mother and by her accounts a very difficult child / teenager which my sister saw..... i was difficult , i was abused ! fortunately my life has gone very well once I left home and i have had a few "normal bumps" along the way but in a loving relationship/good friendships/ happy children/ career for the last 25 years ..... i am nearing 50.
despite this i have always been labeled the difficult one ( although my auntie said i was never as bad as they like to make out).

You say in your op you want to understand your sister and this is my view for what its worth.
You were both from the same abusive family , why did you do better than her ? what did you have that she didnt , she made unfortunate choices , (which i also did in my 20's) which you enquired about gently . I dont believe there is a gentle way of doing that to be honest.
She apologised and tried to give a reason for her behaviour , she has tried over the years to have a relationship with you
you tolerate but dont trust, parental abuse often seperates siblings.

I wonder why after her apology you felt the need to bring up her poor life ? what are your feelings towards her that you needed to push her away ( reject her )after she apologised. This in my opinion caused her to attack you again and renounce the apology.

I think she has tried to give reason for her behaviour ( rejection) which you dont want to accept. I unfortunately know what its like to feel rejected while trying to hang on to some relationship and have my life dissected from many years ago and my achievements not recognised ..... it hurts and this used to send me into attack mode , after counselling i learnt a different behaviour now I just ignore and refuse to discuss.

what stopped you from accepting the apology and talking about what you want from each now ? If thats what you want. there is no healing where there is blame and criticism.

If she matters to you perhaps say you accept her apology , maybe counselling seperately or together ? otherwise walk away.

you say you did reject her and you dont want her so why are you replying to emails , you can just accept that you dont like her she wont change etc and get on with your life. why do you need to understand her ?

your question of is this normal ? yes an abused person who feels rejected will attack when faced with another persons negative ( rejecting ) view of them.

btw , eating disorders, aggresive behaviour and poor life choices can result from being abused , not an excuse but a possible indicator of why she behaved as she did. She sounds very unhappy.

finally congratulations for getting a great life despite what sounds like a pretty sh*y childhood.

Thanks for your thoughts. I accepted her apology in full and thanked her for it and said I hoped we could build a better future relationship.

I was trying to explain the reasons I'd rejected her. As she said she'd been very hurt by it. I wanted to convey the reasons I'd rejected her. They were reasons she'd raised herself within her apology.

I learnt this morning that she has also been phoning my other sister throughout this apology process claiming I'm a self-serving, snivelling little shit. 😄 (Which I probably am. 😄 ) But it isn't helpful to the process.

She also can't accept that I don't see my mother. She told me I was commuting the worst form of child abuse in not allowing my children to know where they came from. 😅 in her apology she said our mother beat her and emotionally abused her on a daily basis and made her life a total misery. My mother did that to me too. So it just seems odd to not understand and respect my reasons for not being in contact with my mother.

I'm not sure what I'm asking really. 😄

It feels like a mind meld from the old days.

I don't want to be in touch with her. But she forces herself onto my life. She lives abroad and comes with her brow-beaten husband and children. And they expect to stay sometimes for days on end. It feels mean-spirited to say no. Though sometimes I do say no. She knows I don't want her in my life. but she persists in pursuing her own agenda and totally disregarding my wishes. She tells me I have relationship problems when in fact the only relationship problem I have is with her. My mother has never protested my no contact. It suits her to not have someone asking difficult questions. the only person who objects to me having no contact is my sister.

And now all these lies about the dead baby's father having denied paternity. Why on earth would she make that up? It is simply malicious slander. To make my life look a mess.

I needed her to apologise. To affirm my feelings. I had hoped we could find some sort of accommodation after that. But it would have to involve her accepting my decision to be no contact with my mother. Last year I suggested a sibling holiday. No spouses or children. Just us siblings. In the spirit of a new negotiated settlement. She suggested we do it next year (now this year). Then when we started to organise she fell silent, unwilling to commit to dates. Then she suggested we take our mother (with whom I'm no contact). Eventually she said she could come. 😅 So the rest of us are going.

Eventually she said she couldn't come. *

She doesn't want a resolution does she? She wants her relationship with me to be totally without regard to my feelings and wishes? An extension of her bullying of me when we were growing up?

I have had therapy.

So. I just needed to vent and I think this is the best place to do it, this thread seems like my kinda people

I am NC with my biological father (let's call him Larry, not his real name).

This Larry physically and emotionally abused me and my siblings throughout our childhood. He never took a blind bit of interest in anyone's feelings but his own and has openly admitted he never wanted or loved me.

My sister has v little contact with him and lives on her own. My Mum divorced him about 8 years ago and they're both remarried.

My brother was living with Larry and his new wife and the emotional abuse and complete lack of fatherly love or concern was still going on. I hated that he was living there because he is still suffering.

My mum told me on the phone earlier that Larry has kicked my brother out. Or given him a months notice. This is because.... Wait for it... He doesn't load the dishwasher. That is, honest to God, the main reason.

My brother can't afford to move out, my mum would take him in but she's far away from his work and friends. My bro's girlfriend is a controlling, money-draining nag bag who won't contribute and he'll be broke in no time.

I know it's a good thing that my bro will gain some independence and not live with the slimy bastard and his slimy wife anymore. But it's just made me so angry!

My bro is so upset that he wants to change his last name. I don't blame him. I changed mine years ago. He is so young, just 21, and I find the whole thing so hard.

Gosh, what a thread. I thought about a NC for this post, but decided not to... if anyone reads this who knows me, I trust you.

I found myself saying to my (couples) therapist the other day, I don't believe anyone has ever loved me, even my parents. Which was unexpected and made me sob. And now I feel like I'm at the beginning of probably a long journey to try and feel something, anything, other than anger, in relation to my parents which is likely to be the key to understanding both my relationship problems and my fears about repeating the parenting fails I grew up with. I'm scared. I don't do feelings, I do building walls and hiding behind them. But perhaps I have reached the point where that is no longer the answer.

That's it really, hello. I guess I'll be back.

This thread is so sad. I am just in a sad place. My mum is a narcissist and I've had great advice on this thread (name changed in case I out myself) but things have come to a head and I think it's time to go nc. Or at least stop trying to contact her and stop trying to make her give a shit. Not only am I sad because I love her and she's hurt me but also I worry for her - she doesn't have anyone. In her words, everyone lets her down so we can all go to hell. I don't know what I can do though!

Sorry I know I've not said much, and I am just rambling. I'm off to read some more of this thread and hope some advice and wisdom makes me feel better

Tomb what an awful situation for you to be in. It seems like your sister wanted your 'forgiveness' and wanted you to take a portion of the blame for her behaviour re: telling you she felt 'rejected'.
Yet she has flipped when you've pointed out that it was her unreasonable behaviour that forced you to push her away in the first place.
I really don't think this will ever come to a satisfactory conclusion as she will never take full responsibility and you can't bow down to her without feeling frustrated and hard done by (and quite rightly so).

It also seems to me like she is just using you for somewhere for her and her family to stay? If I were you I would think up a whole list of reasons as to why she cannot come and stay, write them down and have them to hand so that if she puts you on the spot you can refer to your list and always have an excuse to hand. Hopefully after you have repeatedly said no she will get the message.
Alternatively, tell her once and for all that you do not wish to have her in your life and ignore all contact from her. You do not owe her an explanation as to why.

Just for the record you are NOT committing the worst child abuse imaginable by not letting your children know where they came from. You are being a loving mother and protecting your children from harm and the same abuse that you had to endure. I would say that would makes you a wonderful mother.

Born unfortunately with narcissists you are forever seeking their approval yet it never comes.

Edith Just knowing you do not want history to repeat itself is a massive step in the right direction.

I had a bit of a meltdown yesterday morning, I felt that everything was getting on top of me. If only I had a magic wand.

Mampam - thank you so much for your helpful reply.

I feel more able to shrug my shoulders today (and to mumble WTF😀). Apologising then retracting is a whole load of nonsense. It's such a demoralising waste of time and energy. It's pointless engaging with her.

I'm consigning her to the tomb for dysfunctional relatives. She can keep my mother company.

mampam I've just read your first post. What a horrible situation for you and your lovely family

There's not much I can say to help, just wanted to echo what others have said already. It really, really isn't you - it's them. You sound like a lovely, considerate person, and sadly there are plenty of people out there who are happy to take advantage of people like you. BUT you're standing up to them, you have loads of insight, and you're dealing with it.

The situation with your inlaws sounds really intolerable - they seem deranged, and in fact even quite dangerous. I can't believe your father in law has been sabotaging his own son's business. WHY do something like this?! What a shit of the highest order. Well done for losing them as landlords and next door neighbours , but they still sound far too close for comfort.

Is there really no way at all you could move much, much further away from them? Even if it meant changing kids schools, borrowing money, setting up in business elsewhere? I can't imagine the stress you must all be under having these malicious weirdoes on your doorstep.... Especially your poor DH. And sadly, I don't think they'll get better ....

Wishing you plenty more strength in the future.

Thanks to everyone who helped me on this thread over the last day or two.

Once you steady yourself and regain a bit of perspective, you begin to realise what bonkers situations we find ourselves in. My sister has devoted a huge chunk of her life to examining my life and blowing a big loud whistle in protest every time I do life wrong according to her ever changing value set and increasingly illogical rules. 😅

Hey guys. I have been reading just hard to keep up with replying sometimes. Sorry.

I'm really struggling today. I have happy memories in my my head, I'm particular a family holiday a couple of years ago. The good times hurt so bad as there were good times. I'm on the verge of contacting her again asking if we can please just move on from everything. Which is stupid as it's what I did last time and she kicked off after less than a month...... just why does it have to be this way? I'm actually sadder thinking of happy memories than I am remembering how much she has hurt me. I know what you are all going to say but I just wanted to get that out there.

Arundeltomb, absolutely sounds like your sister was hoping you'd take responsibility for half of it and wasn't expecting you to point out you had valid reasons to reject her.

Mampam, that sounds like hell, is there absolutely no way you can move out of this village (sorry if you already answered).

Atilla, good to see you back xxx

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