"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[pocketsaviour]

It's February 2016, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Helipad, going NC isn't an easy decision, but it is generally done on the basis that the victim knows their MH will go through the floor if they don't cut contact completely.

The funny thing is, narcs will always need someone to berate, look down their nose at and slag off because it allows them to avoid having to take stock of their own inadequacies and failures. They really don't want to face that prospect (it fills them with fear) and when a victim goes NC with a narc, the narc IMHE, tends to explode and try to destroy your name with lots of fake tears, telling people that they don't know why you went NC, making the empathetic folk believe their tales of woe between the two of you and generally feigning hurt. These people are good at the old acting malarkey. TBH, the narc is angry that you dared to become an individual, dared to become strong and that you dared to disregard their command. They are angry that you saw through their veil of deceit. They are scared that you may well expose their vulnerability and ultimately the person they really are.

The narc needs their scapegoat more than the scapegoat needs them. That's the main thing they live in fear of...........that the scapegoat will reveal the narc for who and what they truly are.

Hi everyone, long time lurker here. Lots of your stories are similar to mine. My Dm is a narcissist and I have recently gone Nc. Anyone else dreading Mother's Day? I made the decision not to send a card and I know the flying monkeys will be on to me next Mon....

hi everyone , spoke to soon and have responded to flying monkeys. how i wish I could take things back ......... so so cross with myself.

so called sister txt out of blue ( despite me asking them to leave me alone months ago) asking for my eldest to go for sleepover , we have not talked since last april apart from hello at family events so a sleepover will def not be happening), I was no longer feeling anything about being nc , so this was out of blue and knocked me , it co-incided with my youngest dc having a birthday.
then we got a present and card so I politely txt saying thankyou ( i know i shouldn't but a moment of weakness .....), then a reply asking if my dc liked the gift and what had we done for her birthday , i saw a chink of a door opening and it frightened me , so i didnt reply , next I had a missed call , door opening a bit more and i thought maybe she wants to talk about what has happened , maybe she can see that there are things she regrets , i text " did you call ?" maybe feeling hopeful ? reply " yes sorry i misdialled .............. and door slams shut in my face.

Next I recieve a cheap general card from my so called mother for my youngest dc who is two ,let me explain .... I'm not an ungrateful b but my scm puts a lot of value on wording in cards.and she has not been at all supportive of my youngest child coming to live with us through adoption, a lot of saying that she felt we would be ruining our other child's life because me and my sister never got on etc. the opposite is true , they adore each other.

I'm feeling sore by now so very stupidly I text saying , "thankyou for your very general card , I will try to explain to my other eldest daughter why the card doesnt say grandma" reply i got back was " i tried really hard to get a card appropriate for a two year old and that was the best i could do .. sorry " so i fell for it and so called mother is back in victim mode .........
and I reacted because I wanted to hurt her like she has hurt me.

Now I have recieved a bloody great box with a gift in from my so called mother to my daughter ,which obv comes from my sisters amazon account ...... so now i have given the something to talk about , my unreasonable ungrateful behaviour !
oh if only I could take it all the last 24 hours back , I so would .

all the best x

Chiggers, detaching slowly sounds wonderful, except if I don't get back to her quick enough she rants at me! Although I did promise I wouldn't reply to these messages but they know what to say don't they lol! My mum seems convinced I'm a liar atm she's sharing quotes about lying a lot and calling me so liar and it's frustrating as I haven't lied about anything. But I keep questioning myself about everything I've said. It's true they need someone to look down on and slag off, she always has someone that's being evil to her and she can't understand why. When she's being ok with me it's usually my brother and sister in law, my dad or someone at work. It's mostly me though. I know there is light as I saw it before, but unfortunately I thought I could handle her after being no contact for a while as I was in such a good place but a few hours is all it took to tear me back down. Staying no contact this time, well after the family wedding I have to get through x

Portinastorm, definitely know the feeling of wishing I didn't respond, I absolutely shouldn't have when my mum kicked off at the weekend, but it's hard, you are only human and you have feelings too. It hurt, but she knows that, she did the too hurt you. Just life and learn xxx

*live

Port

Sorry this happened to you, you are not the first nor the last to be used in such a way (being hoovered) by so called family members or flying monkeys (I would go no contact with them as well because the only interests they act in are their own).

Do not be too hard on yourself, you can learn from this.

Your scm and sister (who is a carbon copy of her) have also used hoovering tactics to draw you back into their web of dysfunction and unfortunately (but understandably because this is what people normally do) you responded to their communiques. They were never planning on leaving you actually alone and such tactics are commonly used by such disordered of thinking people.

I would now shred the cards and take the "presents" to the charity shop (such are never ever sent without some degree of obligation attached to it anyway) and delete all their numbers from your phone.

Radio silence must be maintained and boundaries raised higher; giving these people any sort of a way in just gives them opportunity to bother you even more. They are no good for you or your children or you to be in any form of contact with.

Be kind to yourself.

Port, they're trying to suck you back in so they can get you back into your previous role as scapegoat. Don't reply to their texts. Delete them and think no more about them. Your sister and mum will probably ramp up the campaign to try and suck you back in, but stand fast on this one because you know yourself what it means to go back into your old role. Imagine yourself like a ship in rough seas. You'll bounce up and down with each wave (the bouncing analogy is their attempts at getting you back in contact, then back into your role. WRT the waves, the peaks are the highlights of NC, and the troughs are the low points of NC).

You need to resolve never to contact them again. Narcs will not change their ways. They're too insecure to do so, hence the putting down and blaming of the scapegoat for everything and anything that goes wrong in their lives. They will discard you when they cannot use you anymore for their own benefit. You will never be a person to them, just something that can be discarded and blamed as necessary. One person who was a narc had me in a similar position to where you are now Port. I let natural consequences take their course and now that person has no friends, relatives who want to speak to them or have anything to do with them. Eventually narcs slip up, but the decent people will always make sure they get both sides of the story.

The one thing I have noticed with narcs is, when they talk, it's all about them (I was so hurt when X said this to me, etc) , how they are hard done by (even when they've never had it so good), how X did this to them or Y said that to them. As I've mentioned in my previous posts, narcs are great at am-dram.

Thunda, you need to ignore the flying monkeys. Hard as it will be, it has to be done, as you have your MH to look after for the sake of your DC. If we look at how we were treated, we can see that there is a positive to come out of it. The one good thing we have learnt from our mothers is, how NOT to parent. How not to favour one DC over another, how we should get the help needed for our DC who are struggling instead of letting them continue to struggle and them calling them stupid/idiot etc. Narcs tend to engineer situation to make it about them, so that THEY get the attention.

I have to go now, but will be back soon. Take care y'all and keep up the NC with your toxic relatives. Your MH with eventually thank you for it

Hello everyone, sorry for the hiatus...think I went into a bit of a meltdown, was a little concerned that ante-natal depression was rearing its ugly head, but after 3 days of not being able to recognise myself or eat, I feel a lot better. Maybe just the hormones. I just hate the feeling of 'unfinished business', I'm not good at falling out with people without feeling terrible guilt, so being NC with DM is really hard at the moment.

Listening to what Helipad said about the ear op her mum put her through, I feel I'm unqualified to shed light on it from a psychology perspective as I am only just beginning to build up my own insight, and could be wrong but I was thinking that for a narcissist it is very important how you reflect on them and their self-image.

In addition to the 'illnesses' I had, my DM went on and on about my weight. Looking back at photos, I was never overweight, maybe a bit of natural puppy-fat, but was always told I had tree-trunk legs,was an embarrassment. Eventually she took me to a well know global diet company, which shall remain nameless. I was 12. They set me a target weight, which I reached. I received a lot of praise for how thin I was. DM lapped it up and took credit for taking me there. What a good mum, eh?

Anyway, being on a diet at a young age wreaked havoc with my metabolism and then as a teenager I struggled with the cycle of gaining and losing weight, ultimately leading to an eating disorder. I thankfully do have insight into my eating problems as I have had counselling as an adult for that. Funnily enough, I went back to the afore-mentioned diet company about 8 years ago and I said I had a life-time membership from when I was 12. They said that was impossible as they had always had a rule against allowing children to diet and there was an age restriction. So, I guess DM must have lied on the application form. I have the card with the date on, so hat's not a case of me 'mis-remembering'.

Anyway, not sure how this is relevant to Helipad, but it made me think....that the reason I was put on a diet was because I was an embarrassment to her: "no daughter of MINE is going to be fat!". She is still vv thin, but as I say, adult counselling has helped me to realise she also had/has an eating disorder. She tried to 'out-diet' me for my wedding. She succeeded too, and looked emaciated. I was the fashion accessory, and a total disappointment at that!

And I know I am rambling now (sorry!), but I did have counselling when I was 15 for the eating disorder and she used to take me then GRILL me afterwards to make sure I hadn't mentioned her. The counsellor always tried to find out about my relationship with her & I was v protective. Then once the counsellor said she wanted my DM to come to a session. DM hit the roof and demanded to know what I'd said about her. Cue another 'episode'. She did go and I remember her telling the lady that I made stuff up, before we had even started. She was asked to leave the room after some time...I was left with counsellor, who obv. realised what was going on, but I refused help at that time. What a pity. I guess I wasn't ready.

Apologies for the big old ramble... I just find other people's experiences and comments really help as it all builds my own insight and resilience, to try and understand and overcome.... thanks everyone

I also just wanted to add my solidarity & best wishes to helpme. What you said in your first post massively massively resonated with me. In the most recent row I had with DM (which is what has led to me being NC) she asserted that I'd been a cherished child and had an idyllic childhood - though as the row rambled on and she started to admit a few things, she said I'd deserved it but wasn't a young child, I was an older child (that's ok, then - also, not true).

The constant denial and making me question myself over the years has been sooooo draining & makes you think you're losing the plot. I have also had the comment that it's making a joke of people with real problems...sounds like a comment from Narcissists 101!

However, what really struck a chord is that she said you'd said something about your dad, which you know she didn't. And they were very serious things, that you would definitely have remembered if you had said it. I totally get you. What a mind*ck.

I get this. All the time. You have my sympathy as not only are you then engaging all of your emotions to argue about something that DID happen (abuse), but all of your emotions to DENY that you said something inflammatory.

I suddenly found myself trying to argue that I'd never said certain things (which I 100% categorically knew I hadn't) - and then just suddenly thought "this is nuts! what am I doing? I'm wasting all this energy on something I know and she knows...and if she's convinced herself then...she has even bigger problems than I realised. I cannot reason with insanity." I disengaged from that part of the conversation and that's when she spectacularly unravelled and lost her temper.

Anyway, just that really, one cannot reason with the unreasonable. No point, total waste of energy. Full agree with everything the others have said and that NC will bring you a lot more peace. Hope you're feeling a lot better

Thank you turquoise, it is so utterly draining and exhausting, and with 4 kids to raise I just don't need it. I can't spend my life worrying that something I share on social media won't make her kick off or panic everytime I don't text her back quickly enough, I'm always on guard when we are in contact. Then when she does kick off I'm always left with a huge mess of a head so confused and not knowing what's what. I know longer want to stop existing so that's progress, but no starts the process of putting myself back together but it will be for the last time as I'm not going back to it. No doubt I will feel like a terrible person for doing this as I actually care but whether it's her or me with the problem all I know is that she brings me down. I'm not selfish or ungrateful, I care about my happiness but that doesn't mean I don't care about others, I don't lie, I'm actually a very understanding and forgiving person, I know deep down I'm none of the things she says, I know it's me walking on eggshells not her, it's obvious she sees me as an extension of her when I try and explain that I don't like something and even closest people to me don't do it she says well I'm not them I'm your mother. She clearly doesn't thing my boundaries should exist for her. She doesn't see my youngest daughter the way she sees my others apparently because she wasn't at the birth but she shows blatant favouritism towards my nieces who she wasn't there for either. But tbh even that didn't bother me, I'm quite happy just as I am with my little lot and always have been and the stuff she does stopped bothering me a long time ago but she can't stop blaming me for things and ranting at me and being nasty when things aren't the way she thinks they should be. Sorry for going on again, I'm still so confused and angry I'm not much help to all you others suffering really, hopefully give me time and I can try and be there xxx

And yes turquoise the thing with my dad has really confused me, like if she really thought I said that why hasn't she said anything before as it's such an awful allegation, and when I told her I didn't say it she didn't bring it up again....it's a huge thing so if she wasn't lying about being told that surely she would have been more upset about it?!

Sorry I forgot to add as for the thing about my depression etc as a joke, she them went on to tell me she had supported me through it and was there for me. Umm you clearly didn't if you thought it was a joke!

Turquoise narcs do tend to fuck with your head. What you've just hit on there is gaslighting. It's basically when the narc says that you said/did something that you know 100% that you didn't say or do. They'll insist that you did in order to make you start doubting yourself, and so they keep doing it so that you eventually think you're going insane/forgetting things, which can cause alarm.

When a narc does this, the victim needs to cut all contact or they will sink into self-doubt and then end up questioning their memory. And that is exactly what the narc wants. It makes it so much easier for the narc to control the victim.

HelpMe, you need to ask yourself one thing.........what does she bring to your life? If the answer is nothing, then you know that you need to gradually go LC then eventually NC (if that suits you better). The other option is to go NC straight away and tell her exactly why (fed up with being the scapegoat, her gaslighting etc). The gaslighting thing you spoke about rings big alarm bells for me.

One of the incredibly subtle ways a narc can make you doubt yourself is to say that you've done something, just once, and not talk about it again. That one little seed of doubt sown can wreak havoc with your head over a period of time if you allow it to keep creeping into your mind. Providing you don't think about it, once you've refuted it, then it shouldn't be a problem.

I must go now, as I've to drop the DC off to their club, but I'll be back in a bit

Chiggers you are so right. It does keep creeping back into your mind. It has made me question not just what I say, but my tone of voice...not just when I speak to her but with everyone. It's so poisonous as you become paranoid in case you are oblivious to causing other people pain, when you think you're being normal. Eventually that just really gets to your self-esteem and you wonder if people actually even like you. It's soul-destroying.

Glad to know it's a technique and it has a name. Do people who gaslight others consciously do it or do you think they honestly believe what they are saying?

Very interesting to read about the concept of gaslighting... This rings such a familiar bell to a number of incidents in my life relating to my "imagination", also sounds a hell of a lot like narc mother and the flying monkeys who're constantly telling me that by having my privacy I'm a liar who must be punished... Making me question my own ethics and beliefs.

Constantly questioning everything in your life is exhausting.

Turquoise and Orange, you don't have to keep questioning what you did/said. The narc will always try to find something to hold against you to make themselves feel better. They are incredibly insecure people and they deserve nothing else but pity.

I really pity anyone who is a narc because they are so insecure that they make themselves out to be better than they actually are IYSWIM. The victims of narcs need to stop trying to please them because you'll never succeed. It's just an exercise in futility.

My idea of dealing with a narc is to just let them ramble on. While they're bitching about me being a bad person because....... I am usually zoning out and thinking about what I'll be making for tea the next night. All while nodding in the right places to make them think that I'm listening.

I was collared by my uncle (mum's brother, let's call him Fred) and asked why I hadn't phoned mum in the last couple of days (I had been round to the house as I was passing). I told him, and I quote:
"I have phoned mum twice a day every day and I informed her that I had to leave phoning as I had to ring the OU to secure my place and check the progress of the funding. I also had other important calls to make as well. That said, in the last 3yrs, mum has not lifted the phone EVEN ONCE to ask how the DC were doing, even though she is more than capable of ringing and talking to the kids. Our relationship is one sided and it's me doing all the work. It takes two to keep a relationship going and if one side is doing all the work, even those with the patience of a saint will give up when their effort is not being reciprocated".

Narcs can be incredibly subtle, and that how they work. Being so subtle in their interactions with the scapegoat, that others don't realise what's happening and think the scapegoat is being a horrible person to the narc. The narc has effectively pulled the wool over lots of eyes.

By questioning everything you do or say to the narc, you're breaking yourself down and leaving yourselves vulnerable and open to attack from the narcissist. They then break you down even more and so you end up becoming too emotionally and mentally weak to defend yourself against them. This process can take years and usually start when the victim is very young. I would always say "never miss an opportunity to get a smidgen of emotional and mental strength back". You can do this by using the time between attacks to imagine yourself growing stronger. Try and cover that because you don't want to invoke their rage just yet. You want to be at your mentally strongest so that you can cope with the onslaught that will ensue when you become more independent from the narc. Their rage is because you dare to become strong and NOT bow to their command. This panics them because they know as you become more independent, the more chance you have of showing the world how you were treated by this person/these people. Once their cover is blown, they go on damage limitation by blaming you for them being like that/what they did. The problem with this is that some will fall for the narc's "Woe is me" tales, but many will see the narc for who they truly are. And it will be all your fault ("yeah, OK, whatever love, just keep taking you drugs"). Put it this way, if they didn't act the way they did, there wouldn't be anything to show the world (except the usual old boring day-to-day stuff).

Anyway, I'm heading to bed because I'm knackered. I've spent the last 6+ months getting up at 4.30am to get the dogs out for a good morning run and get other things done before the rest of the house drags their sorry bums outta bed .

Will chat again early tomorrow morning folks. I hope I've given you all something to chew on and mull over for a bit. Good night all. I hope you all sleep better tonight and have a better day tomorrow

Chiggers, she doesn't bring anything to my life. She throws money she doesn't have at me sometimes but it just makes me feel icky. She paid for us to go on holiday last November as a Christmas present for example. But she also went on holiday with all my brothers and my dad over Christmas and didn't even ask if I wanted to join them. She also last kicked off just after she booked the holiday (which was what led to no contact last time) which I believe is because she felt se had something over me.

Gaslighting does definitely seem to cover it, I spend half my time in shock at what she does and the other half analysing and questioning what I said, I swing from what a monster to omg is it my fault perhaps if I didn't do this or this.

I tried to send her a closure message last night to outline why I was going to have some space from her (was very basic) but it was mostly just to say I hoped she could be polite and pretend everything is fine for the family wedding so there was no bad feeling at the wedding but it seems she has blocked me from contacting her. It's also occurred to me how selfish it was of her to kick off at me just before this wedding as it's not fair on the happy couple imo and she could have had her say after x

chiggers, helpme, I just wanted to say that if you think you might not have the strength to deal with a confrontation around NC, you don't have to actually have a confrontation. You can text or write and tell them you're going NC, or like me you can just change your bloody phone number and not get back in touch. I know there are practical problems around this sometimes, its easier for some people than others, but the principle is the same for all of us: you do not owe your abusive parent an explanation.

The first reason you don't need to do it is because it's a particularly hard thing for us to do. We've been trained since birth to obey and to manage their emotional state at the expense of our own. It's conditioned into us. Strong as we are in other parts of our life, we may never be able to have a confrontation with our abusive parents that doesn't see us worse off - that doesn't mean we're wrong. It just means that the chains they put on as children can still be rattled.

The second reason you don't need to do it is because they don't deserve the explanation and they won't do anything reasonable with it. Any of us, if we were on bad terms with our children and they came to us and tried to explain we would listen, we'd be desperate to hear what they had to say and see if we could put things right. Not them: for all they talk about love, they basically see it as a game (which only one person can win) so you're there sharing your deepest feelings and all they're trying to do is figure out how to use the information to hurt you and to make you feel once again like you're in the wrong and to keep you in doubt and close to their side.

You are totally allowed to just sidestep the whole fucking thing and just cut contact. You've been abused enough. You don't need to let them do it to you any more.

TBH HelpMe, she has done you a favour by blocking you (saves you having to go NC with her), so enjoy the peace while it lasts. She's realising that the meek little mouse is now roaring and she's probably shitting bricks because she has less and less control over you. While she had control, you did what pleased her and she effectively got away with her nasty behaviour for a long time. Now that you're 'cutting the binders' and separating from her grip, she realises that you could out her for who she really is.

Narcs don't seem to realise that if they don't behave in a horrid manner, then there's nothing to expose.

Your so right toomuch. I finally got my message sent to my mum and she dismissed it all and put me as the problem again, said how hard everything has been for her but nothing is as hard to deal with as I have been etc. I thought about replying but then thought no, she won't listen, there is no point. So I left it and have blocked her from contacting me. She's also said she's not interested anymore which means I can go no contact guilt free. So time to heal and move I for good this time xxx

Chiggers you are so absolutely right! She goes on about the good days when we were best friends, but it was when I was utterly miserable but did what she wanted for a quiet like. She attended 2 of my births as I was scared to say no and I'm say till paying for saying no to the last time I gave birth xxx

TooMuch, you've hit the nail on the head when you say that they use any info to hurt you and bring you down. When a victim is broken down, they use the victim's weakened state to control them.

LOL, when I think about the damage my mum had done to my MH, I realise that I was more determined than ever to drag my mental state out of the abyss my mum had mentally and emotionally beaten into. I'm now out of it, but she doesn't know that, as I'm still acting like I'm in that weakened state. She likes to think she controls me still. I'm letting her think she controls me (to keep her placid), but she doesn't realise I'm manipulating her . I'm just waiting for the right moment to tell her that I'm moving on from her. That's going to be rather explosive, knowing my mum.

When I was mentally and emotionally weak, I imagined I was someone else looking in on my situation. It was then that I saw what mum was up to. I mentally built a shield around me so anything mum said or did was like water off a duck's back. That bought me time to build myself back up again and believe me, it was a very long and hard slog, but I got to where I am now by myself. I'm sure my mum will say that she helped me, but I had to do the work to get where I am mentally.