Best friend - relationship morphing - update [Title edited by MNHQ]

[HandyWoman]

I've a friend locally who I've had a very close relationship for 25yrs. We've been through lots together and live close too, in the normal run of things we see each other a lot. Also good friends with her dh.

These things have caused my friendship with her to change:

My psychotherapy, coming to terms with the the end of my marriage, a falling out we had a couple of months ago re her lunching with my EA ex and his gf while I was going through a shitty time re contact and him playing the 'doting but minimalist dad', which she couldn't/can't understand (mutual close friends don't get why she couldn't see it either). Also her refusing to acknowledge that I can see her dh's uncompromising ways (which would get a rousing LTB on here) are driving her to get some pretty bad physical symptoms because of how anxious/stressed she is. Plus she's been a unnecessarily condescending about me going out dating - a definite whiff of 'well it gets you out of the house, dear, how sweet' rather than 'yey, good on ya' (am certainly not pushing my down anyone's throat - there's not much to report).

Such are the shifting plate techtonics. I just feel like the friendship feels pretty awkward at the moment. I managed to avoid over Xmas (declined NYE invite and NYD walk). She is now texting re lunch date.

It's all very odd. It's the first time our friendship has moved off its terra firma in 25 yrs. How should I handle it???? I can't just avoid her but equally what the hell would I say to her??? The reality is she's having a tough time. But she made it clear talking about it is off limits. I think it challenges her perceptions of me as the struggling ea victim when I'm not that person any more. It's like she wants to be a 'parenty' friend to me, but I don't need it now. In reality she's having a crap time but she still wants to keep the old dynamic and stop me from identifying the blatantly raw deal she's getting from her dh. I til now I've always been v supportive of her DH. But recent events have made that difficult to keep up. It's a but ridiculous now. Yet she's trying to keep up the regular lunch/coffee date thing and carry on as normal.

Help! how the hell do I handle this????

Tried to make this brief. Failed.........

Why, did he abuse her as well?

OMG what a horrible situation.

Doesn't sound like there's a way forwards other than face to face confrontation. Still she can't see this is about what's best for you and making it all about her.

Hope someone comes up with a good suggestion for you. Me, I'd confront but then I'm not you

I have no idea what you do now.
Blimey. It really is all about her isn't it?

She might take that as a real encouragement, stop

This is kind of crazy. Would atomik's tactic work? that you no longer have anything in common? Rinse and repeat.

Stay neutral and don't get emotional or drawn in.

I can understand someone getting very upset at the end of a friendship - we've all been through it - but you have to have a bit of dignity! tbh with everything you've said, the vibes you have from her, she doesn't sound all that particularly sorted or heathy.

Keep strong.

Mmm. She sent me a long text from outside my house with some seriously messed up stuff about 'it was an awful night and I drowned my sorrows and now this, you can't stop other people being civil, can't believe you can let this come between us'

I replied saying I couldn't care less whether our two mutual friends see him but I don't expect my best mate to go out celebrating with him, for his birthday. I said that was a mistake and badly misjudged and she should admit it.

At that point she texted she was sorry so I came home and let her in for a cuppa. She was/is a mess. And I still don't think she 100% understands in what way it's a betrayal. I don't think this comes naturally to her. She's a people pleaser and on some level wants to be able to be mates with him and live in the past. I did point out that my ex has no actual true self and there will always be tension between me and my ex because he resents having to look after the dc and so there is always anger bubbling away somewhere in him. So looking for friendship with him is futile in every sense and will always compromise our friendship.

She admitted she is lonely and in a mess and a people pleaser and feels trapped in her marriage. She started beta blockers today for anxiety (her situation with her h is pretty intolerable) and is having further tests to rule out other stuff. I told her that it must feel awkward for her to be coming to the end of the road physically in somewhat similar circs to my relationship, she admitted this. That there is no point in denying there are similarities. I also told her it isn't fair to endlessly talk about my stuff and pretend hers doesn't exist. She acknowledged she is doing the stereotypical 'become a therapist as a way of avoiding your stuff' thing. I feel for her. She has some massive re balancing to do. And still needs to fully come to terms with the break up of my marriage and what that means. And start opening up to me. I said she could leave her h for a week and comes stay with me.

We are going out for a beer tomorrow evening.

That was a jumble.
But feels like we have started to have a proper conversation.... Am still guarding myself a bit. I dunno.....

Well done OP.
Sounds like she is starting to open up to you.
But she can't be doing the disloyal shit anymore!
Hopefully your situation will give her the impetus she needs to start the leaving process herself and you can help her through it.

well done. really, I think you have opened her eyes , been a true friend, and importantly true to yourself

you should still guard yourself, but you have been a good person

that's a very good start. Maybe something can come of it. I think you're right to guard yourself for a while but it sounds like she's starting to be honest .... as long as she wasn't saying all this just to please you.

Once you are right. Yesterday I was very struck by what a mess my friend is and how I had her down as being much healthier than she is.

Now that I've slept on it I am struck by the fact that maybe said sorry to get me sucked back into to this crap and drama-fuelled engagement.

I've told her I am cancelling tonight (she's
Working til 9pm anyway) while I consider what it all means and told her that I want to help her but she needs to take stock and stop damaging our friendship and that I need adult - to - adult engagement not a repeated pattern of childish wrong decisions and sitting out side the front of my house and refusing to leave.

It may still be that this friendship is in its death throes. If that's the case it will become apparent. But I'm taking the next steps in our friendship at a pace I'm comfortable with and with certain conditions attached. I think what I am doing is withdrawing. Incrementally. But keeping her in the loop.

Well done for saying what you did and still keeping a step back from the friendship. I imagine it was incredibly hard.

That sounds more than fair. She sounds rather a drama llama, albiet in a difficult relationship.

For anyone still remotely interested (probably only me) I saw my own therapist yesterday. This is a woman who is quick to correct me when my perception is skewed. She totally validated my situation re this ex friend and agrees that the ex friend is a mess and has massively betrayed me specially as she knew how I felt when she did this in November.

I have told the ex friend I am not ready to see her and have deleted all her texts and insane emails. I'm sad but enjoying some healthy space away from the madness. The other close friends in our extremely-close foursome are being incredibly supportive. This changes everything, but the change is sadly very necessary.

We are all at a party a week on Sat. That will be very tough. I hope she doesn't create any more drama. But at the moment I have basically decided to keep well away. For weeks and possibly months. Need to stop thinking about it all and move on....

Good on you.

A friend of mine did this. She went totally nc with one of our circle of friends about 8 years ago. They had been friends since school. At the time she struggled to explain how toxic the relationship was for her and I tried to persuade her not to chuck such a long standing friendship. She simply asked me to trust her judgement and I did.
Her ex friend just recently split with her husband (her doing). It seems my friend just saw her bad behaviour earlier and had the courage to name it and set clear boundaries. Still can make social stuff tricky

Well done. As someone who is going through a similar situation, I understand the sadness. I also have guilt. Would be interested to hear how you are feeling in a few months time. Not from a nosiness point of view. Just if it is working for you.

Yeah the guilt. Guilt is the only thing clouding the situation. We really have been extremely close for 25yrs (? too close) and I know she's in trouble. The choice is stay loyal to the friendship and keep on exposing myself to hurtful messy unhealthy crap or - maintain boundaries, walk away and live with the guilt.

You have to look after yourself OP
You have made a sensible decision based on reason and experienced advice
She is responsible for her own shit .
I know I might have said talk to her - but as I see In my own life if people won't listen and then fuck your up

I don't think you have anything to feel guilty about

Handy - Just read your entire thread with fascination from start to finish. I can identify with a great deal of your situation, mine was similar yet quite different.

I was with my EA ex for over 10 years, I couldn't see it at the beginning but his behaviour got progressively worse until I was an utter wreck and absolutely had to get out. Mine is also no help at all....won't help when myself/kids are unwell etc, even when I was bed bound with flu and the poor kids, then much younger, had to fend for themselves ...he did go thorough a bit of a self-promoting, parading the kids phase (although seems to have given up on this now as everyone knows he's an arse).

Bizarrely, not long before I split with Ex I overheard an old friend badmouthing (who at one point I was very close to but had become more distant from). Rather than confronting said friend, I kept it to myself (I did tell EA ex who promptly used it against me )....anyway it finally came out in an unplanned and very messy way, said "friend" denied it, she also told me she'd changed and moved on from such behaviour, etc....Not long after all this we both attended a social function where she felt the need to publicly highlight to everyone there that I had, in the past, before EA ex, made one unsuitable relationship choice and had also had several very healthy, happy relationships . She is a psychologist ----
The woman just wanted to keep me down.

So, avoiding endless rambling about who did what etc etc. I think sometimes you can come to a point in your life when you stop making excuses for people who treat you like shit and see people for who they truly are. It took me nearly 40 years and an excruciatingly painful relationship to realise this but the relief you get from getting a perspective on things is truly liberating.

It is her problem not yours

Badmouthing me

We need to throw away the guilt! Actually talking to other people who know both of us, makes me realise that I am making the right decision for me. My xf is coming over later to give a birthday present to my son. First time I've seen her for about 3/4 weeks. Will be agonising it over later.

...Don't feel guilty

Oh Floo if it's gonna cause you to agonise that's not good. I know my xf would do anything to get me face to face with her. It's messed up.

Just my personality, but working on it with my therapist too . Feels weird calling her an xf, but I am going to have to get used to the fact that is what she is. It all came to a head before Christmas, when she became increasingly possessive about me socialising with others, sending me messages asking why she wasn't invited . Then sending me a message saying it was making her ill . So all very new and fresh, and I haven't seen her since. I appreciate that there are two sides, which is why speaking to others who know both of us and the situation seeing my point of view has helped. Anyhow, that's enough about me, and didn't want to hijack your thread (not been brave enough to post on here and get the trolls).

handy I suspect that if you stay too close to this woman she will drag you down.

I have told the ex friend I am not ready to see her and have deleted all her texts and insane emails This is not a woman who is in a stable place.

Regarding the party, I think you have to -plan- how to handle it. Chances are she'll get dramatic. I think you need to go in on your guard and determined to keep calm and neutral. Can you leave early if you have to? Also, do you know anyone who can guard-dog you? Literally someone who can step between you and head her off if she starts pulling tears and dramatics?

It's not impossible that in the long term you can reestablish the friendship, but it will need time, space and for your friend to get a grip.

Thanks Once yes I've started thinking about my strategy for the party. It's a week today. It's on a work weekend so I'll be driving. I'm going to speak to one of the other 4 friends whose H I get on well with -he doesn't know a lot of the people there very well. He sees the xf situation for what it is and has already shared his own insight. I'm going to ask if I can use him as my human shield.

Ex f's H will also be an issue. He has counted me as a good friend, although recently i don't feel the same at all. I think I'll stay at the party long enough to be polite then leave. It pisses me off massively that I have to do this as the one who's already suffered the social loss associated with divorce. If they were emotionally mature and considerate they would probably only stay briefly and give me a wide berth. But xf and her H will drink lots of alcohol and stay all night and it's going to be uncomfortable. Stupid stupid stupid xf.