Best friend - relationship morphing - update [Title edited by MNHQ]

[HandyWoman]

I've a friend locally who I've had a very close relationship for 25yrs. We've been through lots together and live close too, in the normal run of things we see each other a lot. Also good friends with her dh.

These things have caused my friendship with her to change:

My psychotherapy, coming to terms with the the end of my marriage, a falling out we had a couple of months ago re her lunching with my EA ex and his gf while I was going through a shitty time re contact and him playing the 'doting but minimalist dad', which she couldn't/can't understand (mutual close friends don't get why she couldn't see it either). Also her refusing to acknowledge that I can see her dh's uncompromising ways (which would get a rousing LTB on here) are driving her to get some pretty bad physical symptoms because of how anxious/stressed she is. Plus she's been a unnecessarily condescending about me going out dating - a definite whiff of 'well it gets you out of the house, dear, how sweet' rather than 'yey, good on ya' (am certainly not pushing my down anyone's throat - there's not much to report).

Such are the shifting plate techtonics. I just feel like the friendship feels pretty awkward at the moment. I managed to avoid over Xmas (declined NYE invite and NYD walk). She is now texting re lunch date.

It's all very odd. It's the first time our friendship has moved off its terra firma in 25 yrs. How should I handle it???? I can't just avoid her but equally what the hell would I say to her??? The reality is she's having a tough time. But she made it clear talking about it is off limits. I think it challenges her perceptions of me as the struggling ea victim when I'm not that person any more. It's like she wants to be a 'parenty' friend to me, but I don't need it now. In reality she's having a crap time but she still wants to keep the old dynamic and stop me from identifying the blatantly raw deal she's getting from her dh. I til now I've always been v supportive of her DH. But recent events have made that difficult to keep up. It's a but ridiculous now. Yet she's trying to keep up the regular lunch/coffee date thing and carry on as normal.

Help! how the hell do I handle this????

Tried to make this brief. Failed.........

The lunch thing alone and refusal to acknowledge that betrayal, or that your ex was abusive, would be enough for me to take a big step back in the friendship.

I know a few (IMO) messed up mental health professionals / counsellors!

Hi had to reply to this thread . I had very similar friend and I cut ties. She had me so worn down that one evening I just said I've had enough I c ant deal with her anymore but what had me frightened was how was I going to end this friendship. I rang a counsellor and made my appointment . She was shocked at how badly she had treated me and helped me compose an email to send and that would be it . She was telling me how it would me taking back the control from her . Like your friend my one worked in job " helping people " she loved to hear of anyone having problems I think it actual made her feel better about herself .
These kind of people project massively on to you .

Sorry I rambled on there a bit.

Handy

I did love.

And a huge fuss. HUGE.

My default position had always been to be nice and not hurt people, even if that wasn't great for me. So I found it very hard going. In the end I just stuck to a repeated blurb "We no longer have enough common ground to sustain a friendship, to attempt to do so would be unfair to both of us, so I'm not going to do that and I am not going to change my mind"

Very formal, very neutral, no extra added details, very repeated ... ad infinitum. It was also useful to use on the mutual friends and acquaintances she got to phone me, in order to sound me out and attempt to "mediate". Every angle they came at, I just repeated it. I had no interest in other people's desire to post mortum, dissect whose fault it was for X,Y, Z part or be emotionally blackmailed back into something I knew in my gut was not good for me at all.

Eventually she gave up. And it was worth every bleeding second of feeling crap to get there. I lost some other friends/aquaintances as part of the package. Still worth it.

Freinds are supposed to add to each other's lives. Bring a little light when things are gloomy, double the laughter in the good times. You aren't supposed to have a growing, nagging feeling that you need to protect yourself from somebody who claims to be your mate.

Phew, Atomik
This person has central to pretty much every thing in my life for 25 years. She is part of a foursome of friends who have been lucky to do amazing stuff together over the years. Cutting her off has massive implications, massive ones. But it's gotta be done. I thought she was a big support to me but she was eating up the drama. Now I'm ok she spitting me out. Never considered that this would even slightly be possible - mutual friends will get it but it will really shake things up. Perhaps it won't be forever but it's gotta be done. There's a wedding (one of the four of us) this year too. Fuck. So utterly weird how life turns out.

Sometimes - not being bitter at all - it is only when you cut the person out of your life that you realise what an undermining influence they have been.

I don't think you need to cut her out but you can take a football field step back. Speck on the landscape.

If she/you weren't enmeshed in a huge social circle then I'd say cut her off entirely - but that isn't the case. From this point on your laydee diverge and will get further and further apart as time goes on.

I think Atomics approach is brutal, personally (sorry Atomik) but maybe I'm currently lulled by not having anyone toxic at close quarters and I forget how brutal one needs to be sometimes. I would still give some headings why we 'no longer have common ground' - it is surely a headfuck to have no concrete reason at all. Yy I get it they use it to fuck one over some more but you could hinge it on that lunch and get statementy about that re it was an outright betrayal and she a toxic bitch to have done it then feigned incomprehension etc

Laydee?? Paths!

Loyalty is a big thing for me and I think your "bestie"is well out of order going to lunch with your ex and his gf, especially after how he's been treating you. Most people feel protective towards their friends and don't even talk to never mind go out for lunch with people who hurt them. Foot up ass time, off u go, bye bye bestie.

I think Atomics approach is brutal, personally (sorry Atomik)

Don't apologise. It was brutal. It had to be.

Becuase a large step back isn't effective if the other person takes one forward to keep in your face. It only works if the other person may not understand, feel hurt, or unfairly maligned...but still lets you put some space there, which then leaves room for either a later chance to work things through when everybody's hurt isn't so fresh and stingy, or a gentle fizzling out.

Based on this..

I want to quietly disengage from her but she's not going to let me. When I told her I didn't want to see her until she recognised why I was upset re the lunch she hounded me on the phone with back-to-back calls and eventually turned up on my doorstep (whilst crying and maintaining she didn't know what she'd done wrong).

... I have a suspicion that the OP may not be allowed to just take a quietstep back.

it is surely a headfuck to have no concrete reason at all.

I gave my friend the real reason why right in the very beginning. The OP has done the same. But if the other person says they don't understand, or accept that reason...it gets to the point where all the debate over whether those reasons are good enough, strictly valid , totally wrong etc just makes for a very slowly inched off sticking plaster.

So rather than going over and over old ground, something simple, bland, neutral, easy to repeat gives you a way to manage a barrage of unwanted contact on your doorstep (and via email/phone from everybody else being encouraged to get involved) until it stops. There's something about a calmly repeated phrase that makes people more inclined to stop beating a dead horse. Whereas one more chance to leap into a defence of actions and how very very unreasonable you are to hold your own perception of them.... not so good at the stopping of the very determined.

Probably 99.9% of friendships that have had their day, or aren't good enough quality to continue need a far less axe shaped ending. And then the large step back comes into its own. No muss, no fuss, no drama.

The other 0.1% can need some fairly rapid and determined chopping.

Your friendship is now on a different level. Leave both of them to it and get on with your life without being rude. Turn down invitations if you don't want to hear anything she has to say and just send her the odd supportive message if you need to.

It is disloyal of her, and in fact him, as he knows you are/were friends and might be doing it for his own agenda whatever that might be.

Keep your head up, it has happened to many of us, including me.

Don't worry about social stuff, eg a wedding should be fine: often lots of people around and structure to the day, even with small weddings, can avoid people!

I like the bland, broken-record statement to the friend and others who interfere, it avoids having to get embroiled in discussion or justifying your decisions on how much (if any) contact to have.

I'm somewhat late to this discussion but would like to add my very slight variation to what's being said.

I actually think that she is used to using you to validate her own life choices.

Her seeing your ex may well have been because she needs to think he's not all that bad, as she needs to think the same about her own partner or take a step she is not currently able to do.
This would explain her reluctance to discuss her own situation now. Because you are now invalidating it, and her choice to stay. She is very likely aware of this (at least in the abstact _ although she may not have it quite so consciously in her mind ) and the only way to make herself "right" it's to put you back into the same position as her, get you to admit your choice to leave was wrong, or invalidate your current choices.
All the time you have been saying how hard and desperate it has been since you left, (also not really hearing the good bits because she didn't want to) she has been validated, the more you find your feet, the less validated she is and the more she dosnt hear you.

Ok so, managed so far to lie low and not see the friend.

Crawled into bed last night and checked ye olde BookFace - saw that my ex's gf tagged my bestie in a post saying what a brilliant night celebrating my ex's birthday.

So I have now sent my 'bestie' an email kindly pointing out why our friendship is definitely over.

Am sad but also quite surprised at the feeling of liberation.

Just waiting for the shitstorm now....

Ouch. Understandable decision! Sad that a once good friendship went this way.

Good tips above from PPs on avoiding hassle from others or having to engage in discussion with her!

It does really feel like another step forward in my recovery.....

Dear god she's an arsehole.
You are well shot of her.
That is pure bitch territory.
Sorry but it is.

She's made her choice and it's not one you're comfortable with.

You don't have to say any more.

665's post is very insightful, I think. Best of luck, OP, you're moving on and up

I never thought about it before. It didn't occur to me to force my friends to choose between me and my ex. Makes no odds to me if they see him or not.

She's sent me a very text offering to cancel a meeting and have lunch. I just told her there's nothing to say and to leave me alone.

She has followed this up with a predictable email response. She's actually saying that my ex and his mates made her and her h feel very uncomfortable and they 'huddled in a corner' - ha!!!! Anyone who knows this woman will know she is an expert socialite and that the chances of that being true are zero. Its irrelevant anyway.

Also predictable is that she is telling me she is crying and 'we' (her and h, she tries to make us a threesome at all times like this) can't believe I'm doing this and that I know she would never hurt me. She's saying I'm throwing it away.

She's nuts.

I told her she is at best naive/developed an empathy bypass and at worst is simply trying to hurt me and that you can't play with fire and be surprised when you get burned.

gamer it kinda depends on the circumstances doesn't it. Context is everything.

Gamer, there's a big backstory here, and this is a close friend and an abusive ex.

She's outside my house refusing to leave. Telling me she's crying. Am on a dog walk elsewhere. The phone calls started so I've had my phone off for a bit. It's every bit as grim as I thought it would be. I just want her to naff off. Gotta pick dd up from school 3:15.

What do I do???

I think given her state of distress some mercy might be required TBH.

she has not killed anyone, she is just a confused woman, who cant face up to the fact that your future invalidates her present, or something like that

I have RTWT but I think is she is this upset, some mercy? I am not saying make friends again- but just offer her a cup of tear and a hearing

why is she so upset, let her speak, say nothing and might be interesting

Going through a similar situation with withdrawing from a friendship. I went off FB because of needy messages, now having needy texts. At least she is not outside my house, yet. No real advice, just support. Hope your dog walk went well.