Best friend - relationship morphing - update [Title edited by MNHQ]

[HandyWoman]

I've a friend locally who I've had a very close relationship for 25yrs. We've been through lots together and live close too, in the normal run of things we see each other a lot. Also good friends with her dh.

These things have caused my friendship with her to change:

My psychotherapy, coming to terms with the the end of my marriage, a falling out we had a couple of months ago re her lunching with my EA ex and his gf while I was going through a shitty time re contact and him playing the 'doting but minimalist dad', which she couldn't/can't understand (mutual close friends don't get why she couldn't see it either). Also her refusing to acknowledge that I can see her dh's uncompromising ways (which would get a rousing LTB on here) are driving her to get some pretty bad physical symptoms because of how anxious/stressed she is. Plus she's been a unnecessarily condescending about me going out dating - a definite whiff of 'well it gets you out of the house, dear, how sweet' rather than 'yey, good on ya' (am certainly not pushing my down anyone's throat - there's not much to report).

Such are the shifting plate techtonics. I just feel like the friendship feels pretty awkward at the moment. I managed to avoid over Xmas (declined NYE invite and NYD walk). She is now texting re lunch date.

It's all very odd. It's the first time our friendship has moved off its terra firma in 25 yrs. How should I handle it???? I can't just avoid her but equally what the hell would I say to her??? The reality is she's having a tough time. But she made it clear talking about it is off limits. I think it challenges her perceptions of me as the struggling ea victim when I'm not that person any more. It's like she wants to be a 'parenty' friend to me, but I don't need it now. In reality she's having a crap time but she still wants to keep the old dynamic and stop me from identifying the blatantly raw deal she's getting from her dh. I til now I've always been v supportive of her DH. But recent events have made that difficult to keep up. It's a but ridiculous now. Yet she's trying to keep up the regular lunch/coffee date thing and carry on as normal.

Help! how the hell do I handle this????

Tried to make this brief. Failed.........

Goodness me handywoman you're getting a hard time here.

Thanks Once

I think we all want to help our friends.
One of my friends was in a horrible relationship.
We discussed it at length and she eventually ended it.
She is so much happier now and she puts that down to her friends and being able to talk things through without any judgement.
OP is NOT judging her friend she is wanting to help her. Nothing at all wrong with that.
Of course the friendship is about both of them. That's how it works.
OP has changed, become stronger and friend is having are hard time dealing with that due to the shit situation she is in and won't get out of.
She is trying to make OP feel crappy about dating etc... due to her own insecurities.
Hardly OP's fault.

And the lunch - happened after she hadn't seen the Ex for 2 1/2 years FFS. Hardly like she was good friends with him. She knew what he had put Handy through and chose to basically be unfaithful to her friend of 25 years (that's how it would seem in my eyes anyway)

OP came here for support and has done nothing wrong so what's with the nasty comments? Odd!

I'm intrigued as to how this cosy lunch with the Ex and his gf came about, given she hadn't seen him for 2 1/2 years. How did she engineer it?

Well she is also good friends with a mutual friend of his. And so a nice family lunch got suggested. In the very same week I had told her I was on the edge of fricking exhaustion and feeling like ex was taking me for a fool and using the dc to further his image as a great dad on my work weekends leaving me zero time away from kids/work. Don't know how it came about. She said it was 'spur of the moment' and dismissed it as not important but the timing was shocking.

I think people do play a 'role' within a friendship group and sometimes people don't like it when those roles change.

My friend is recently separated and is considering starting dating and whilst most of us are excited for her, one friend is being really negative about it. Separated friend has recently lost a lot of weight and looks way more vibrant and is more confident etc...I get the impression that other friend wants her back in her previous box of downtrodden overweight friend. It's weird.

That's what I see in your situation.

You maybe need to distance yourself for a time while you review the friendship.

Your friend may feel threatened by the "new confident" you who has escaped an EA relationship and who is moving on with her life. She may see a reflection of her own relationship and her own failure to do anything about it - hence her need to "bring you down".

However you can't force her to see that. One of the things I've learnt from reading about EA relationships on MN is that the individual has to be ready to see it for themself. You can't make her "see" it - you'll only build the defences up and increase the denial. All you can do is be there for if/when she is ready.

its nigh on impossible to maintain the friendship as there is a HUGE integrity bust

in that you have escaped an EA relationship, and are moving on
she is still in one, and refuses to acknowledge it, but what's worse is this sounds like she wont acknowledge how bad your ex was (as evidenced by her being all pally with him)

Its like a massive fucking elephant on table!

Its your call, but its understandable the relationship falters as so much cant be said, and cant be discussed- its just fake?

I had a friend (not as close) and we both had EA relationships. I am still trying to disentangle. whereas she has got back with hers and is all lovey dovey.

personally I cant see it sustaining, but I keep that to myself. but she keep sending me cloying texts asking sympathetically how I am. I don't think she is concerned, she just wants to make herself feel better

anyway back to YOU- not sure what u do but 10000% understand why it feels odd

and so a nice family lunch got suggested

Sorry to bang on about this, but who was at this lunch? Who suggested it?

I think it's very significant.

Don't know how it came about, didn't ask, didn't feel significant at the time, I was just gutted she chose to go along & play happy lovely families with them.

I can understand your view but as was just posted on another thread about DV, being ready to see, confront or leave is a process that can't be forced.

It took me 23 years to be ready to face up to my past. If somebody was trying to get me to this point before I was ready I'd have not kept them in my life and let an ally.

It's hard but sometimes what you need is relief from your reality, and if your friendship isn't offering that relief then not only are you endangering the friendship, you're removing yourself from her life for when she is ready.

It really has to be about her and her current needs, not you trying to save her as you wish somebody could have done for you. There aren't any shortcuts

She has the right to lunch wth your ex.

Yes she has.

But it's fantastically disloyal of her.

Why should people have to pick 'sides'

And you can respond in any way you choose.

As can OPs friend.

It's like she wants to be a 'parenty' friend to me

That might be the motivation for having lunch with those particular people.

You aren't her "lame duck" anymore. If your previous "lame duckness" played a significant role in her feeling better about herself by comparison, sticking a leg out to trip you up and maybe try and get some lameness back might look attractive.

Making you unhappy might be the last tool she had left in her toolbox.

If anything in that makes you think... hmm.. might not be wholly without foundation, tred carefully. Becuase sabotagueing a mate who no longer limps can be habit forming.

I imagine you were discussed at that lunch.

You know, in a nutshell, she is a close friend who is driving herself head long into a brick wall (physically and mentally - whatever she decides emotionally is her lookout). I won't ever feel bad for trying to reach out after six months of this shit to say 'I'm worried about you'. cos we've seen each other through much worse things than my EA relationship over the years and that's always been the deal.

But the recent condescending comments and betrayal re the timing of lunch with ex-h - it's a bit bonkers... Maybe I'm the last person to pull away from taking her dh seriously and I'm being punished.

She's just texted me again. It's like I'm being played with. I want to quietly disengage from her but she's not going to let me. When I told her I didn't want to see her until she recognised why I was upset re the lunch she hounded me on the phone with back-to-back calls and eventually turned up on my doorstep (whilst crying and maintaining she didn't know what she'd done wrong).

Atomik I think you're right.

Sigh.....

She sounds pretty awful, to me. Manipulative, draining and tedious. I honestly couldn't be arsed with it all.

If you changed 'bad relationship' to 'booze' it would be understandable if you and your mate, previously problem drinkers, then you got into recovery. Bad sentence, hope you get the gist - bcs this isn't so different. She has gravitated to the 'drinkers' bcs this is where she wants to stay - but she's in denial about it and making out it's your problem by patronising you, being dismissive ["what? I don't see the problem"]. She has made clear her alliance by that lunch.

You're effectively 'in recovery' and, yes, one does see things more clearly. Whereas previously you may both have blundered on doing the same harmful thing, now you've stepped out and your eyes will be opened. You're not analysing her, you can just see more clearly.

Aside from any of that, that lunch was treachery. Judas.

It's like I'm being played with. I want to quietly disengage from her but she's not going to let me. When I told her I didn't want to see her until she recognised why I was upset re the lunch she hounded me on the phone with back-to-back calls and eventually turned up on my doorstep (whilst crying and maintaining she didn't know what she'd done wrong)

This may be off the wall but in the light of atomik's post and her hounding you at one point ....

is there any chance she became a therapist because actually she needs help herself?

If this texting carries on, it's going to either grind you down or you're going to have to tell her to stop contacting you in no uncertain terms.

It's really hard to contemplate the ending of a 25 year friendship and hopefully she'll calm down but right now she's being a bit unnerving.

You poor thing. Your so called 'friend' has been fantastically disloyal. You can bet your bottom dollar you were the top discussion subject at that table. And that she's in touch with him regularly discussing you and your separation.

I'm speaking from bitter experience. My so called friend invited my bullying ex to live with her and her OH when we split. I was left looking for a flat on my own for the first time in my life completely heart broken(I lost 3 stone in a month, attempted suicide, it was really really awful). When I got upset about the disloyalty of the situation she brought me anger management leaflets. I broke contact and have never seen either of them since. Happily married to a nice man now, but God I know what that feels like.

Your friend is not a friend. Cut her loose. I hope you find happiness again soon.
And people giving the OP grief ffs, don't you think she's having a shit enough time of it??!!

The lunch with your ex thing would be unforgivable for me. Ok, a wider circl of friends needn't pick sides. But a best friend? I'd be right by my best mate's side whatever situation she was in. In fact, I've stood by her when she's been in the wrong many times at the end of various relationships because she's my best mate.

Dreamies there are a number of people on this site at the moment who are using it, it appears, solely to give various OPs grief - it's almost vampiric and it's doing MN and its ethos no good at all.

Was discussing today with another v close mutual friend B (who I've known for a similar length of time) who said she felt when aforementioned friend A decided to train as a therapist it was a way of ensuring she never moved on from her own shit. And has also disclosed something else slightly unnerving. That when she (friend B) was in a relationship with a man who was secretly using drugs whilst we were all saying she was worth more, and should leave, that friend A strangely 'revelled in it' (as B put it) and said to B 'we've both chosen crazy men and need to learn to deal with it.'

The scales really are falling from my eyes. Springy I think you are spot on. Thank you. I'm going to prepare to be upfront soon with Friend A if she continues to pester to meet. Which she will.

There is a big joint birthday party we'll be at at the end of the month. Not great timing. I'm prepared to probably go sober and not stay very long maybe. Mmmmmmmm, going to be tricky, but I can't be around this shite.

Handy

It can be a struggle to get away. Which feels like crap. But ... oh the relief when it's over.

I had no idea how much my rise from lameness had been hindered and slowed until I no longer had the vice like grip on my ankle trying to keep me down where I was needed.

Did you go through similar with a friend, Atomik ?

Did they make much of a fuss before letting go?