"But we took you to Stately Homes!" Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer]

It's November '15, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March - Nov 2015

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Thanks, 665 - your post made me laugh, I think you are spot on!

Hello fuckit :)

Imust

Of course you are right to feel let down. Also he has and will continue to let you down as well. That is typical behaviour from a narcissist as well as being an arse. He indeed only offered to help you so he could feel good about doing that.

It is not possible to have any sort of relationship with him and I would further lower contact to zero.

can i please ask for your views on the latest round in the game of 'who has let down whom' with my dad? Refuse to play the game anymore, you are wasting your time. And no, you are not wrong to feel let down.

He seemed so outraged to be held to account, it does make you doubt yourself!

Yes, it was meant to make you doubt yourself!

Because he'd rather you feel bad than he does.

The correct response from him if he was a decent father would have been 'Oh sorry darling, I forgot. How much did we say? I'll put it in your bank today.'

I have checked. The word 'sorry' does not appear.

It's I'm the subtext
As in
"I am a sorry f*er who doesn't keep their promises"

Fucker and father being interchangable in this context

Welcome ofuckit :)

my story probably isn't as bad as most on here
Literally everyone says this. You've passed the secret initiation

Have some and . I suggest starting with the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers website as well as some of the past threads.

Thank you pocket, I will have a look at that website. I also read a sample from Toxic Parents and have just ordered a copy. I'm trying to look upon this as a bit of a project

Good evening folks, made some fresh brew so help yourself to the tea and cake

I've just had a rough few days as my OFCH boiler broke down due to a leak that had covered the electrics situated with the boiler. So our house has been like a fridge. On the up-side, when we wake up, the cold really wakes us up in no time at all .

My dad also had a stroke, so I've been visiting him in hospital. He has been so apologetic about my childhood and full of regret for not doing more to protect me from my mum. I have forgiven him and he told me he loved me and always had. He was sorry he didn't show it enough, but he was depressed and not himself for a long while. I understand that he was the way he was due to the depression and not something I had done, as he had reassured me.

I went to my DP's house to see if mum needed anything from the shops, then the tirade came with "You're only being nice so that you'll get something out of us when we go. Well, I'm telling you that I've written you out of my will", to which I replied with a smile "That's absolutely fine by me. It's not my money anyway, so you can do what you want with it". That took the wind out of her sails in a major way. Little did she know that dad changed his will to leave me most of his half as he found out that mum left me out of hers, so my DB's get mum's divided up, but it turns out that with my share from dad, I actually get more than each of my DB's. My youngest and older DB know and are happy with that as they know what mum has been like to me over the years, but my younger brother doesn't as he would go and whine to mum how unfair things are and that would start off a major bitchfest from mum.

Anyway, enough about my disasters, how are you all on here? I hope you're all well.

Oh chiggers I'm sorry to hear about your dad's stroke, and glad you got to talk. My dad suffered from depression too, undiagnosed till near the end of his life - he had a shit old time of it with my mum and while I wish he'd done more to shield me from her I mostly just remember him as a great friend and probably the main reason I'm not even more of a nutter than I am.

*
I'm laughing a bit reading about all these horrifically difficult babies you all were! My mother is a covert narcissist so I was the perfect baby - slept through from birth apparently . Nothing bad ever happens around my mother, she's just a humble but proud mother and grandmother who can't understand why her daughter has stopped answering her letters... sorry I'm going to stop now I'm freaking myself out. One thing though - did anyone see that Channel 4 documentary with the 4 year olds in preschool and the researchers watching on hidden cameras? It was on when my mother visited us and she was really disgusted watching these perfectly normal little 4 year olds having intrigues and falling out with each other and stuff - she seriously was saying that one of the little girls was "evil" and "you'd have to watch her". Trying to get her to connect with reality I was like "but all little kids have fallings out and change allegiances and stuff. It must have happened on the street when you were a kid,no?" (They grew up on a council estate teeming with kids). And she was like "no, nobody fell out like that. I think maybe we were too poor to be like that." Seriously. Too poor to lie or disagree. Christ eh, get off the cross, we need the wood.

I've taken a few days to digest spilling my guts about my sexual assault. I feel numb, empty, almost unattached to reality. The days have drifted by and I cannot remember much of anything. There's this deep level of pain, no doubt exacerbated by my ME, but also pain on a mental level.

I recall things such as "Males cannot be sexually assaulted/raped" being extolled by slime balls visionaries over years not too long gone. This hurts even more and back when it happened significantly more so, it just wasn't considered to happen, the shame set in that fateful date and grew day on day, month on month, year after year and decade into decade. So many years of conditioning myself, being hurt by it, being ashamed and shameful thoughts residing in my mind.

Thank you for all the kind and supportive words - I definitely don't consider myself strong, or amazing, in relation to this, or treatment at the hands of my mother.

My ME symptoms started sharply Jan 2011, we'd moved home the August prior and I noticed fatigue and pain levels in every bodily joint rising notably. Within two weeks I was completely bedbound. Have been on a cocktail of drugs since.

A lot of ME sufferers are insistent the condition has no relevance to their mental wellbeing. I dispute this. I was very active prior to our move, always had been. I believe the brain is capable of holding tremendous amounts of stress and strain - and also believe everyone has a breaking limit before this manifests in physical symptoms. My research shows that pain is being regarded more and more as a neurophysiological response too, and the brain causes neurotransmitters to fire in the body.

I highly recommend Suzanne O'Sullivans book - "It's All In Your Head". She is a neurologist and the books forms around the story of eight patients. It's a captivating and enthralling read.

Chiggers - i am so sorry to hear your father has suffered a stroke, very best wishes.

To Hissy, Attila, Pocket and everyone that's posted - your support means so, so much to me. This thread has opened my eyes so much, I really cannot thank you enough.

Hi fuckit - got real pleasure typing that!

Chiggers - sending you and your dad all good wishes and I hope that the boiler gets fixed soon - it's blowing a hoolie round these parts and bloody freezing. Thanks for the tea and cakes. If I could work out how to use the emoticons, I'd return the favour.

Serioussteve I really, really hope that things start shifting for you. Agree with you about ME and potential root cause/manifestation.

Hi. Been wondering whether to post on here for a while. Hope this isn't too long and rambling.

I'm finding my mother increasingly difficult the older we get. She's always wanted at least some control of every aspect of my life - and now I'm a wife and mother I'm finding it too intrusive and unwelcome.

I grew up feeling safe and cared for but with absolutely no self esteem. My mother's way is to make someone the butt of the joke. So when I was a teen...my feet were "never made for dancing", my eyes (like hers) were "nice but a shame you've got the family lazy eye" (I don't), my hair "looks so unkempt and messy" (I like the beach look!), my weight "I just think it is such a shame you don't want to make an effort with your appearance" (put on a bit when I moved cities and was struggling with a relationship breakdown..only one dress size!) My clothes, my make up, my friends, my flats, my relationships, everything was commented on in a negative way. It was exhausting. It still is. Now it is my husband, his job, his mother, his family, the kids, their schooling, their behaviour, their eating, their sleeping, my cleaning, my organisation, my routine.

I feel like nothing I ever do has ever, or will ever, be good enough. I'm sick of trying, and I'm sick of caring. I feel resentful she didn't encourage or nurture my interests and wasn't kind, supportive, understanding growing up...she never had time for me. All she wants to do is criticise and belittle me. She still makes me the butt of the joke and it bothers me she does it to the kids. She thinks she's so funny.

She oversteps boundaries constantly. She's coming to stay for a fortnight in a few days and I'm exhausted at the thought.

Sorry...feels good to get that all out :-)

Why do you feel you have to invite her to your home? She sounds terrible.

I live abroad and they basically invite themselves every few months.

giveme

FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) are but three of many damaging legacies left by such people to their now adult offspring.

Did you invite her or did she invite her own self along?. Could you now cancel her visit?. Cite family illness or work pressures?. Tell her anyway that she will now have to stay in a hotel.

She was and is not a good parent to you and it will do your children no favours whatsoever to have you as their mother so disrespected within their own home. If she is too toxic/difficult for you to deal with its the same deal for them also.

I see that these people have invited themselves; even more reason therefore to call the whole thing off and now. At the very least they will need to find alternative accommodation and if they do not like it tough.

You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, family are no different.

So as not to dripfeed, my father has a serious disability and this is why I feel I can't say no. They love the grandkids, really dote on them. I just feel the need to keep a watchful eye. The last time she mimicked my four year old and upset her.

Your father having a disability is no good reason to allow either of them to stay with you in your home; after all they have invited themselves along.
He has also acted likely as her enabler here and has certainly failed to protect you from her particularly when you were a child.

Such people do not love their grandchildren either but use them as narcissistic supply.

As for keeping a watchful eye, well the damage is happening right in front of your very eyes. She will mock your children again under your roof, she continues to cock a snook at you. The last thing they need is to be further mocked by their grandmother.

There are several recurring experiences on this thread. Things we all experience, but probably thought , 'it's just me'

I have just ordered a book, suggested on here, 'Will I ever be good enough' so I am eagerly awaiting its arrival.

For most of us the hurtful remarks go so deep that when we remember them, we can often recall exactly when and where they were said.

I also find that if you repeat the remark to a real person, although they may be appalled, you wonder what they are really thinking.
All mothers say those things,
It was 40 years ago, time to move on.
Well you know it wasn't true, so why are you worrying about it.

Possibly they are not thinking any of those things. Sadly our sense of self worth has taken such a bashing, that it is hard to see sympathy even when it is meant.

Here is one I have never told anyone.
My 13th birthday. My lovely dad and bought me a Max Factor Make up set.
He was pretty clueless so bought me the same stuff my my mum wore. It was in a Purple, Heart shaped box, with puffy white satin.

My mum had invited the relatives over. Aunties, uncles and cousins between 10 and 15 years old. She bought me a dress suitable for an 8 year old. I came downstairs with the new make up on and this is what she said

"What have you done to yourself, you like a tart"

Then to the relatives

"Just because she's growing titties she thinks she's grown up"

I went upstairs and washed it off, my dad followed me and apologised saying it was all his fault for buying it.

For the rest of the week she went on and on about showing her up. She told me to put the make up in the bin.

So happy birthday to me. A dress that made me look ridiculous and 12 people staring at my chest.

giveme welcome to the thread. Have you read the links at the beginning of the thread, they are really good. Toxic Parents by Susan forward I think, is a really good book to start getting your head around things. I think you need to try to stop this visit, make an excuse, and then really lower contact. It's not easy, but the mimicking your 4 yr old and upsetting her is really out of order, really nasty. You need some emotional distance between you and them.
What's your relationship like with your dad?

OMFG florentina I will be your RL person who is utterly appalled, and no, I'm not thinking "all mothers' say that" or "it was 40 years ago" or "it was you". fuck me, that's AWFUL.