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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

uh-oh I feel trouble brewing...

122 replies

poppiesinalinewithtinsel · 03/12/2006 13:09

At a family do 3 years ago my BIL (my sisters husband) who doesnt 'do' children lost his temper with my DS1 (who was 6 at the time) and picked him up by his throat and threw his across the room. Neither DH or myself witnessed this but found DS1 crying in a corner a few moments later with red marks around his throat By the time we managed to ascertain what had happened BIL had gone.

I telephoned my sister the next day to talk to her about it (I was on the phone for 1 1/2 hours to her) and basically she said that it was DS1's fault because he shouldnt have wound BIL up. WTF!!? I put my view across very plainly and ended up saying that we would have to agree to disagree as I didnt want to fall out with her about it.

We havent seen my BIL since. I have seen my sister. He doesnt normally come to any family do's because he doesnt like being around people.

Anyway, I seem to have landed with hosting Christmas afternoon with the family round my house. I assumed BIL would not come as per usual which is fine by us.

Sister has announced that yes, he will be coming.

DH says he is still waiting for his apology. This could be a very interesting Christmas afternoon.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/12/2006 16:19

"You are right. People are scared of him and do walk on eggshells around him. You are right. He is a bully".

Bullies like to make other people feel bad. He's doing a bang up job here. You need to remember that you are in the right and he is in the wrong. Your resolve must not waiver.

"DS1 doesnt remember him or the incident".

But you do...

He has hit children twice now to your knowledge; he has therefore proven he can do this again. Particularly as he has not been brought to book by the authorities.

Make that phone call to your sister. Your childrens' home/sanctuary cannot and should not be violated by this brute. How would your eldest feel if he saw you chatting away to these two people?. He may not remember the incident but you cannot be entirely sure of what's in his mind. He will be aware that he has not seen them since than time.

I tell you something else - I bet this guy in question is one of these "upstanding members of the community" i.e appears to be a great man with a responsible job to all in the outside world but amongst his own family a tyrant.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/12/2006 16:27

How did your sister react that afternoon after your child had been attacked by her husband?. Did BIl leave with his wife?.

She after all said that it was your son's fault because he should not have wound him up?.

You need to re-read your original post.
Do you really want such people in your house on Christmas let alone in your lives?.

Leslaki · 03/12/2006 16:27

\if you can't phone her and tell her BIL is not welcome, why don't you or dh write her a wee leter instead? Might be easier and once it's posted it's gone and you can't back out.
Good luck. Thinking of you but I'm with the majority here - NO WAY would that man get anywhere near my children.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/12/2006 16:30

No more quivering!!

Abusers rely on others to keep quiet. This is how they keep getting away with doing what they do.

DumbledoresGirl · 03/12/2006 16:49

Crikey Poppies, I wish you luck with this one.

FWIW, I would have had the big confrontation 3 years ago when the incident happened, and in your situation now, I would simply make sure BIL was not left alone with my children (not hard to achieve given that the whole family will be there and, as you said, you do not live in a huge mansion!) He sounds like a complete social misfit, but he is married to your sister and Christmas is a time for families so I couldn't see myself causing such a disturbance as to not allow him into my house, along with all other family members, for a few hours.

DumbledoresGirl · 03/12/2006 16:52

I know I am going to be shouted down here, but I do have to say a lot of you are aming this man out to be a dangerous psychopath.

I am not condoning what he did to Poppies' ds, but it sounds to me like a loss of temper and he is not the only person in the world to have a temper or to not like children.

DumbledoresGirl · 03/12/2006 16:55

Sorry, distracted by my ds now. My post should say Making this man

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/12/2006 17:12

Many abusers are very plausible on the surface and many violent men are also angry.

All I can say is that this is not the first time he has lashed out in such a manner towards his relatives children.

If he has a problem with temper then he should acknowledge that and seek help for that if he has not already done so. However if he chooses not to then this is down to him.

Why has he not apologised to this family for his actions?.

I reiterate there is NO excuse. Lots of people have "bad" childhoods, depression, panic attacks, temper issues, using the line, "children wind me up" but these are no reasons or excuses to lash out in such a manner towards anyone least of all a child who was six at the time. He picked on someone who could not fight back.

DumbledoresGirl · 03/12/2006 17:17

Oh yes I agree absolutely with your last post Attila.

But, it isn't really Poppies' job to get him to seek the help he needs. It doesn't sound as though she is very close to him - she has not seen him for 3 years. It is more a job for her sister.

Meanwhile, Poppies has the dilemma about what to do on christmas afternoon. I think she should just let the man in to her home and make sure he is not left alone with her children.

JustUsTwo · 03/12/2006 17:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DumbledoresGirl · 03/12/2006 17:28

So Poppies has someone in her fmaily who has never apologised for something he has done. Blimey, is she the only one?

JustUsTwo · 03/12/2006 17:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DumbledoresGirl · 03/12/2006 17:32

Yes I do too.

But I wonder at people telling Poppies to cause a major upset to her whole family now. I think the time to do it was 3 years ago and she did indeed ring her sister then and talked it through.

Now 3 years down the line, I think it is time to move on, but definitely not let the man alone with the children.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/12/2006 17:34

Hi DumbledoresGirl,

Re your comments:-
"But, it isn't really Poppies' job to get him to seek the help he needs. It doesn't sound as though she is very close to him - she has not seen him for 3 years. It is more a job for her sister".

Its his issues thus his responsibility. He and no-one else is responsible for his actions. Poppies still remembers the incident from three years ago. To date this man has not apologised and his wife implied that it was Poppies's DS's fault for "winding him up". I would not want either of them around the house on any day let alone Christmas Day afternoon. It is a time for families but these two gave up that right to be a part of their family the day her son was attacked.
His wife went on to defend her husband's actions!!.

"Meanwhile, Poppies has the dilemma about what to do on christmas afternoon. I think she should just let the man in to her home and make sure he is not left alone with her children".

Many others would not agree with you. Parents get distracted espcially on a busy Christmas Day afternoon so it may well come to pass that parents and child are separated. There is good reason why this man has not seen Poppies children for the last three years and thus she should stand firm. Her childrens safety is paramount and no other consideration thus needs to be made. Poppies cannot take the risk that this will not happen again; I reiterate this is repeated behaviour shown towards his relatives children. If he (god forbid)lashed out again in such a manner it will happen so fast as to not be preventable.

DumbledoresGirl · 03/12/2006 17:37

But you see Attila, now you are making him sound like a psychopath, ready to fly off the handle at the slightest provocation, even looking for his chance to be alone with ds so he can throttle him again. If that is indeed what he is like, then no Poppies should not let him through her door, but do you really think that is what he is like? I just imagine he is a grumpy oldish man who does not like kids, does not like his wife's family maybe, certainly does not like social gatherings - a complete weirdo, yes, but not a live wire just waiting to explode again.

Just my opinion.

FestiveFrex · 03/12/2006 17:38

Poppies, how does your other sister feel about all this? Does she know that he is going to be there on Christmas Day? After all, you said she has had nothing to do with him since he hit her child.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/12/2006 17:38

"She did indeed ring her sister then and talked it through"

For one hour and a half and the sister still did not get the crux of the matter. She said that it was Poppies DS's fault for winding him up!!.

Nice people - not - to have over at Christmas I think.

Just because they're family does not mean to say they can get away with such behaviours. Their right to be a part of Poppies Christmas expired the day he attacked her son and was defended for doing so.

wakeupandsmellthecoffee · 03/12/2006 17:39

But what message is this sending to her DS if she lets this man into his home . The place he is supposed to feel safe ?

DumbledoresGirl · 03/12/2006 17:40

They might not be nice people (although I got the impression Popies does like her sister so I would not want to judge that) but they are family, Poppies certainly has a relationship with her sister that she wants to retain, and I think there are enough people here saying they would not have him through the door for me to feel the opposite argument might have a point.

vitomum · 03/12/2006 17:41

good luck with the phone call poppies. your mum etc must understand when they hear the whole situtaion. Surely withdrawing an invite to your BIL is less of a social 'faux pas' than physically assaulting your nieces and nephews. Your family simply must see this situation as his doing, not yours.

JustUsTwo · 03/12/2006 17:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Avalon · 03/12/2006 17:43

DumbledoresGirl - it would never be 'time to move on' for me if a relative did this to my child.

DumbledoresGirl · 03/12/2006 17:46

OK, I am bowing out of this now. I am not necessarily disagreeing with anyone here about the BIL's actions. I just hate the way the advice on Mumsnet has a tendency towards the most extreme reaction. Life isn't like that always. I just wanted Poppies to know she doesn't have to do anything she is not comfortable with.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/12/2006 17:47

Hi Dumbledores Girl,

Your opinion is noted.

I'm not making the guy out to be a pyscho but why do you think he lashed out by grabbing this boy of six (at the time) by the throat?. I would like to know. His wife said he was, "being wound up" by said child.

This man also went onto have two children of his own.

He may well be as you say a social misfit but equally he could well be just waiting to explode again to anyone unfortunate enough (child or adult) to get on the wrong side of him. Whatever the reasons for his actions no excuse can justify what happened to this child.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/12/2006 17:50

"I just hate the way the advice on Mumsnet has a tendency towards the most extreme reaction".

Oh dear god. A child was held by the throat and thrown across the room by a relative who lost his temper. I am not going to pussyfoot around here.

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